Need your viewpoint on this guy. Regarding to what the way he treats his past 'One night stand', just based on this ONS situation only.

[thestairs]

Hi, I'm very sorry; this is a long-winded wordy post. Warning: very LONGGG post ahead..
I know it going to be hard to read it all, but please please read through the whole post. I really want to hear your viewpoint, what you think of this guy. Regarding to what he did, the way he treats his past 'One night stand'.. Especially the bold part in the bracket. Please read the bold part in the bracket throughly, it very important (it about what he did in the ONS, and the way he treats the ONS).
I need your viewpoints/inputs, anything on what you think on this guy based on this ONS situation only. Just based on this single situation only, what you think about a guy like him? As in what does it say about his character, what it say about him based on this stituation only--what he did on the ONS and the way he treats the ONS.

okay, The situation: In all fairness to him, it happened 10-11 years ago. This happened a decade ago when when he 20 (he 30 now).
What happened was a decade ago/back in his college age days, when he was single; he had 2 "One night stand" condom on sex.. It was just the 'purely' physical sex, zero emotions into it. It was just two people wants to get into each other pants for the physical sex.

He said he have zero feelings for those ONS girls. It was a one time thing where both parties agree to the arrangement of the physical sex, and he leaves afterwards.. He make it clear in the begining that he will not stay the night, he will not call, he will not keep in touch.
He also make it clear that he doesn't want a relationship, he doesn't even want 'friends with benefits'. He just want the physical sex (so does the girl). The ONS girl agree with that arrangement.
The girl and him both want the physical sex, there No emotions involved.

I understand that he doesn't want a baby at the college age, and he doesn't want to pay for child support, so on his ONS he always wear a condom. This agree with him that he do the right thing to use safe sex and protect himself.. I guess he smart, he sure saw alot of guys with baby mama drama out there, so he make sure not to get himself in to the position like those guys.
Safe sex sure help avoid alot of headache and drama, especially when you not ready for a baby.

He said he doesn't do anything wrong because he make it very clear in the beginning that the arrangement was: purely physical sex--condom on, and he leave right after sex; the girl agree to it.. It simply just two people who wants to get into each other pants.
The ONS girl agree with the arrangement. Both parties agree with the arrangement, that was why the ONS happened.. He woudn't have the ONS if the girl didn't agree with the arrangement. It about fairness to himself and fairness to the girl.

He believe in fairness, and he wants to be fair to the girl. He doesn't want to give the girl false hope.. He make it very clear he doesn't want to be in a relationship, and he Not looking for a relationship. The ONS happened because the girl agree to the arrangement, he make it very clear in the begining; he not leading her on. He didn't do anything wrong.
When he doesn't want a relationship, he will honestly say he doesn't want a relationship. He said he will not give give a girl hope when it isn't hope there.

okay, fine. BUT here what I find him cold and cruel. Picture this okay, so basically on those two ONS of his--He had sex with the ONS girl, jerk it off into his condom. And leave right after sex, go on with his street life like nothing happened.. He doesn't stay the night, he doesn't call, doesn't keep in touch with those girls. He leave right after sex, he doesn't care about being nice or being civil.
I understand that he wear a condom for safety for protection, he doesn't want to pay for child support blah blah.. But the thing is he so careful to the point that before he climax--with the condom on he still pull out. And he finish himself off in the condom/jerk it off into the condom; outside no where near the girl's vagina.
Basically he doesn't trust the ONS girl/the 2 ONS he had in his past.
Heck, he probably doesn't even trust the condom because with condom on he still pull out, and ejaculate outside (he pull out, and then finish himself off in the condom all outside).

Yes, you read it right. He wear a condom but he still careful to the point to make sure that he pull out before climax; pull out with the condom still on, and finishes by hand help himself. He jerk it off into the condom after he already pull out.
Heck, the condom still on but he still pull out; and he finishes by hand--jerk it off into the condom all outside. His ejaculate was no where near her vagina, he that beep careful. I feel that he so cold and cruel.
And he leave afterwards. Yes, he leave right after sex, go on with his life like nothing happened. No feelings No emotions involved. it was just the 'purely' physical sex.
Isn't all that just cold and cruel? I know it his body. I know he extra careful but he selfish, it all about himself. I feel that he doesn't trust the 2 ONS girls at all. All he care about is him, him and him only.

From what he did with his past 2 ONS; I feel that he wants to avoid the chance of pregnancy at any cost, like avoid it avoid it.. Eventhough it a one time thing sex with condom on, but he still that beep careful.
I asked him if he miss those ONS girls or think of them? He said No, he doesn't miss them, he doesn't think of them.. Physical sex is just physical sex, there no emotional attachment to it. He doesn't even know those girls.
I asked if he text, phone or keep in touch with those ONS girl afterwards? He said No, he said doesn't see the needs to because he make it very clear in the beginning already. He not looking for relationship, he not even looking for 'FWB'. So what is the need of text phone, or keep in touch with them?
What he wants was just he physical sex, (so does those girls). After done with sex, leaves afterwards go on with his life. The girls agree with the arragement and agree with him leave after sex, therefore he doesn't own that two ONS girls anything.

I asked him; "what IF"--what IF the ONS girl get pregnant, what would he do. I asked him would he married her?
You know how cold his answer is? He said No, he said he will not married her.. Because he doesn't love her, he doesn't have any feelings for her, he doesn't even know her. He will not married the girl just because she got pregnant from the one time ONS. (Given how careful he is even with condom on; she got pregnant from that one single time sex with condom on is a No).
He won't married any girl, unless he loves her. Unless he loves and have feelings for the girl; or else he won't married her. He wants to be fair to himself and as well be fair to the girl.. To him it all about his fairness and balance scale.

Anyways, I continue asked him answer me, "what IF"--the what IF question if she got pregnant then what? He answered, he said he will pay for child support, be in the baby life, spend time with the baby, buy whatever things the baby needs. He will will fullfill his role as a father.. But between him and that ONS girl: it simply he the dad of the baby, and she the mom of the baby; that's all to it.
He will Not married her, he will Not have sex with her again.. It a ONS, it a one time thing sex and it will remained a one time thing; there won't be a second time sex.
He will fulfill his duty as a father; pay for child support, be in the baby life, buy whatever things the baby need, watch the baby grow up.. But that it, he won't married the ONS girl, and he won't sleep with her again: ONS will remain a ONS--one time sex.
He wish her all the happiness; find her man/her husband, find her happiness.. But him--he won't married her, because he doesn't love her. He wants to be fair to himself, fair to her, and fair to the baby.

That his fairness scale, probably the point of extreme? Seem like this guy is very black and white in his views, there no grey line, he doesn't blur the line. It rather black or white, not in between.
He doesn't let girls or physical sex influence his decision. He can clearly separate love, feelings, emotions, sex.. He sure can separate the ONS purely physical sex, separate it from the sex with emotional attachment. He can damn clearly separate if he loves the girl or not.
Like for example with his ONS above; when there no feelings then there no feelings, he very straightforward, he make it very clear since.. It very black and white to him, it so easy and so clearly to him.
And he doesn't need any girls to stroke his ego, he doesn't need a girl to be in relationship with. He confident in himself.. Frankly, I think he is a cold and self-centered guy. I feel that he not capable of love any girl, I'm not sure if he capable of truly love any girl.
What do you see from this guy? Based on waht he do in his ONS/how he treast his ONS, especially the bold part in the bracket.. Isn't he kind of cold, self-centered, cocky? I feel that he not capable of truely love any girl. Can you find yourself be his girl, be with a guy like him? Be his girl--be his woman (especially knowing the way he treats his past ONS, knowing those stuff above about him).

Anyways, about him want me to quit my Retail job, and find an Office job. Yes, I posted ask for advice on this before.
It this below"
I only have a High school degree, No college. My jobs are all minimum wage jobs.
Longest job I work is Retail. First I work in the Women clothing, then I transfer to Shoe department, because it give me commission on top of hourly pay.
Anyways, in Retail (Shoe department). In Retail you have to be on your feet, climing on ladders get shoe, running back and forth cashier register, getting get shoe for customers to try on, etc...
It not always busy. There times when it slow, but it sure does get very busy when the Thanksgiving/Christmas holiday season.

My husband he always let me have things 'my' way; he doesn't argue or disagree with me. So far there no fighting or arguments in our marriage yet. It been a smooth and peaceful marriage, so peaceful that ugh.. sometimes I asked myself, if our marriage is normal or not?

He is a laid-back guy, 90% of the time he let me have things 'my' way. But when it comes to things that really matter, he does voice his opinion and said his needs.. He said that I should try to get an Office job instead of keep work in Shoe Retail.
An office job like receptionist, any office/desk type of job. As long as I be sitting instead of running around on my feet all day.

And his reasons are below:
--- An Office job will be better for me During pregnancy and Post-pregnancy.. He doesn't want me to carry a pregnant stomach and work in Shoe Retail.
I did promise him that we will have a baby. But I keep pushing it back, and he been waiting patiencely for me to give him a baby.
I know I married him. We married, eventually we going to have a baby.. I can't just keep him childless for the rest of his life. And I know he really really want a baby to complete our little family.
He said he wants me to work at office/desk job, because he doesn't want me to carry my pregnant stomach be on my feet getting shoe for people to try on, like how my Retail job was.

--- He said also because I know how to use well Microsoft Office: Microsoft Excel, PowerPoint and Word.
And I type over 120 word per minute. And I speak fluently 3 languages (Chinese, Vietnamese and English). He thinks I should use those skills to get an office job.
I did work at at a Chinese dentist office once; it was a long time ago in the past, but that does count as I had some experience.

He thinks I should use my skills to start finding an office job now, start working now. I guess it because it will take time to earn Maternity leave? He keep insist and insist me to get an office job. He doesn't want me to work in Shoe Retail anymore.
We live in California, and there ALOT of Asian population here. So there alot of Vietnamese and Chinese doctordentistbusiness office here.

--- My husband work long hours. He work 2 jobs, a full time job and a part time job.
He wants us to spend time together as much as we can. We always eat dinner together.. But when Retail job get very busy during Thanksgiving Black Friday/Christmas time, I will have to work late and miss out dinner with him.
He doesn't want me to work late during holiday time in Retail. He wants me to be at home and spend holiday family time with him.
Office job I get weekend off. I can spend more time with him, and cook dinner Chinese/Vietnamese food for him.

--- He said he make enough for me to stay home. If I want to, I can stay home. TTC and give birth to a healthy baby. Stay home care for the baby.
He far far from rich. But he does make 4x times more than me, and he also get yearly raise. Annual raise, and great benefits.. And when he work on holidays/overtime will be paid extra, at double time and a half; so it not bad at all considering the pay.
Financially it not a problem.. We have decent amount of saving. We both are Debt-free, zero debt. And we both are not big spender.

He knows my childhood background. Back then when I left my mother house. I work at Chinese noodle restaurant washing dishes in the back, and do Food server.
He said he does NOT want me to do those type of jobs anymore (wash dishes/food server).. Same with he does NOT want me to work in Shoe retail climbing on ladders getting shoe for people to try on.
He said back then when I left my mother house; I was in a situation where I didn't have a choice, so I have to work those jobs for to survival. I was alone by myself..
BUT now I have a choice, now I have him. He said he make enough money for me to stay home.. He said stay home is a choice I have, an option I have.

But IF I refused to stay home, or refused to work at Office/desk job.
--- He said I can go back to school. He said he financially support me to go back to school.
I only have a High School diploma. I'm a College dropped-out, so No college degree.
I did went to college for a short time before up dropped-out.. My credits in college were just from took Calculus, Java and C++ classes. I don't know what can I do with those various classes credits for a degree.
Welp, I refused the go back to school option.. I'm 31 this year, I really don't want to be sitting in class with college age students much younger than me.

--- Then he said I can take a trip to China visit my grandma and relax. He knows I miss my grandma alot.
I immigrant with my family to USA at age 12.. It been almost two decades in U.S, and I only went back to China to visit one time.
My family is in U.S; but my grandmother still in China by her choice, she prefers stay in China due to her old age.
My husband say said if I want to take a vacation, if it helps me relax. He said he pay for my whole trip back to China to visit my grandmother.

He gives me quite some options; including financially pay for my college if I want to go back to college, and my trip back to visit China..
I don't think that is controlling right? Because I heard that controlling men will always want to keep their wife by their side. They will not give their wife options, let alone willing to pay for her trip back to visit her grandma in China.

I dunno. I don't feel that he controlling.. BUT then my normal meter is broken severely, so maybe I don't see it clearly enough?
He knows all about my abusive childhood. He knows how much I hate to be controlled. He knows how much freedom and independent is to me.. He let me work; it just that he wants me to work in an Office job where I can sit, instead of running around on my feet like in Shoe Retail.

Don't ever go on Just a Minute.

Your meter is broken .

He's incredibly controlling.

Anyways, thank you Ms. Cabrinha, thank you for give me another perspective on my husband.
I post about him ALOT in BabyCenter, because I'm an active poster in there. And BabyCeter is an U.S site.
Actually there a whole thread about him that I disect him into pieces. Including all his quirks, all his habits, and all the things he do for me.
It his thread here, I guess if you have a few minutes you can read through it, or perhaps comment on it (if you have an account in BabyCenter).

The ladies in BabyCenter actually said I bully him, they said I treats him terrible. In fact, they tell me to leave him, set him free so he can go find another girl that know how to appreciate him.

community.babycenter.com/post/a61934992/?cpg=11#c2527612018
It this thread about him here, it like 15 pages, and all the response there ladies tell me to leave him. Because I clearly don't know how to appreciate him, so let him go free. Another girl will appreciate him.

Anyways, this is all to my relationship problems. Perhaps when ever you have the time, you can read through that thread (link above), and make your decission whether if he is the controlling one. Or it me that don't know how to appreciate him.

Thank you for everyone advice. I love this forum, because everyone is nice to me. Eventhough I'm just a girl from U.S.A and English is my third language. But everyone here still nice to me and help give me advice.
I really appreciate it.
I do read this board alot, I just don't post here as much as I post in BabyCenter.
I'm sorry if I'm in any way bothering anyone.
I know I have alot of problems to work through, including my emotional childhood baggage.
I will continue read this thread, thank you everyone for your advice. Thank you again Ms. Cabrinha, if you have the time perhaps you can help read that thread of mine in BabyCenter, and see if you agree with those ladies viewpoint.
Those ladies said I'm the one that BULLY him. I'm the one that emotionally abuse him. I'm the one that don't know how to appreciate him.
And I need to leave him, so he can go find another girl who appreciate him for who he is.
I guess different people see things and interpret it differently. Thank you again though.

I don't know Xue, I really don't.
You write about his patience and understanding, about letting you have what you want, about the calmness and consistency for 5 years of knowing him.
He might be a wonderful man - but I know he wouldn't be a wonderful man for me.

Your childhood was abusive, I'm sorry you are in so much pain from it

But I worry you put him so much on a pedestal. You write elsewhere that he is so wonderful to accept no in laws from you, that your children together won't have some grandparents. Well, I don't see my parents. I hasn't ever occurred to me that my fiancé is wonderful for still wanting to marry me despite me not giving him in laws. My fiancé loves me for me - it's totally irrelevant that I don't see my parents. I think he's wonderful but not for that reason! He's not on a pedestal.

Your mother was not a good mother to you. And your father did not stop her, so he was also not a good father to you. Perhaps your obsession with whether your husband would do the right and honourable thing* marrying a pregnant ONS is because you have been let down so badly by your parents not behaving correctly, you're trying to find every way you can to test that your husband would behave correctly.

(*i don't think marrying a mythical pregnant ONS is the honourable thing, but supporting the baby is)

You spoke of testing him in another post, making him wait. Perhaps you have to test him because your parents failed the test so badly, it becomes so important to you to check that he will not.

I think you should continue with therapy but if current counsellor doesn't help, try another. It's not easy - even the best counsellor just may not be a fit for you. Don't be afraid to talk to more than one and see what feels helpful. A Chinese/Vietnamese counsellor may understand your cultural influences more, but don't rule out a 'western' counsellor - abuse is abuse.

I think when you have had more time to deal with the past, you'll feel more confident to judge your feelings about your husband and his sexual history.

I'm turning round from earlier opinions of this relationship, heading quickly towards the needle going off the scale for danger. None of this is right including being primed for jobs that you can do while/after pregnancy.

I apologise OP. I misread totally at the start and now feel that you are in a total trap. Your gut instinct made you post here and you were right. This isn't right. Maybe your meter isn't broken; maybe we all need to give your meter space to speak. What are you feeling, deep inside about this marriage?

Some controllers are so arrogant and sure of their position that they could send "their" women to Paradise Island and be sure of their return because they "own" them.

I think what jumps out at me is that you have a cross cultural marriage and despite bravely going against your culture and family to marry him you have not integrated too well into American culture and don't seem to understand American values too well.

I know SF quite well and the Americans seem to have this system of 'neighbourhoods'. It is entirely possible to move from Chinese culture in China to a 'little China' in the US where you never need to learn about American culture and live virtually as you did in China with Chinese people.

This is fine if you marry a Chinese man, but you haven't. Having married an African American I think you need to start stepping away from Chinese culture, at least in terms of your understanding.

It could well be that this ONS issue bothers you so much because it is such an alien thing to you. If you are more open to really understanding American culture you may come to appreciate what people here have said about his attitude to the ONS not being cold and cruel but actually quite responsible and respectful. It might reduce your anxiety if you understand the context a bit more.

And also on the putting him on a pedestal thing...

You seem to think he's wonderful because he accepts that you were a virgin and are still (in your opinion) inexperienced and learning.

That does not make him wonderful. Because there's nothing for him to accept. You were a virgin - so what? No big deal.

He might be wonderful.
But he is not wonderful because he accepts you having no parents.
And he is not wonderful because he accepted you being a virgin (we all were once!)
He isn't wonderful because he does the laundry.

Your husband is your equal. He is not a god.

You are a bright woman. You have come through an abusive childhood and struck out on your own. You have supported yourself. You have worked hard in demanding jobs for low pay. You type a thousand words a minute! You speak 3 languages. You cope with cross cultural pressures I can only shudder at the stress of. You're friendly, polite, and come across as quirky in the most delightful way!

he is not better than you

However worthless your mother made you feel, you are not worthless.

You are too hung up on his ONSs!
Those don't matter, you can't stop asking him about them.
What does matter is why you're hung up on them - and that is something you'll find out in time through therapy, not through going over and over them with him.

And I don't think all of these things like the submissiveness and apologising for lack of in laws is necessarily coming from him being controlling. A lot of that could be consistent with coming from a strict Chinese culture.

You've made a brave choice to throw out some of the negative aspects of that culture by marrying him. All cultures have negative aspects but I think you would benefit from looking at some more negative aspects of Chinese culture and throwing them out too.

Getting away from abusive parents who treat you badly is an achievement not a flaw.

Wow

morris

OP you must have worn away the ends of your fingertips by now, surely?

Seriously though, this thread is so utterly identifying that someone you know is, at some point, going to find it. I'd get it deleted for that reason. Good luck with all your troubles.

Thank you Ms. Offred. Thank you for understanding.
I know you have no time anways, but every complains about him is all in this thread of mine in BabyCenter (in blue link url is in the above post).
Seem like none of the ladies there could find anything wrong with him. They all said it MY problem, and that IF I don't know how to appreciate him. Then leave him, so he can go find another girl who will.

I can't find myself to leave him, because as much as I hate to admit it. But I love him.
I'm just running away from myself. I tell myself everday that I can't love him. I'm constantly finding faults in him so I can have a reason NOT to love him.
For example like the ONS, I'm finding faults in him.. I dunno if it me subconciously trying to look for reason to match up with my Chinese parents disapproval of him.
They don't know anything about him, they refused to met him, they discriminate against him for the past 5 years I know him.
NEVER once they try to met him in the 5 years, this is an indirect slap in his face that they disrespect him.
I know I can't change how my mother thinks. I have learn to accept that this is what it is, my parents will never accept me married to an African guy from Africa.

Anyways, I need to find an American (western) therapist to help me fix all these issues, especially my emotional childhood baggage.

I don't want to leave my husband, I can't find myself to leave him because I love him. I probably don't know what love is, because he is my first in everything. But he treats me really well. Perhaps as day goes by, I grow to love him every day.
I really hope I can find a way to enjoy my marriage. Find way to get over my hung up with his ONS.
The thing is I don't even love myself, I just can't find myself to accept anyone that love me. I have zero self-worth due to my childhood of how my mother treats me.
As an adult, I have zero self-worth. I just can't find myself to accept that there actually a guy who loves me for who I am. He loves me, but I can't accept his love.
I need to find a way to accept my husband, accept his love for me, then perhaps I can find happiness inside myself.

"For all his grand behaviour - maybe because of it? - you don't trust that he's capable of love. That makes me think that you don't feel loved by him."

You didn't answer this, although you give so much detail about the tiny little facts that make up your life and marriage.

I notice you like to write about behaviors, and facts, a lot. I wonder why? Why do you need to spend your time thinking about all these overwhelming tiny micro-facts?

It feels like you are drowning in all these descriptions and details. And I wonder what you are desperate to make sense of? What are you trying to understand?

Your past? Your husband? Your marriage? Your self?

All of it?

Reading your posts, I feel so much confusion, and how over whelming it is to dwell on the detail and never come up for air. I wonder why you are searching through all this again and again. And I wonder if you are having problems prioritizing or making meaning out of all these details? And of course, I wonder why that might be?

If your current counsellor isn't helping you make progress, then I do think finding another one might be good. You don't sound ok. And there's a limit to how much anyone on the Internet can tell you, as we can only go on what you tell us, and for whatever reason, you can't find your way through it.

I think you need a counsellor that understands different cultures. Not one that pulls you back into a traditional Chinese background and can only see the world from that perspective - this won't help you to understand your husbands African culture and upbringing, or the life you have now.

i also think you need someone very experienced in helping survivors of abuse. You need to work on yourself and build all the stuff that you didn't get a chance to when you were younger. If you can heal yourself a bit, you may find it easier to work out what's happening in your life.

Good luck

Xue, I need to sleep now - it is very late in the UK
But I wish you luck

You know exactly what you need to do, you said it. You need to love yourself so you can accept love from others.

So please - see another counsellor. See 5. See 10. Different people and different styles until you find one that helps you to feel what you know should be true - that you are worth so much.

I think you should consider not asking for opinions on babycenter. The internet is not always a kind place. These people do not know you, your past, your culture. Even why you explain, they are not experienced counsellors. Listening to them tell you that he is better than you is the worst thing to do when your self worth is low.

Put your time and mental energy into counselling, not into too much internet time

You can learn love yourself, and accept love. It will take time and effort and it will be hard. But that's not a challenge that should scare you off, you who has pulled themselves through so much already. You are strong Xue, use your strength to learn to love yourself.

Agree with Cabrinha on so much here!

I read the babycenter thread on your really terrible upbringing. I think a lot of what you're struggling with now has its roots in your past.

I also read bits of your other thread. What you are describing your husband doing is called stone walling. It's not a nice thing to do. As you would know, being on the receiving end of it.

Ignore posters who like reducing everything to hero/ villain Hollywood story lines. They love to decide instantly whether you are the suffering hero or the evil one. Life isn't as simple as that.

I don't think you need to leave your husband and certainly not because he's too good for you!
I haven't read your baby centre link but I agree that finding an American counsellor and some friends! You need good women friends to talk some of this over.
Don't stop posting on mumsnet though even if some posters were rude to you including me, sorry but maybe just try to cut too much detail out of the posts because all that stuff makes them quite hard to read.