Contacted by the OW?

[KaraKaraKodi]

I'm caught up in the middle of an extremely complicated situation - I can't say too much as would be identifying but let's say I have very strong ties of loyalty (some are blood ties) to almost everyone involved in this situation. (to be clear, I am not the OW.)

MM is a serial philander and has been throughout a long term marriage (10 yrs+ & children) - ranging from one night stands to short term affairs to longer term affairs. He's not otherwise a bad character; sex is his flaw. W is unaware save for (I think) a one off time a really, really long time ago. W is about to take some very serious life changing decisions which she really needs to know about her husband's behaviour to make an informed choice.

OW (one of the longer term affairs this MM has had but so far as I know not currently going on; they remain close/in contact though) wants to write to the W to tell her what the MM has been up to so she is fully informed.

OW is herself married and does not want to leave her marriage (her husband knew about her affair with MM but forgave her) - so this isn't likely to be a "trying to split them up" attempt. It maybe she has an other agenda that I don't know about - eg. assuaging guilt, revenge on MM - but thats not what she says.

I 100% agree that the W should know about the MM's behaviour before she makes these decisions although I think that the OW writing to the W is a bad idea and a waste of time. I'm looking for anyone who has had a similar experience to give me suggestions to persuade the OW not to do this or not to do it in this way. I think it will hurt the W, cause marital disruption at a difficult time but ultimately not be believed.

Has anyone here been in a situation where they received a letter or email or other contact from an OW or another person or anonymously saying their husband had an affair?

If so , how did you react? Did you ignore it and dismiss it as malicious? Did you believe it? Was there any difference in reaction depending on the content (was there any proof in the letter? dates, times, photos?) Were you emotionally hurt by the content? (I assume it is impossible not to be) What was it that was most hurtful and should be avoided (-eg. declarations of "just sex" or "love" - not sure which is worse)?

Assuming OWs going to do it anyway , if you were advising (I know this sounds crazy) an OW or third party who wanted to tell you about an affair for your own interests - to protect you, what is the best way to express it to cause the least emotional upset but at the same time be believed?

I think OW shouldn't do it, but if she is, it would be really pointless to hurt the W if ultimately she doesn't believe the reality of it.

[To put some context here so it doesn't sound overly cryptic, the MM is someone I have strong loyalty to otherwise, I think I would tell the W directly myself. I have told the MM he should tell his W now but he has said he will not. It is in his personal interests not to for reasons beyond maintaining the marriage.]

Any other advice? Sorry so long.

Fanny

That said, poor Tess - Vacuous Vernon has The Script off pat..

I don't think your concern about this has anything to do with whether W will believe an informant. That makes no sense. Deep down you don't want her told.

You do realise, that the OW is going to drop you in the shit here? If the Wife says "I don't believe you", the OW is going to say "KaraKara knows it's true : ask her"

So tbh, you'd be better off telling the W sooner, rather than later.

In any case, you must know deep down, that she needs to know. The only question is, can you step up and do it, do you have the guts? Horrible, I know, but she needs to know.

I agree, if people find out that you knew, you could have a lot of haters.

I'm going to answer your question without going too into the rights and wrongs, I think that's been done!
If I were the W I WOULD want to know and I think the best way is a short factual phone call from OW with times, dates, locations which will leave W with no doubt because the guessing and wondering are sometimes the worst bits. If you are in a position to advise OW I'd tell her to get straight to the point, give evidence (and follow up with screenshots if she has them, just the ones required to prove it and tell W she will do so) then never contact het again. I think the W has a right to know and whilst it will of course be painful it's better to be blunt, everything on a plate painful than evasive, leaving her questioning it painful.

Thanks *Thisismyfirsttime" that is helpful.

if people find out that you knew, you could have a lot of haters.

I've already said I'm not going to tell the W. I've also said she will completely understand why I did not say anything. besides - I don't have any actual "proof" myself of the sort that the OW will have.

OP - can you ensure what the OW says and when - so that you can be around to pick up the pieces?

How will you behave with the W once she has been told? Will you support her or avoid her? Will you just keep out of the way? Will you still be conflicted with loyalties to MM?

It seems unanimous that she should be told and with enough and appropriate evidence that this is real.

Once the cat is out of the bag with this one affair - will you fill her in on all of the others?

What do you think she will do ? Would she forgive him this "one" affair.

What do you think the MM will do? Following the script? Does the W need to know the script?

Will the MM get a heads up?

As some people up-thread have suggested, if the OW has screenshots of texts or online messages that incontrovertibly prove what's been going on, then the W will have to accept what she says is true. Is this the kind of thing you mean?

Well let the OW tell her then poor W.

The OW will need to offer proof and/or dates/times of meetings, to clarify that she's not being untruthful. She should try hard to avoid sounding patronising or faux-sympathetic, and should refrain from making excuses for her poor behaviour.

I really hope you don't get caught in the crossfire OP. You seem very sure that the wife will not resent you for having kept quiet; I hope your confidence isn't misplaced. If the children are your relatives, a wounded and vengeful mother could potentially demonstrate her anger and disappointment with you by limiting contact. I hope that won't happen.

I think my nearly-ex SIL s in a similar position to you.

My soon to be ex husband was having an affair and confided in his sister. He called her regularly for months and months to talk about it.

His sister knew that I thought we were having some problems but were working on them. Eventually the truth came out (OW's husband told me) and we are now divorcing.

My SIL got in touch and said she hoped we could be friends. How much she loved and valued me and the children and other bullshit. I never responded and never want anything to do with her again. She knew the hell he was putting me through, and it was hell, knowing something was wrong but not what it was. But she had "loyalty" to her brother.

Interestingly, they have since fallen out and have had nothing to do with each other for months. The deceit took its toll on their relationship too.

I actually do hope you get caught in the crossfire OP, I'm not quite sure how you can live with yourself knowing that another woman is being so royally shat on yet here you are, expecting someone else to do the dirty work.

Don't bet that the W will understand, she may just knock you the fuck out.

OP, I think you are selectively reading threads to reinforce your prejudices about how wives typically react. I don't mean that to get at you, just that its common psychological phenomena that you see all the time and for all sorts of things where opinions can vary e.g. people tend to self-select newspaper articles that back up their own political beliefs and then get the idea into their heads that almost everyone in the world holds similar views.

If you are contacted by someone who you are a lot less close to than you husband (which is 99.9% of the world) and you are told something hideous about your husband that you did not know, then its very hard to mentally accept that you've been completely deceived and it takes a little time to get your head around it. Think about what happens when a policeman knocks on the door and says there has been a car crash and someone you love has died. You wouldn't just say I believe you. You'd sit there saying "No, you've made a mistake. I only spoke to them two hours ago. They'll be home soon." Then it begins to sink in and then you start to believe.

Its the same with women who are told they've been cheated on. At first, its hard to take in. You look for other explanations but sooner, or later, you realise its true. Sometimes, you aren't sure but at the very least it puts doubt in your mind and you become more watchful, even if only to prove to yourself that its not true.

Speaking from personal experience, finding out that the man you love has cheated on you is just awful. Its worse than a death because the person who died didn't want to leave whereas being cheated on means that the person who you thought loves you doesn't love you and they've been using you (in everything you've ever done for them when you thought they did love you).

I did not find out from the OW, but I did speak to her later. She was sympathetic and I hated her for that. She had the audacity to come into my life, play her part in wrecking it and then when she saw how low I'd been knocked, she stood back and condescended to offer her sympathy!! I wanted her to be ashamed of what she'd done and realise how low it made her.

I understand (I think) why you won't tell the wife. I do not like the idea of playing God with other people's lives but all of you who know about this MM's true commitment to his marriage and who are colluding to prevent the wife having control of her own life should at least take care of her. If you won't let her make good decisions for herself, then make good decisions for her. Force the MM to stop having affairs and tell him to do everything he possibly can to dissuade his wife from making a bad situation worse by doing this thing she's about to decide to do.

I do think the wife should be told though, just to be clear. I am only talking about a poor second best.

If you don't have 'proof' how do you know he's having affairs?

Surely what the OW has told you is enough proof?

In almost every situation I would counsel to keep out of someone's marriage but this is different.

You are overly involved and you know far too much about the private lives of those involved.

If you care about the W, and this huge decision she's facing, then you must tell her. Your relationship with the MM was compromised, by him, the second he told you that he refused to tell his wife.

I think you are duty bound to tell her yourself. In that way, you can control the timing and manner.

Letting an OW deliver such news? How cowardly, cruel and dangerous.

JassyAlconleigh - maybe the Op is the MM's mother? If she knows so much, including the one night stands, then he's obviously being very open with the OP about what he's up to.

If my son did this (they are still only 12 and 13 so too early to be possible), then I'd be horrified at how I'd brought them up. However, my first loyalty would be to them, so i'd be looking to fix as best i could the mistakes I'd obviously made in their parenting but I wouldn't prioritise their wives over them. I know some would say i should, but I know I couldn't.

I keep getting this imagine in my head, since reading the first post, that when you write KaraKaraKodi that some are blood ties (i.e. some = plural) what you are saying is that your son had an affair with his cousin!

Please tell me that this bit is not correct so that I can get it out of my head!

OP, if you know for a fact that MM has had numerous affairs etc while his wife is at home dutifully looking after the children then I honestly do not know how you can look her straight in the eye. It's dispicable.

I couldn't care less whether MM is your brother, son or Father Christmas, how do you live with yourself knowing what you know and yet you are adamant that it won't be you who puts the poor wife out of her misery?

Dreadful behaviour

OP,
You ask in your opening post what is the best way to express it to cause the least emotional upset but at the same time be believed?
How on earth can you look at 10 years of cheating and believe that it IS possible for this poor woman to be protected from emotional upset?
I hope that today is the day that one of this myriad of people who appear to be supporting and enabling this MM to continue to deceive his wife (and children) will finally step up and bring his dishonesty into the open.
I also hope that those who have maintained these secrets for so many years will ponder on why they prioritised the MMs secrets (blood is thicker than water, he's really a good guy, etc) and failed to think about the needs of the cheated partner and children.
OP - why on earth are you trying so hard to influence what the OW says?
This poor woman is about to discover that not only has he been cheating throughout her marriage, but that people knew and condoned it with their silence. And no - I don't think she'll 'understand why you didn't say anything." I think it will add to her sense of betrayal and profound loss that everyone in her family knew and no one cared enough about her and the children to say anything about it. There's a really screwed up set of values and assumptions in all this that of course it's OK not to tell on 10 years of affairs and cheating. This poor woman to be caught up in such a toxic family.
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good 'men' to do nothing"

var

maybe the Op is the MM's mother?

I wondered that but then how is she so involved with and keen to influence the OW?

It sounds horribly unhealthy and overly complicated. Either the W needs the information to make this huge decision, in which case give it to her, or keep your counsel and remove yourself from the whole sorry mess.

It's the puppeteering that I find so distasteful. Nobody seems to be acting like an honest, kind, respectful adult here.

W is about to take some very serious life changing decisions which she really needs to know about her husband's behaviour to make an informed choice

I 100% agree that the W should know about the MM's behaviour before she makes these decisions

If nobody is going to tell the W about the MM's behaviour, is there any way you could talk to her to get her to reconsider or postpone the life changing decisions?

OW's motives for telling W actually sound more like compassion than anything to do with guilt or revenge.

JassyAlconleigh - I know. That's where I keep coming back to the multiple blood-relations. The op is the DM and the OW is her DD or her DN??? Yuk!

If MM is her son then the reason she is adamant she won't tell could be that she is scared she'll lose access to GC. She may well be backing the wrong horse if that is her motivation!

My ex dh had several "flings". The last OW that finally made me realise I had reached the end of the road was stupid enough to email him (i had access to his email), so I emailed her, told her what I thought of her and said that my ex dh was an arsehole who was only interested in a quick shag with anything in a skirt and she was welcome to him.

Six months later I got an email from her (by which time my ds and I had got on with our lives elsewhere) saying how right I had been and that he was a complete twat. How I laughed!

I would let the ow tell her.

I agree entirely with being very specific with details. So if you can encourage the ow to give dates , times money spent details etc ect.

I would go further and although hurtful encourage the ow to reveal any imtomate details she knows about the mm. For example I had sex with your h for 2 years. On one occasion we went to x hotel , it was on x date at y time. He told you he was visiting x. He wore his Ralph Lauren boxer shorts and has a mole on his left inner thigh.

When he wakes up he always does xyz.

What his wife does with this information is Upto her.

The mm has put you in a terrible position and as stated up thread is not a nice person.

Saying he only treats his wife this way because he likes sex is like saying the only reason I burgle old ladies homes is because I love having old vintage jewellery which you can't buy in the shops.