Sexually frustrated Husband

[Brightling]

It seems I'm married to one of those men who gets very moody when their intimacy needs aren't being met as often as they would like.

We've been married a significant amount of time. When we first met my sex drive was average and a few years and very young children later it's pretty much dwindled. I'm all touched out by the children. I am very unhappy with my post multiple pregnancies body. I'm tired. All I want is to be able to go to bed and sleep without being propositioned. It's not every night but it happens frequently enough for it to be considered badgering. Actually what I would like also is for the "no I'm not up for it tonight" to be received with "ok let's sleep" rather than him raise his voice tell my I've got a problem, I need to see a therapist, I should stay off those websites (such as MN) and what's he supposed to do about HIS sexual needs as it sounds like he's supposed to have an affair if I'm not interested. He says he can't even cuddle me if I've said no as he finds it too difficult. Whenever I say none turns his back on me and I feel like I'm being punished for saying No.

I get that he is frustrated but I am not prepared to lay back and think of England. Sex is a privilege not a right. It's my body and if I don't want to I don't have to. Even though he says that he doesn't want me to do it for the sake of it I think he's BS'ing me. He tells me he's a nice person, a good partner, a good dad and that other couples are all having sex though he always refers to sex as making love.

When we are having an active sex life he is ridiculously happy and helpful and affectionate.

I can't stand the sulking behaviour when he's frustrated. He is a hands on father and he does pull his weight round the home. It's just the sex pressure pushing me away. It's getting to the point where I don't want to be intimate with him at all as any contact he sees as a green light to progress a cuddle or whatever is then met with a sulk when I say I don't want to continue.

He does make lots of effort making meals but I'm so cynical that All I can think about is that there is an expectancy at the end of the night which puts me on the defensive and then I end up causing an argument simply to avoid the strop that he will pull when I say I don't want to be intimate because it's only when I get cross about it that he will let it drop and quit going on and on and on about it.

I'm know my sex drive isn't what it was but the sulks and date nights are not helping one bit. I dread any meal or date night. I'm not even sure why I'm even posting.

Aire, are you actually reading Brightling's posts? Because I did not twist anything, I literally cut/paste her exact wording! Maybe you have done some word twisting yourself Aire:

1. You say she is here to sort this out, but here are her own words about why she's here: "The main point of my thread was about his attitude and sulking" "It's advice on how to communicate to him that his reactions are hurtful"

So she is here for ideas on how to reject him without having to deal with any negative consequences of long term ignoring her spouse's needs.
Please correct me if I've missed any posts where she is taking specific action (aside from a couple talks about his sulking) to sort this out.

2. I never said it would be her fault if he has an affair. I literally said it would NOT be justified, only that it would be common.

Taking snippets out of context is twisting it. Yes, she's wanting advice about his sulking because that is putting her off having more sex with him. As she has said multiple times.

Plenty of people have affairs when they're having lots of sex.

You on the other hand have come charging in declaring that they are sexually incompatible and need to split up. Despite them having young children and breast feeding. Yep, throw it all away as a bad job. Sod the kids and an otherwise happy marriage.

Of course the OP should be aware and have empathy that it is hard for her DH too. And yes it is a problem for both of them, not just her DH, that does need sorting otherwise the marriage might not survive. She shouldn't be under any illusions about that. But your 'advice' is crap.

Whoooooooooooooa right there!

Please feel free to locate exactly where I have said "please could anyone help me with ways that I can reject his advances?" And where have I said that I will never ever be having sex ever again with him?

David thank you.

Aire thank you too. You get where I am coming from. Other PP have too. Some of the comments and advice make me wonder if some are even reading what I've asked?

You can't win 'em all, Brightling. You certainly can't convince 'em all. But I do try sometimes

Brightling, see your Sat 02-Apr-16 19:11:18

"It's advice on how to communicate to him that his reactions are hurtful. I'm sure my rejection of him is equally painful."

Is this not you asking for better ways to reject him, while avoiding his negative reaction? I read this not as solution seeking, but as consequence avoidance.

You also said:
"I don't need advice on how to be intimate without it resulting in sex. Thanks all the same."
Several people had offered suggestions to be intimate with him, not necessarily involving PIV if you find that uncomfortable, you dismissed these ideas.

I never said that you said you'd never have sex with him again. I did use the term "sexless marriage" because the generally accepted definition is "sex about once in 5 weeks, or less" and isn't that the case for you right now?

"It's advice on how to communicate to him that his reactions are hurtful. I'm sure my rejection of him is equally painful."

Is this not you asking for better ways to reject him, while avoiding his negative reaction? No it isn't. This is the op realising that her rejecting her dh is hurtful to him...it's really easy, you just read what she wrote, you don't have to look for the hidden meaning.

You also said:
"I don't need advice on how to be intimate without it resulting in sex. Thanks all the same."
Several people had offered suggestions to be intimate with him, not necessarily involving PIV if you find that uncomfortable, you dismissed these ideas. Because it is INTIMACY that she struggles with. She doesn't want it anymore than she does at the moment, whether it's a blow job, PIV, mutual masturbation. The WHOLE thing is a struggle for her, not just PIV!!

I never said that you said you'd never have sex with him again. I did use the term "sexless marriage" because the generally accepted definition is "sex about once in 5 weeks, or less" and isn't that the case for you right now? The definition of sexless marriage is just that, a marriage that is sexless. Op has sex regularly. it just isn't as regular as her dh would like. Who "generally defined" sexless as sex less than once every 5 weeks, anyway?

Sexless marriage definition - en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexless_marriage

I've previously used this definition, and rightly or wrongly been criticised. It is Wikipedia though, so hardly a peer reviewed, academically respected source!

It's bloody obvious that a marriage where the couple is having sex every 5 weeks or so is not sexless. It's a twisting of the definition for the projecting posters on here. A sexless marriage would be one without sex.

FFS Brightling you must be so frustrated with this thread. It seems to go round in cirles with some awful posters on here determined to put you in the wrong. I can only imagine the state of their relationships (if they have them). The people who perpetually twist your words are as bad as your DH.

The definition is there though Merde, whether people agree The US National Health and Social Life Survey says otherwise.
It is because sexless doesn't mean none at all it means "less" as in less than average or infrequent. A marriage with no sex is defined as non-sexual.

Whether the couple have a sexless marriage or a non-sexual marriage there are reasons for this and it is not a criticism on their ability to be a married couple. It doesn't mean that if someone is in a sexless marriage it is their job to fix that by putting out.

You can either approach sexual problems in a childish way by suggesting that one with low libido "put out" or that the person with high libido "put up with it".

The more mature approach is to not put blame on one or the other but to figure out what is causing the problem and how the couple can overcome it and get to place of mutual respect and understanding. This, thankfully is where the OP is going.

I actually don't think this thread is going round in circles. The begining of the thread was a bit childish but it has moved on a lot from the OPs husband was being described as a big sulky baby who was only after getting is end away. Which is a good thing and I actually think the majority of the posters were giving a lot of support and suggestions. Hopefully this thread will help others and avoid anyone getting into the situation that idealweather found herself in years before.

The more mature approach is to not put blame on one or the other but to figure out what is causing the problem and how the couple can overcome it and get to place of mutual respect and understanding. This, thankfully is where the OP is going.

Hallelujah! and thank you dizzy.

I'm not looking for other ways to reject him or hurt him further. I want him to understand that his reaction to me not being in the mood simply pushes me away further making him less attractive. Believe it or not a man who doesn't sulk all day and is happy to enjoy some non sexual pressured affection is, for me currently, a good place to start on rebuilding our physical relationship.

Personally I do not define my marriage as sexless nor non-sexual.

AnotherEmma and others (sorry for not name checking) I am amazed at how posts can be twisted. I never expected responses to be make it ALL my fault. I especially liked the advice about the best time to talk to my husband about my feelings is after sex.

Yeah that was a definite low point wasn't it?!

It is because sexless doesn't mean none at all it means "less" as in less than average or infrequent

And who sets the "average," who decides how much sex the "average" couple should be having?

And why does there even need to be an average? Isn't that just putting MORE pressure on women to "keep their man happy" or vice versa!

Of course it is up to each couple to decide how much sex they should have.
You may not like the fact that "sexless marriage" is widely understood to mean "10 or fewer times a year" (in other words, 5 weeks) but please do your own research and learn this is indeed the generally accepted definition.

Women are certainly free to choose to have a sexless marriage like this. And if you are married to a man with an abnormally low libido, perhaps both of you can be happy, On the other hand, if your H has a normal libido, then you should be aware of the problems that greatly reducing sexual frequency will cause.

Don't take my word for it. Google and research "sexless marriage" and you will see what happens in these marriages.

I would hate for Brightling to have any sex she does not want.
I would also hate for her to not be 100% honest with her H about her priorities, because he may be surprised to learn how far down his needs are, and that her biggest concern involving him is that his sulking makes her feel bad. I suggest you let him read this thread.

Perhaps the reason this thread is so long and contentious is that the OP has rejected a lot of the advice given and she herself admitted right from the start

"I'm not even sure why I'm even posting."

It might be better if having read the thread she comes back and says what help or advice she wants. Then we can focus on that.

I also think the OP needs to be honest with herself. Does she honestly want sex at all and is the 'once every 5 weeks' something she really would prefer to dispense with as well but is afraid of what will happen if she does. Arguing over the definition of sexless isn't really the issue. Only by being really honest with herself can she be honest with DH.

For the last time no one is saying she should 'just put out'.

"And who sets the "average," who decides how much sex the "average" couple should be having?

And why does there even need to be an average?"

My understanding is that it is simply statistical, i.e. they interview a sample of couples and use that to work out the averages, and the relevant percentiles to provided a definition of "sexless". I haven't a clue where they sourced the sample from though, so it could be ridiculously biased, and of course, it is statistics and we all know the inaccuracies involved there.

I did a lot of research on this a few years back (not academically I hasten to add), and it always boiled down to something one of the wise posters of old MN once said "it doesn't matter what's normal, it matters that you're both happy". If you're still around Cog, thank you.

Of course that doesn't really help when you're not happy, and that does tend to push you into comparing yourselves with others, which is the trap I fall into regularly, but then I try to remember the advice and reconcile myself to it.

For what it's worth, this thread has been immensely useful in recognising that happiness is something we are all personally responsible for, not something we should necessarily look to our partners to provide.

marathon what about, instead of googling, listening to the people on this thread who have been in sexless marriage (or are atm) and see what they say instead?

I AM in a sexless marriage as per this definition and this is not going to change as far as I can see. This is due to ill health. My DH has a normal libido too.
However, he isn't sulking. My marriage isnt disintegrating either (which you strongly implied). Just right now, I would love to be able to have sex whenever I want (or to fee like it). I'm sure DH would too. But I can't.

Intimacy isnt just about sex. To reduce it to that would be a shame.
It's the physical affection (the cuddles, kisses, holding hands). It's allowing the other person to see YOU, with all your strengths and weaknesses. It's sharing your deepest feelings and your fears.

I'm :(:(:( by some people reactions on this thread where basically a relationship with little sex is seen to be destined to self destroyed and how the responsibility seems to be only on the shoulders of the lower libido partner

happiness is something we are all personally responsible for, not something we should necessarily look to our partners to provide.

YY to that.

IdealWeather your H sounds like a exceptional man. Not all of us could be happy in a sexless marriage (are you sure he is happy?). I am just being honest: there is NO WAY that I could be happy 5 weeks between sex, barring some very specific reason (ie, something more concrete than "just not in the mood"). I am NOT talking about a couple days (or heck even the odd week) of my wife not wanting sex. I am talking about sustained rejection over several weeks. Sorry, THAT would not work for me, or alot of other men/women like me with a normal sex drive.

And if there were a long-term health issue, I would need to work with my wife on some creative solution for my normal sexual needs. Otherwise, it would mean we had become incompatible for a successful marriage.

Do I sound like a "weak" man? Do I sound sex obsessed? I don't believe so! I think my reaction is pretty normal for anybody in a relationship where his/her important needs are not being met.

For example, my wife's primary love language is QualityTime. She dated and fell in love with me and married me (in large part) because we enjoyed spending alot of QualityTime together. This met an important need of hers. Imagine what would it do to our marriage if (years later) I decided to re-prioritize and put her QualityTime last on my list. What if she approached me, day after day, hoping for some QualityTime, but I would turn her away, tell her that sulking about it just makes me want to spend even LESS QualityTime with her. At some point, she would decide that I was no longer meeting her needs for QualityTime, and this would put the marriage at grave risk.

Again, google around for the topic sexless marriage, there are lots of stories about how this goes, regardless if the man or woman is the higher/lower libido.

The most important thing is that both partners need to be honest about their needs and their priorities. It is unreasonable to stop meeting your partner's needs, and expect him/her to just deal with it.

"are you sure he is happy?"

Oh FFS

-less means none at all. This is how the English language works. Interesting that a few researchers have decided that they can just change meaning because it suits them, and a few people think that that makes it correct. It is not.

You'd get upset if you had a nut allergy, ate something which purported to be nutless but which just had fewer than average nuts in it.

Just when you thought this thread couldn't get any lower.

Good point Boaty. For a minute there while catching up with this thread i got a bit confused.

I think what doesnt help is that a lot of people define sex as PIV So it could be these researchers just had that in mind They may define sexless as no PIV.

And they may define non sexual as no touching no hugs no oral sex etc etc.

Because a hell of a lot of people think of PIV sex as the only sort that counts.

Wise words Helena, so many potential flaws in the research. Not sure of it's value either academically or in the context of this thread, and others like it!