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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Worried/Scared, advice please.

106 replies

RyVeeta · 23/03/2016 11:18

Going to see someone about the emotional abuse I have been coping with, with an aim to leaving in due course. I'm not terribly good at explaining things and am concerned it'll all just sound trite and trivial. Would it be an idea to print off some of my threads from here to take. I'm far better expressing myself in writing and they would hopefully make it clear how long it's been going on and to what extent. I'm really worried I'll be dismissed or told that I am heartless because of dh's disabilities. It's taken me years to get to this point and I don't want to mess it up now.
Thank you.

OP posts:
MiscellaneousAssortment · 08/04/2016 00:19

Damn it! I wrote a long post and it didn't post :(

Bugger. It was about how I've worked my way round to having some pity for him. Pity, for the awful life he's created for himself, not an excuse though, just a reason for pity.

He is lucky to have such a caring and supportive family who love him and look after him no matter what childish tantrums he pulls. And yet, he squanders the most precious thing in the whole entire world... His family's unconditional love. It's wasteful and disgusting. And by the continual outpouring of hate and rage at you, I think he knows how vile he has become. Guilt is a powerful motivator. Unfortunately.

And this is when I had a thought in the lost post! He is surrounded by unconditional love. And he abuses it, and you. You are locked into the role of love, patience and suffering. He treats you like a piece of shit, you're his whipping boy and hostage. He is nothing but a creator of suffering, hurt and a bottomless pit of rage and greed. He has forced you to believe in a permanent 'get out of jail free' card, where he can't be held responsible for anything he says or does, because he's poorly and wahh, it's not faaair.

There are no checks on his behaviour.

He's the one who is in control here, he has created his world of cruelty and abuse. He deliberately has become his illness, to blame others and to control you.

Yes, he sounds 'broken', but there are levels of brokenness. And there are practical forces at work for many other people, factors that keep people going way beyond what they ever thought was possible.

Every day is a hellish struggle, everyday I strive to do more than my illness let's me, because I want to be more than my illness. I have to be more, for my child, to keep my home, to feed myself, to feed and clothe my child. I AM more than my illness, as that's what being a good parent is. And I choose not to be a bad parent. I choose not to damage those around me. And in the rare and wonderful moments of joy... It's always from being with my loved ones. I rail and fight against my health, I don't rail and fight against my family, how fucked up would that be?!

If I suddenly behaved like your partner, I would hurt people, I would damage my son, and ultimately, I'd also damage myself. Practically I rely on people to help me do almost everything, upset them and there would be direct consequences on the standard and reliability of care, for me and my son. And if I deliberately set out to hurt the people who love me, it's not just them who'd be unhappy, I'd be unhappy too. If I decided to stop taking medicines to make myself worse, it would limit me, and punish me, it would reduce me, diminish me.

And then I realised... I would never want to live like him.

And mentally, emotionally, I think my life is actually easier to cope with!

He lives in a world of no consequences. Because of your and his children's unconditional love, and his abuse, it doesn't matter what he does, what he says, what fresh hell he visits on you, he always gets the same in return. Unconditional love. Care. Support. Sympathy. Gentleness. (And Fear). He behaves cruelly, hurtfully, his impotent rage streams out of him. But, there's still no impact on his world. Because everyone has to make allowances, be kind, be understanding, hope for a better day tomorrow, tip toe around him... Because he's ill and you're not so you must suffer!

In a weird and crazy way, he's got all the power, and none of the power. He's created a world where he has no impact. No consequences. No cause and effect.

What adult lives like that? What adult would really want to live like that?

He's made himself no more than his disability. He's made himself less equal than other adults. Hes made himself a prisoner of his own hatred and abuse. So... I pity him.

Sorry I've gone on again! Last thought:

What happens if you changed the rules? What happens if he gets back the equality and power of every other adult? The power to effect his own surroundings and self.

You gift him cause and effect...

RyVeeta · 09/04/2016 15:56

Hello all,
Once again, thank you.
All is relatively quiet here at the moment, he is begging for affection and claiming he doesn't get enough, despite being told that it's about respect. I didn't go back there, I'm tired of trying to explain that people don't want to cuddle those that treat them badly. He's still keeping me awake, but apparently it's his right to talk in bed if that soothes him. The fact that it has an impact on others is not something that he would or does consider. He has warned me that his pain is bad so he may be a bit agitated as he's increasing his medication. I suppose that's good.
Miscellaneous I'm still going round in circles; feel guilty, feel relieved, feel guilty etc. Especially when his pain seems bad and is distressed.
Changing the rules, that happens now and then, but he gets agitated or they last for a few weeks, it's a case of anything for the sake of peace. Never did it with the children, but for their sake I do it with him. Your comment on unconditional love and no consequences is absolutely right. Or has been for a very long time, but having woken up and read some of Enrique's suggestions, I am becoming more aware.

OP posts:
Dragongirl10 · 09/04/2016 22:43

HI Ryvita,

I have read your thread wondering all the time why you do not just go, just leave... there is no happy ever after in this, this will not change and all the time your life is slipping by you.

You are free to do exactly as you please and yet you choose to stay in a miserable relationship ..why?

ANYTHING, anyway of living would be so much better than this, yet all your posts are focussed on him and his demands and feelings, forget him and walk out...start a new life..it is that simple.

I want to shake you..Gently and kindly..! and march you out of that house ..

Good luck

EnriqueTheRingBearingLizard · 10/04/2016 02:04

I think it's a process really Dragongirl an awakening that can be drawn out until people in Ryvita's situation feel aware and strong enough to take the steps that need to be taken. There's also processing a degree of guilt when you're a good and decent person, because even though someone treats you unbearably, you still feel compassion when you believe their life will be more difficult without you.

It's not right to feel that way, but if you've had years of conditioning then it takes time to break the habit.

Ryvita I'm glad you're making time to read and think about things and realize where you need to aim for. Like Dragongirl and everyone else who's commented on your thread, I hope you can accomplish that sooner rather than later.

Keep posting when you want to share anything or need some support.

Dragongirl10 · 10/04/2016 07:57

Enrique, Thanks for explaining, as l just would not feel like that myself if my DH behaved like that l would be gone very fast and be absolutely livid!

I do not understand the gentle responses of the perfectly nice women who live with EA or abuse of any kind...l read post like this one with a great fury towards the perpetrator and don't understand why the poster does not think ' how dare you treat me like this, l will not live this way' and leave.

l do however have great compassion for the Op and her dcs and truly wish for a better future for her, wish so much l could help her, it makes me very sad.

RyVeeta · 10/04/2016 09:31

Dragongirl I was like you once. It was a bloody long time ago! I'm educated to Phd level. You'd think I'd know better wouldn't you. It doesn't happen like that though, it's insidious. Slowly, slowly creeps up on you and scary because it's invisible to those around you. Enrique put up some reading which is worth taking a look at. In my case, it's a combination of a few, but in the main, The Water Torturer was the one that chimed clearly. There have been so many reasons to go over the years, and so many to stay. There have been other things to, but so identifying I wouldn't post them, but whilst nothing sexual has ever happened it took him a while to get the concept of fidelity. So many reasons to stay, too. Our children are easily unsettled. I thought it would get better as they got older, I hoped it would get better. I didn't want to lose a house that I had worked hard to get and to keep and that I paid for, in the main. I wanted to ensure continuity in education for the dc. And all the time someone is telling you that nothing is ever right, and that actually you're not as bright as they are and no, going back to work isn't a good idea, etc. All the time, they are becoming more and more ill and helpless and you feel you can't abandon somebody when you've put so much in. You go in circles, but feeling strong, that went a long time ago. The last of the dcs go to uni this year, that's my turn. I start seeing the support worker tomorrow, so hopefully that will give me strength. You see it's no good telling me that when he smashes the house up when I tell him I'm going, it's a police matter. That's all well and good, but who deals with the fallout. That'll be me and I have no one in RL. That's where the support worker comes in. He'll talk suicide too, and I'll worry. That's when the support worker comes in. Someone there, in RL to tell me it's safe, and that it's okay and that what I'm doing is right. Someone to balance the stuff going on in the rest of my life. Have you any idea what it's like to have nobody to talk to, and I mean nobody. I have no friends, I have people I know, but I don't do anything socially, I don't go to the pub, to restaurants, to the cinema, nothing. I sit in, night after night, watching television, reading, looking after folk. If I went to someone I know, they see snapshots, and they don't know what he's really like.

OP posts:
Snoopydo · 10/04/2016 09:43

You know it doesn't matter if people don't know what he's like? You don't have to prove anything to anyone. You can leave a relationship just because.

I know it takes a lot of courage to leave if he is violent and threatening suicide. Can you make a plan with the support worker?

RyVeeta · 10/04/2016 10:17

That's the aim Snoopy. It'll take a a few months, but I shall be making a plan with the support worker. I'm not up to doing it immediately and neither are dc. We will get there but I need to do it my way or I'll end up backing out/backing down/giving up. Slowly, but definitely is the aim.

OP posts:
amarmai · 10/04/2016 13:19

KOKO is the right mantra for you, op. Keep on keeping on. The tortoise not the hare.

Dragongirl10 · 10/04/2016 23:23

Once your dcs are at Uni, could you organise it so that you leave without him knowing what is happening?

Can you find a safe place to stay and keep it quiet, nc with him, just go and be a distance away, not contactable whilst he has his tantrum...because thats what it sounds like.... a toddlers tantrum...(Admittedly very scary and possibly dangerous)

Let him smash things up ..he will have to sort it and you will be peacefully far away.

You are very well educated l am sure you could get a job and support yourself, whilst you divorce and get a tough lawyer to get you a good settlement.

Good luck with your plans Op....please remember THIS RELATIONSHIP IS NOT NORMAL.....you may not have RL friends because he has alienated you from them, but once you leave you can make new friends and be so much happier.

EnriqueTheRingBearingLizard · 11/04/2016 13:47

you may not have RL friends because he has alienated you from them, but once you leave you can make new friends and be so much happier
This is very true.

I would be like you too Dragongirl but saying that's based on my experiences during my marriage where I've been very much an equal partner and loved and cherished. I'd like to think if it'd been different, that I'd still have maintained my strength, but who can say really? you do have to walk in someone else's shoes to tell if their feet hurt. I'd also like to do a magic wand rescue job for people who are experiencing this kind of life, but, safely and solidly is the best process really.

It might be worth reading and perhaps joining the thread here Ryvita if you haven't already seen it. Sadly, you are very definitely not alone.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/2587285-Where-can-I-get-the-strength-to-end-it?msgid=60399750

Even if you can't make your plans soon, perhaps you will be encouraged and keep gaining strength through the support of your face to face meetings and also by seeing other people's experiences on the MN Relationships board.

One thing I would impress upon you though is to remember, that if you want to make something happen, you really can, you just have to stop allowing obstacles, whatever they are, to block your way.

RyVeeta · 12/04/2016 09:13

We are playing strange games at the moment. Apparently I don't feed him properly. What I offer is of lesser nutritional value than what I eat. This is someone who doesn't do vegetables. So, despite having a virus I made his favourite meal. He didn't fancy it.

OP posts:
MiscellaneousAssortment · 12/04/2016 09:43

Now that's not normal and not nice either.

Maybe in time you will see that when someone breaks their side of a marriage, you not have to hold both sides up yourself.

It's not only absolutely fine to walk away, it's better, as in reality, you can't create a life from hurt, ill will and abuse.

It's ok to say, this is unacceptable, at any time, whether it's the first time he's behaved like this, or it's the last in a long line of nastiness.

I really hope the person you're seeing becomes enough of a witness for you to know how he's behaving and make it real enough for you. I know well that feeling of trying to get my awful husband to acknowledge the reality of what he was doing to the marriage and the way he was treating me. It felt very important and his refusal to do that stopped me leaving for a long time. Now I know I didn't need his validation, but then, I felt unable to break out of it unless I had his agreement that his behavior was bad enough for me to leave.

Can you use this thread to capture what your days are like with him, so you can look back at it and see yourself what it's like over time? I know I kept ignoring it for so long that I'd never get that perspective.

Good luck

RyVeeta · 13/04/2016 14:34

A question. This may be me, I'm honestly not sure, but it does seem a bit odd. As I said earlier he wants more money. Is it normal for one person to take a large amount out of the family account for personal spending each month. I'm being made to feel really bad about this and I'm sure other families don't do this. He wants two hundred and fifty personal money each month, but thinks I'm horrible for cancelling a few things and refusing a few things on the basis that he has this personal money. Is that right or am I being out of order?
I'm getting more muddled by the day.

OP posts:
EnriqueTheRingBearingLizard · 13/04/2016 15:10

I don't think there's any 'normal' with regard to how partners sort out their finances.

In our house we put all our money into a joint pot, out of that pot we pay all household expenses, entertainment etc. and some aside for savings. We don't have personal money as such, we just both have what we want from what's spare, but that works for us because neither of us want much and we've never had a cross word about money in all our time together because we're both fair. In fact for me it works the other way and my DH is always encouraging me to buy things if I like them, even if I don't need them. It's not often I do, but it shows his generosity of spirit.

If we felt strongly about having money that was our own, we'd both take the same amount from what we could afford out of the joint pot.

I don't think that's of any help to you RyVeeta, your question is rhetorical really isn't it and another demonstration of how things aren't good in your marriage Sad

By the way, apologies for mistyping your name up above. Must've been having a dumb moment Blush

RyVeeta · 13/04/2016 15:22

Thanks Enrique, no probs with name spelling! Grin
He has never said no to me purchasing anything. However, I don't buy high cost items like he does and to be honest, we can't afford it. I'm saving up for a household item at the moment, and managing with crossed fingers and a broken washing machine. He doesn't like saving and would rather have things now. It took him a few months to save for his last big item and he's really angry about it, because it took more than a couple of months to get it. It didn't, I paid for it on the credit card and didn't hand over the dosh for a few months until it was paid off, but that's too controlling. It worked that way for 20 years, we had agreed that it should work that way. Now it doesn't. No consultation, no discussion. That's it.
Aaarghhh!

OP posts:
LisaMed · 13/04/2016 15:30

I think it isn't about how much he 'deserves' or how much other people have. I think it is how much he feels he can take and to hell with anyone else in the family. It is about asserting how important he is in the family and how much he should have in proportion to everyone else. It also makes sure that it is harder to build up a running away fund.

Sending hugs as it must be incredibly hard.

You could try showing him a spreadsheet of what comes in and what has to go out before any fun money is allocated (mark all the fun stuff that is for him alone in a different colour and make sure he sees it), but I do not expect you will get far with this and he will almost certainly dispute what is 'must have' and what is 'fun'. From what you have written, I don't think an appeal to reason will go far, but it may be worth a try for your own benefit, and to see how much he takes.

Hope the support worker will help.

averythinline · 13/04/2016 15:44

re the spends - most people i know have a similar organisation to Enrique

You will need to separate finances though in the future so you will need to think it through how it will work - it maybe worth talking to a financial advisor or citizens advice about it as it will change if you split up - there is not 'family' money then just two individuals
If he is incapable of cooking for himself the social services can help with a needs assessment and he may be eligible for direct payments/meals on wheels etc.... this is not your responsibility

RyVeeta · 13/04/2016 18:14

Yeah, did the spread sheet Lisa, last weekend. Made no odds, as you said.

OP posts:
LisaMed · 13/04/2016 18:55

It may be that with the children becoming more independent, he feels that he needs to emphasise how important he is, especially if some of them are not there all the time to notice him. Having a bigger percentage of money shows he has more importance.

hugs.

Mandatorymongoose · 13/04/2016 20:17

I think it would be fair to add up all the bills, not including anything individual so sports channel's or comics for him and wool for you for example but including DC expenses ofc, add a small amount for savings / emergency fund and then any remaining income balance you split 50/50 for personal spending.

I believe this is a reasonably common way of managing money between partners.

I don't imagine this will leave him £250 a month though and I doubt he'll think it's fair, you would probably have more spending money?

His health doesn't give him the right to abuse you. I am very glad you're making plans.

EnriqueTheRingBearingLizard · 13/04/2016 20:22

His health doesn't give him the right to abuse you

Remember that.

There are probably a lot of short, sharp phrases that you could pick out of this thread and put in a small notebook to look at in down moments or times when you feel confused.

RyVeeta · 14/04/2016 12:00

Yes, Enrique, you're right. I need to remember these things, I'm feeling very wobbly today, despite a strange week, because everything is relatively calm, it sort of seems alright and then I wonder if it's me. The support worker had to cancel at the last minute so that is now tomorrow. Hopefully she'll help to put things back into perspective.

OP posts:
EnriqueTheRingBearingLizard · 14/04/2016 13:58

Forgive me, because I mean this with your best interests at heart, but you need to stop dwelling on your 'is it me?' or 'is it just me?' thoughts. You also need to do more of the reading I recommended and listen to people on the other thread who predict and confirm how emotional abusers ebb and flow and that this is part of the known pattern.

The distinguishing thing is that neither of you are happy any more in this marriage. Whatever the reasons or the cause of that, the end result is that plain fact.

So what if it is you? What do you expect people to say? If someone said that yes it's just you does that negate your feelings and your misery? NO, it wouldn't. Should you be made to endure it for the rest of your life? NO, you should not.

You are entitled to your feelings

I'll tell you this RyVeeta on all the threads on MN where people have left unhappy marriages, Ive never read of anyone regretting it. There's regret at not ending it sooner and regret that the partnership didn't work, but sometimes you have to accept that despite all best efforts, it is what it is.

RyVeeta · 14/04/2016 15:02

You're right. I sound like a whiny old bat! I will sort it. It's easier when I'm upset, if that makes sense, it gives you anger which provides an impetus. I will sort it. I don't need this.

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