Friend dislikes my 5 yo

[OhForFrigSake]

Title says it all really. My good friend has a DD the same age as my DS, the problem is that my son can be a bit boisterous and giddy and well, a boy and her daughter is very quiet and not terribly outgoing at all. My DS has a brother and has learned to be assertive whereas her daughter is an only child and is not at all assertive. She is a lovely girl though and DS is genuinely good friends with her, they don't fight and he doesn't pick on her and they have a nice time when they're together with no falling out. We have been on holiday a number of times and the children have always got on great.

The problem is that when we're together friend is constantly 'helicoptering' over the children and monitoring everything they do - almost as if she expects DS to be doing something to her DD. It's like she is policing the relationship.

She is also constantly snapping at DS and telling him off - she is on him in a second. She tells him off far more than she would her DD. He's not an angel and he does mess about a fair bit but he is only 5 and nothing he does is in malice, it's just usually being a bit silly IYKWIM. I do always pull him up on silly behaviour but because my friend is on his back constantly I don't even get chance to. It's really like she can't stand him

I'm not making excuses for my DS but it does really make me feel sad when we're together as he is always getting told off, even when he's not really doing anything 'telling off worthy.' If her DD does something 'naughty' she even blames DS there saying she's copying - that she must have got it from DS.

I feel really sad. I do think DS is more boisterous than her DD and whilst He can be annoying, she could just leave it to me to tell him off and get off his back a bit and let the children play - because they do play lovely together when she is not policing everything. I really feel like not seeing them as it just makes me feel so depressed.

Ignoring the boy/girl distinction, your dc is much more boisterous than her dc for whatever reason. It obviously winds your friend up, that's why she tells him off. So you either need to stop getting your children together or stop his antics yourself by seeing his behaviour through her eyes. It won't harm him to be stricter about rough and tumble and silliness every so often. If she sees you being hard line with him once, I imagine she will back off. If you excuse husband behaviour, she is forced to step in.

Are you always in the space room as them? DS is 4 and he plays in his bedroom with his friends while we ignore and drink coffee in the kitchen (live in an apartment so not upstairs!)

Sorry no advice as I stopped reading the OP.....

I can't get past the phrase "he's being....well a boy". Such a stupid, ignorant, sexist comment. And one used often by others.

Not all boys are boisterous. It's a parenting or personality issue. And I say that as a mother of two boys. My boys like stereotypical toys like Lego and cars, but they also like reading, being calm and quiet and drawing.

Sorry I'm on your friends side

I have a very well
Mannered calm polite 4 year old son. My friend has a boisterous, manipulative, aggressive 5 year old daughter

If I don't protect my son then nobody does as my friend doesn't seem to discipline the behaviour

OP you need to man up and control your child.

Thanks all! Very helpful advice on this thread which I'm going to put into action.

I'm afraid those who just simply can't believe that what I mean by 'boisterous' is not code for 'little shit' will just have to take my word for it. I have given some examples of what I mean by this behaviour up thread - knife tapping etc. It's not and never has been hurting her daughter and I ALWAYS address his bad behaviour but often don't get chance to as anything is pounced on immediately by friend.

By the way, all I said was my son was 'a boy' whoever told me to fuck off for it - right back at you, you nasty cow.

If you experience very gendered children (quiet sweet daughters/ bov

Ok - I do think there's a bit of an assumption in responses here that we should be telling boys off more and girls less - I don't always agree. I often think girls get overly censored. I'm not saying that from personal bias - I have sons, but my teacher just described my 4yr ds1 as 'academic, a little reserved' so really not the rough-housing type.

Awkward as it is, I do think you should talk to your friend and get her perspective. I say this cos I have friends with older boys than our (8 and 5) who would just come round and their kids just trash the house and behave what I thought badly (sliding off deck across wet lawn into flowerbeds, sticking hands into shared food at mealtimes and taking a nice stuff) and they wouldn't comment, then looked a bit miffed if raised it with the kids. So obvious we saw it differently. It has resolved a bit or I would have had to say something. I think we could have reached a compromise

A street car - I do control my child, honestly. But I think she'd only be happy with him sitting there silently, doing absolutely nothing. She even tells him off when he talks - like she finds his voice annoying! It's pretty much everything he says/ does.

Damned if I'd let someone pick on one of my sons if it was unwarranted. Is he really that bothered about playing with this little girl, sounds like he'd be better off if you met up with other friends. Or meet up somewhere neutral like the park and tell her to leave him alone.

I have a friend who was convinced that all boys were rough and boisterous. Her dd was a very active little girl and this was always put down to the influence of ds1, even though he was generally glued to the corner playing with lego whilst she ran around But she was at least nice about it, if a bit bonkers.

People see what they expect to see - that goes for you and your friend.

By the way, all I said was my son was 'a boy'

You don't even know what it is you've said?

My DD is an only child and about as assertive as they come!

Ok - I do think there's a bit of an assumption in responses here that we should be telling boys off more and girls less - I don't always agree.

That's not what I'm reading Crazy.

I'm seeing a near consensus that undesirable behaviours should be addressed and moderated, regardless of sex.

Ok, I've figured out the problem with this thread is that everyone knows someone who doesn't discipline their child and let's them run roughshod on play dates - to clarify (and again, you'll have to take my word for it) but that's not DS. I pinky promise you all I DO jump on any bad behaviour I see, instantly. Other friends say how well behaved my children are and we never have problems on any other play dates - there are 4/5 people we regularly get together with. School also say DS is a lovely funny boy. It's literally this one friend!

Gooseberry, yes I do see. I have made the Mumsnet error of ascribing traits to a gender - something you can roundly be told to fuck the fuck off for. I apologise. There. Better?

Much better. Thank you

Not to dripfeed but last week another (mutual) friend who had spent a few hours with us all did say to be afterwards 'wow, friend really doesn't have any time for DS does she?' I admit I was really gutted as it's clearly obvious.

Me

I have this with my dd and it grates me as I feel protective of her. Different personalities and parenting can cause play date problems. What I now do is either meet up in open spaces, like the park, or meet up minus the children.

That's what I'm reading too, Gooseberry. And that bad behaviour shouldn't be excused because a child is a boy.

OP, I've reread thread and you hadn't given earlier examples of behaviour such as knife tapping. However, I wouldn't have accepted knife tapping from mine. That is annoying and, if you'd asked him to stop, bad behaviour. They'd have had warnings, "stop tapping your knife", followed by "I've asked you to stop tapping your knife, if you do it again I'll take it off you". Then if he continued, I'd remove the knife.

If you've turned a blind eye to things in the past, or your tolerance threshold is higher than your friend's. It will cause issues.

I would wonder if the DD has said something to her DM which has been construed by the DM as the DS being sneaky or bullying or something. Hence the helicoptering. But I wouldn't be too happy with my DS being constantly picked on/pulled up for nothing much. Try time apart for a few months.

ohforfrigssake imho your friend is completely unreasonable and sounds down right mean. I feel for your son being picked on by her. I personally would dump her, life's too short!

Also there are biological explanations for why many children behave in sex stereotypical ways (testosterone maybe?). Saying your DS is sex stereotypical hardely makes you a misogynist

As a parent of a very loud very boisterous boy I think there could be more to this story if told from your friends side.

If it's exactly as you say and your friend is telling your ds off needlessly then I'd probably cool the friendship or see her in the eve or at lunch alone when your dp's can look after the dc.

Try saying that you've realised that it's causing her lots of stress dealing with your ds and you'd love to get together when not stressed out by childcare. Have her round to share a bottle of wine or watch a film in the eve if you want to maintain the friendship.

I do wonder if your standards of behaviour are different from hers. I've reread upthread and apart from 'knife tapping' you don't give any examples of how he behaves. You say he doesn't hurt her dd but is he overbearing in any way? Perhaps always leading the game or getting the best toys? Does he have aggressive actions that mean it looks like he might accidently hurt her dd, waving swords, or sticks , swinging things about? She could be flinching on her dd's behalf. You say she tells him off for talking, what does she find to criticise? Is he loud or non-stop or interrupting your conversation or her dd?

I think you need to be honest with yourself if his behaviour is really what you want it to be and not excuse it by his age (or anything else!) you need to model the behaviour you want from him. So if he's talking over you you explain that's not polite, if he's bellowing tell him to turn the volume down.

I get that your friend might be being over sensitive. I think your description of her dd as not very outgoing is telling. I think you may be internally pleased by your ds's confidence but need to realise that other types of behaviour can be a good thing.

My ds is very confident but I think it can be a double edged sword and I can see that being a better behaved child might reap rewards in later life.

No magic answers for you about improving behaviour for boys like your ds!!!

Op, if it really is just this one friend, then I would see her without the children. Or not at all.

Also there are biological explanations for why many children behave in sex stereotypical ways (testosterone maybe?)

Testosterone as an explanation for alleged innate differences? In small pre-pubescent children?

Saying your DS is sex stereotypical hardely makes you a misogynist

No. If anything it makes her a misandrist; besmirching all boys to excuse her own.

Are you not following this thread at all germ?

Yes, I very much suspect that she's worried about her daughter - not being hurt as I've said that's never happened (apart from one occasion with bumped heads when they ran into each other which we both witnessed as was innocent). Bear in mind these two have grown up together, I think it's remarkable that they don't bicker really.

Friend has reported back to me several things that have been said/ done to her daughter by other children (not my DS) that she gives as evidence that her DD gets walked all over. I do get that she's clearly trying to protect her and I'm not criticising her. Our two children are very different in personality but since they have never had any problems I just don't know why she is policing their relationship.