Seriously thinking about NC with DH's side of the family

[Gobbolinothewitchscat]

This is going to be long but think I need to post the background

I've posted previously about SIL's wedding. I have 3 DCs - age 3, 2 and 13 weeks. The oldest have just turned 3 and 2 respectively so still small.

SIL is getting married about 150 miles away on a week day. We have been told no DCs at the wedding. Mil has a difficult family background and her half-brothers children will be going however - albeit they are older than ours. I susir t ultimately that SIL will also permit her friends to bring small babies. I understand that it is SIL's wedding but I find it pretty hurtful that our children (who are actually her closest relatives) are to be excluded.

My parents are extremely supportive of us and will normally drop anything to help us out. Mil has form for being very difficult and has been very unhelpful at difficult times - eg looked after putt DS on the day of my grandmother's funeral (250 miles away) but refused to rearrange plans so I had to get out cleaner to come and look after DS (then 1 year old) as she had to leave at 5pm. The whole thing was horribly stressful and I still find it very upsetting to think about.

My parents normally drop everything to help us but normally go on holiday with friends around the date of SIL's wedding. They therefore told me immediately that they may be able to look after our DCs but that - in this instance - they actually won't cancel their holiday if the group of friends can only manage that date (they are all retired so tend to go quite last minute to get the best deal) and we should therefore get a plan B. I immediately highlighted this to DH and his response was - (massively fucking entitled) oh it's my sister's wedding. Surely they won't go away. I said they very well could and he should highlight this to his family now as we may not have any childcare and ultimately I wouldn't be able to go. Plus, I could very well still be feeding youngest DC. Really the only option would be to take someone to look after the DCs on site and I didn't even know if that would be feasible. But I was highlighting it now so that there were no amateur dramatics near the wedding if I couldn't go

Communication within DH's family is pretty piss poor so nothing was done.

At the weekend, SIL, MIL and FIL came ti visit and stay the night. SIL said something in passing about my parents looking after the DC and I said that actually they maybe away and there wasn't really a plan B. I said that I could perhaps ask my DS's key worker from nursery to travel to the wedding and look after the DCs but we would need to get him accommodation. And, in any event, I was uncomfortable about being away from my youngest DC even if I could get someone look after all DC at our house.

SIL told me that there were no rooms left at the hotel but if I got the key worker, he could perhaps stay at a local B&B. That she was having to lay £150 a head per guest and she wanted me to be able to relax and enjoy myself and also keep costs down - hence why our DCs weren't invited. I said that the best solution maybe to ask the key worker. And, if I did, would SIL like the DCs to be brought to the church (waiting outside during the ceremony) for a few photos as they would be in the area. Totally up to her obviously but thought she might like it. She said yes, but she was banning children from the church. I said I quite understood as FIL's brother's children had made a terrible racket during ours in the church (MIL insisted they were invited) and you could even hear the noise on the wedding video. MIL said she couldn't remember that but I said (nicely) that it was on the video. I also said that if my parents were looking after the DCs, they had also offered to bring them to the church (to wait outside) and take them home (a big thing as a huge drive) after if she wanted photos.

So - it was all perfectly pleasant and I thought the childcare issue was clear. More importantly, there was actually communication like normal people. DH then went to work in the morning and the DCs and I went out with SIL and the PILs for brunch - all perfectly pleasant. Nothing else said. I was slightly nervous about going out as the PILs had been invited to visit DC3 a few days after she was born and had been very late (with no communication). I was upstairs feeding the baby and DH had said something to MIL about it. She had started shouting and bawling at DH saying it was my fault and I was manipulating them and being very rude about me. I decided the best thing to do was pretend I hadn't heard and gloss over things. But, again, everything perfectly pleasant at brunch

DH then arrives home and asks me what I had been saying to his sister? I explained the position about childcare and said that I had highlighted this to him already but his approach seemed to have been that my parents would have to just cancel their holiday. That wasn't very constructive so I had highlighted things to SIL so she could make ab informed choice about allowing the DCs to attend in the vicinity and be looked after off site (pretty pissing annoying that DH could have mentioned it earlier so we could have got a room for them and carers at the hotel but now we couldn't) as ultimately if we couldn't get appropriate childcare, I wouldn't be able to go and with a wedding of 60 people, that would be noticeable.

DH then says that obviously I had a chip on my shoulder about FIL's neice making a racket during our wedding and that my parents were manipulating things by refusing to cancel their holiday (the irony after my grandmother's funeral and various other times that they have dropped everything and driven 300 miles to help us out after the PILs have let us down!). I susir t he had spoken to MIL on the way home.

I am absolutely fed up with this. I am fed up of rather than everyone talking civilly about things (as I tried to do) and resolve problems in good time, MIL then approaches DH behind my back. If she or SIL had a problem, why not discuss it with me at the time or the next day? I am fed up (and I think this is the crux of it) if DH not simply explaining that all I am trying to do is sort out childcare for the DCs (as basically he seems to have opted out of it and my parents - his indentured servants obviously - are to drop everything AGAIN to help out). Why is DH not able to actually support me (his wife) and make it clear - politely - to his family that if you have your wedding hundreds of miles away and don't invite your very young nieces and nephews, then yes, childcare will be an issue and that is not bring "difficult". It's a matter of fact. And, actually, if your "keeping costs down" banning your brothers children whilst letting others attend is actually pretty fucking hurtful

I actually don't know what to do. I've said tinDH that I think that actually everyone should just be honest and communicate clearly with each other now. So if he thinks my patents are "selfish"
and "manipulative" (the breath taking cheek!) he should say to their faces. Further, I will contact SIL and MIL and ask them if they need me to clarify anything about what we discussed. Further, another option is for me to not attend and look after the DCs which I think maybe the best option all round

I'm actually so so sick of this. I don't want to see the PILs again and I don't particularly want to see SIL again.

Should I contact them? Should I just decline the wedding invitation? I want to make it clear why

I also need to sort out the DH issue too

DH has asked me if I think my parents would do it if they are not on hols. I've said I need to think if we should ask them.

You're just buying time, right? You seriously aren't going to ask them, are you? Please don't put your parents in the middle of this. Tell DH that No, you aren't going to ask them and that he needs to no longer consider them the de facto child care option in the future.

Being sympathetic to your DH he is programmed to please. He quite probably doesn't know how to solve things himself or what his own opinions are beyond 1) please ILs and 2) in situations not involving ILs please Gobbolino. When the two situations converge he really doesn't know what to do and his brain melts - he really doesn't understand why you don't think the same way as him.

This is a reasonable analysis I would say. How can I help him? I am 30% through toxic in laws. I feel like hiring a hitman

I was thinking the same as LionsLedge. You're essentially right back where you were at the beginning of the thread.

Your dh still wants to take the dc all that way to sit in a hotel room. He still wants you to ask your parents or arrange for the keyworker to travel all that distance to sit in a hotel room.

He hasn't apologised for anything (unless I've missed it). The only reason it vaguely looks like progress is that he's stopped acting as though he has some serious issues with his memory.

After their email I really wouldn't be able to spend time with them. Who are they to make judgements on your relationship. Also the lying and tone would be enough to make
me distance myself

The progress (to me) is that the DC are actually allowed on the bloody premises. Previously, they were to stay away.

The other "progress" is the admission that - quelle surprise - MIL told him a load of shite about children under the age of 8 not being allowed in the hotel.

Oh what a fucking faff this all is.

I would say no to your parents - they shouldn't have to travel all the way to the venue and in any case they cannot commit to the dates until much nearer the time. You need to lock down childcare soon so that you know where you are.

Ditto the keyworker, as you said that's an extra 500 quid. And why should he have the inconvenience.

If DH can find a local babysitter that seems a good option - as you say, you will be flitting in and out so it's not like stashing them 20 miles off-site as the option appeared to be yesterday.

I would still question why the dc are to be hidden out of sight like something out of Flowers in the Attic whilst lots of other children get to attend. Your children should not be available for pictures, not least because it will surely be confusing for them as to why they're being wheeled out and then hidden away in the attic again.

However, this whole conversation is nothing but words until he actually contacts the SIL. By tomorrow it could all have evaporated and some other lie have consumed them all.

I would question exactly why he's so insistent you're there. It isn't going to be the weekend a deux that he had wanted, but he seems stuck on a loop of "but you're my wife". That doesn't make you contractually obliged to appear in public as his consort.

I am actually still baffled as to why you would want to even go! And of course your OH remembers damn well what he said about your parents, the lying bugger. Of course he´s not going to admit that though as he´s still hoping beyond hope that they will be available to blue-light it down to do their duty as On Call babysitters. He´s clutching at straws but I really hope, even if they are available to come, that you would not have the audacity to ask them!

I think that would be SO rude tbh. They have their own lives and shouldn´t be at anyone´s beck and call, nor should they be manipulated or slated by your OH and toxic inlaws when the mood takes them. And if you accept what he said, that he denies ever having made those comments about your folks, then you are enabling him.

I could not sit back and listen to my parents being insulted and disrespected by my OH but then actually contemplate asking them to do babysitting service at his sister´s wedding to please him and him alone! You´re being expected and pressured to tow the line to satisfy who exactly?? You´re allowing yourself to be manipulated but don´t involve your parents in this fiasco.

Serious question; why do you want to go to this wedding in any case?

I would probably reply to the email 'no the kids definitely weren't invited, infact I was informed that under 8s were banned from the premises. In addition I must mention that it's very inappropriate to pass comment on my relationship with DH (I would never pass comment on mil/Fil relationship!). Secondly it is also inappropriate to label myself and my parents manipulative. They have been extremely supportive over the years.

gobbolino I'm not sure if this would help, depends on the sort of person your husband is, but if it might leave him food for thought you could calmly say something like 'we both know what you said about my parents. This sort of thing doesn't go away, it leaves a mark".

If you say it calmly and simply repeat it once and then refuse to get into a discussion, it leaves it in his hands for future. It might make him think twice next time, depending on the sort of person he is.

I wouldn't go after their poor behaviour.

I don't particularly want to go. In fact, one option we discussed i stay at home.

I suspect that DH realises that (there are only 60 people going) my absence might be noticed and if he tells people it's because we couldn't get childcare, SIL will look a bit of a shit bag for not even allowing the DC on the premises. I think even he has that amount of insight...,,

Do not let your parents cancel their holiday under any circumstances. And do not even entertain the idea that your husband can curtail the relationship between your parents and your kids. I would make sure he knew that in no uncertain terms from today forward.

Decline the wedding invitation for yourself. He can go if he likes. If he wants to socialize with his family in future he can do so alone. You don't have to make a big declaration out of it, just be otherwise occupied on a case-by-case basis. If they are invited to stay at your home, go to your parents for that period of time, with or without the kids.

Just because he kowtows to them doesn't mean you have to. But you don't have to make a big drama out of it either. Just pleasantly go on about your business and let him manage his own relationship with them. They are not people you care to deal with.

All that said I do think the repeated offer to bring the kids to church was just putting a "kick me" sign on your back for no reason. If they don't want the kids around why push it on them? At the cost of making far more work and trouble for yourself. Stop thinking you have to be nice. You should be civil but there is no reason to extend yourself to placate backstabbing, disloyal, nasty people. And I would include your husband in that latter description.

You have to keep pushing him into doing something himself, ie phoning SIL tomorrow not soonish, agreeing what was said, getting him to decide what to do and feel real emotions. He will want to convert to just pleasing you instead of pleasing them rather than have his own thoughts.

Pinning him down to agreed facts that can't be wriggled out of so he can see his family's behaviour for what it is will be hard for him- which is why he goes to so much work to cover it up.

Ideally he would read Toxic Parents and go to counselling- but as a first step as you can only change yourself, you are reading Toxic in-laws and not covering up for him might make him more ready to see there is a problem here. Counselling might be a good idea for you - given on advanced search you have threads about your MIL and DH behaving the same way for years

OP, I wouldn't guarantee that is sorted until he's spoken to SIL. Putting it off is a massive concern. I suspect he is hoping your determination will dissipate, or that he'll get some respite from the conflict before gearing up to fight you and get his own way.

What he is hoping is that you'll agree to ask you parents if they aren't busy, then if they are busy he will expect to be able to convince them (and you) to cancel their plans. He's used to you and your parents whistling to his tune, he has no real reason to expect this time will be different.

wolp - you have some scary insight into this.

He was very polite tonight. But kept asking me what I wanted. I said my bit and then asked him what he wanted. He genuinely looked quite discombobulated and said just fir me to be happy and the DC to be well-looked after

I can't imagine why it would matter if the SIL looks like a shitbag in all this. We've all said all along she's perfectly entitled to exclude children from the wedding if she wants (noting that it would appear actually plenty of children are invited, but whatever). If anyone chooses to judge her for doing so, that's her business. Why drag everyone hundreds of miles, after this appalling behaviour, in order to protect SIL from criticism?

The only thing that stops me going mental is the fact that although DH loves MIL, he doesn't actually like her very much. Hence we only have to see them about 4 times s year - thank fuck. I think it's because of that this is survivable.

I'm definitely taking the tip about saying to him that we both know what he said and it leaves a mark

Who cares if people comment at your absence or if SIL is embarrassed? they have to own their choices just like anyone else.

No one in their right mind would look askance at the mother of three children under three skipping a distant wedding. If the in-laws want to make something of it, that is their problem. You and your parents in particular should not jump through hoops.

trib - I think he envisages himself at the wedding, telling people that the DC and I couldn't come as the wedding was child free and children were banned from the premises, whilst surrounded by other children

So you´re going to go through all this palarver, stress and expense just so that you can keep up appearences? Play the supporting role to your bonkers OH? To stop your SIL looking like a ¨shit bag¨??....or in other words, to please others!

I know I´m being brash here but somebody has to be, but you really need to grow a pair and learn to stick up for yourself. And learn to say ¨No¨!

I thought all lawyers were confident and self-assured. Maybe I´ve watched too many court room dramas

Exactly tribpot At the wedding, when people ask where the DCs are you can reply 'they weren't invited' which will rapidly look weird, even to your DH, when other people's DCs are present, no doubt DCs of people who aren't even the brother of the bride

I actually feel a bit sorry for your DH. I know he is behaving like a total shit but he's had years of brainwashing and really doesn't know what else to do.

I have to agree, you don't want to go, the dc aren't welcome, you can't have a child free weekend even if your parents are free as they baby will probably need to come with you (but isn't invited). So f*ck it, if the dc aren't 100% fully invited let him go on his own and he can have a big family piss up etc.

He does know and accept that there is no fucking way my parents are changing their plans or not going on holiday

He's asked me to speak to the key worker tomorrow.

I feel that I would look somewhat churlish to now say that actually I don't want to go if the key worker Is happy to come. DH has booked a b&b tonight.

My head hurts

OP, you can take some time to just breathe. It doesn't all have to go at 100mph. And what you agree to doesn't have to be final. You have a right to change your mind. Sounds like you need some