abusive son - quite long but desperately need advice

[purplenights]

My son (22) has always had an aggressive side and tbh I generally feel I have to walk on eggshells with him as he can be unpredictable. Historically he can get angry at inconsequential things and now he is an adult (he's 22 and still living at home) he has turned into the alpha male of the family (I have 2 daughters also living at home).

Last night he and his girlfriend were having a night in, and we had a nice evening watching tv. When he went up to bed, he discovered that one of our dogs had shat on his bed (I'd like to add that this is an unusual thing to have happened and the dogs are house trained). He absolutely exploded, swearing, threatening to 'kick the fucking dog' and generally being aggressive. His gf and I laughed it off, told him not to leave his bedroom door open and between us we changed the bedding. DS continued to shout and rant about chucking the dog down the stairs at which point I told him to stop over-reacting. He began to shout at me to get out of his fucking bedroom. I asked him to not swear and shout at me please, to which he replied fuck off fuck off fuck off repeatedly. I began to back off but decided to alpha him and so stepped into his personal space and said clearly 'please do not speak to your mother like that' he said 'well I just did so fuck off' and pushed me out of his room.

At this point (sorry this is quite long) my younger daughter (19) came into his room and shouted 'do not push her or shout at her like that, she's your mother'. She went to push him back and he grabbed her in a headlock and threw her on the bed holding her in a headlock. I was shouting at him to get off her, but DD said bravely, 'its ok mum, i'm not scared of him'. DD got up and pushed his chest, and he responded by putting his hands around her neck and pushing her out of the bedroom and then shoved her against the wall with his hands round her neck. I was shouting at him to get off her - her face was going red. He let go and shoved her against the wall again and left the house in his car.

Later I heard his GF speaking to him on the phone and he returned and went to bed. They have gone out for the day now with ExH who I have briefly given details of last night to. He said 'I'll deal with it'.

I just don't know what to do. I am so sorry this post is so long and hope that some people may have some advice. Should just add that ExH from whom I am amicably divorced is still very much present in our lives (we divorced 10 years ago).

[flippinada]

Anna I totally understand where you're coming from. I'm just really concerned about the OP.

purple please keep talking on here if it helps but please do priortise putting some urgent support in place today for you and your DDs. And please do call the police if you haven't alread

I know this must feel scary and overhelming and some posts must seem 'angry' and like they're telling you off but it's out of concern for you and your DDs and wanting to make sure you are safe and supported.

[Footle]

He has hurt someone.

[flippinada]

Not meaning to imply you aren't Anna (just realised it might be read that way). I know you wouldn't be on here if you weren't.

[Fyaral]

They are adults and can decide what relationship they want. You need to protect your daughters from violence. Kick him out. Today.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Like father, like son. Your son has become abusive like his own father remains; that is what he was taught by his dad.

Joint counselling with an abusive person is never recommended as such people even if they attend sessions can manipulate the counsellor into feeling sorry for them or to make out that its all the other person's (in this case your) fault. Abusive people never co-operate with counselling.

Am not at all surprised at your ex H's reaction; that was always going to be the case. He has abrogated himself of all responsibility here.

[fuzzywuzzy]

Footle you're right. Maybe that should read seriously harms someone/hospitalises someone or kills them given he seems to prefer choking people who are physically smaller than him.

[ricketytickety]

This isn't 'squabbling siblings'. It's gone way beyond that. Your exh is defending it because he wants to minimise it and make it all go away. It won't. Your son needs you to do this. He needs you to show him it is against the law to attack women (and dogs) and anyone else he fancies beating up.

[MatildaTheCat]

The gap between the siblings is as wide as it is because they are scared of him. I doubt very much this incident will have improved the situation. You've done what you thought was right but have unwittingly made things worse: ds believes, quite correctly, that he can do whatever he likes. Your dds believe, also correctly that they are unsafe and have nobody to protect them.

So please stop siding with the violent criminal, which you have been doing in allowing things to go this far. Act now, the line has been crossed. Your ex can put him up. Whether he chooses to or not is another matter. This needs to be permanent. Ex may say he can stay for a few nights until it has blown over and if so,myou need to chose between your DC. That's very hard but from where I'm standing it's quite clear who needs you most.

It is possible that your ds could change for the better over time but he most definitely will not whilst he is living ruling at your house.

Pack his bags then tell your dds that this is over. Watch their relief.

[sooperdooper]

It's not up to your ex to decide how you deal with this, you need to make your home a safe place for you and your DDs and it won't be while your Ds is living with you :(

Stay strong, it must be an awful situation to be in, keep talking on here, people just want to support you

[HumphreyCobblers]

By calling him out on his terrible, abusive behaviour you are also protecting his girlfriend. How does he treat her, I wonder?

[suzannecaravaggio]

The angry reaction from your exh suggests that he feels threatened at the idea of you reporting your son to the police

I think he wants you to contain and absorb the sons abusive behaviour so that he doesn't have his life impacted in any way.
He thinks its OK to sacrifice the safety and wellbeing of the women so that his life is undisturbed

[flippinada]

You're probably right suzanne. Seems he's quite happy for his daughters and ex-wife to be terrified and abused, but as soon as there are consequences that impact on him and his son he gets angry. Very telling.

[flippinada]

purple I hope you're ok and putting some support in place for yourself and your DDs. Do you know how to access support?

I'm really angry at your son and your XH as well. They are the ones in the wrong here, not you. Calling the police to ensure you and your DDs are protected is the right thing to do.

Womens Aid might be helpful as well, link here: www.womensaid.org.uk/

[coolaschmoola]

Please follow the advice here, your dds Must feel safe and protected by you, it's the most important part of being a parent. Your DS has jumped over the line from being protected by a parent to a parent and siblings needing to be protected FROM him. He CHOSE that, you now owe it to yourself and your dds to not give him any opportunity to do it again.

Your ex is minimising because deep down he knows this is learnt behaviour from him and his abusive behaviour towards you, but he will minimise rather than face it because, like most abusers, he is a weak coward, unable to accept responsibility for his own actions.

[MargotLovedTom]

Stuff working on the sibling relationship. As long as they're civilised, they don't have to be close. He is terrorising you and your dds. He needs to be out of the door asap.

[suzannecaravaggio]

telling me to go ahead and fuck everyone's life up, that I'm opening a pandora's box and to think about what I'm doing. He then hung up
He's scared of what will happed if you deal with this properly instead of keeping it in the family...is letting your son use his mother and sister as punchbags
He's trying to scare you out of going to the police, he can't give a rational explanation for not wanting to involve the police so he's trying to intimidate you with an angry reaction and melodramatic threats about 'Pandora's box'

What he means is that things will come to light which he would like to stay hidden

That's my take anyway

[Chippednailvarnish]

I have a feeling the OP isn't going to do anything.

[Mumoftwoyoungkids]

The time for a decent sibling relationship is gone. It is over. Forget that. Would you forgive someone who choked you? Do you even want your Dd to be someone who forgives people who choke her?

[louisatwo]

Your son'r response really escalates things - no remorse, just a further aggressive response. OP - you are doing him no favours by allowing his behaviour to do unchecked and as for your daughter??? Presumably doing A levels in a home where she is under direct threats of physical violence from her brother WHO IS BEING ENABLED BY BOTH OF HER PARENTS!! Sorry for shouting but that is what you are doing. You need to call the police now and report this. A trip to your GP tomorrow is pointless - if she has an injury then it's A & E now. I think you are diverting - thinking that you're doing something by taking her to the GP. You are not doing anything useful - just continuing to enable your son's abusive behaviour. I understand that he is your son but you must stop allowing him to believe that this dangerous behaviour is OK.

Call the police and report, insist that he leaves and then, if he's difficult, call the police again and change the locks.

[TheOptimisticPessimist]

I'd be distant from my brother too if he was abusive man like this and no amount of my parents telling me we should be close would change it.

I'd also be taking note of the fact that neither my mother nor my father was willing to do a damned thing to help me after he'd just strangled me and be out of the door like a shot the second I could.

Call. The. Police.

[Yseulte]

OP you do not have 'squabbling siblings' you have an abusive son who is terrorising your daughters. The 'widening gap' is caused by the abuse. In those circumstances therapy will never work.

I know it's hard but you have to be strong and protect your daughters. The home situation will be causing them stress and anxiety, it will be affecting their education and their own relationships with men.

Please call women's aid as you clearly need support.

[DoreenLethal]

Your daughter being dead would definitely fuck up everyone's life.

Make the call.

[suzannecaravaggio]

The dog (who should be lowest in the pecking order in his mind) has challenged his authority by violating his bed.
To try and rectify this big hit to his status he has had to assault and dominate the women

He really is a terrible liability with such a hair trigger

[ncpg53]

I was your daughter.

I'm the oldest sibling, my brother the youngest. From early on he was taught he was superior to us girls, he had rages from very young and used to do things like try to strangle me or suffocate me with a pillow at age 9. I was mid teens and fought back always resulting in me getting a slap from my mum.

I left that house as soon as I could. Several years later I found myself having to move back in temporarily along with my boyfriend. My brother now a late teen and sold build still having his rages only more aggressive.

One day he slapped my mum, I got involved just like your daughter. He forcefully shoved me then headbutted me and like your son disappeared out of the house. My mum and the rest of my family were all concerned about poor brother.

Me? I had to drive myself to hospital to have my two black eyes and broken nose seen to. I called the police but he denied it and my mum claimed not have seen anything and they took no action but I took some amount of shit from the rest of my family painting me the villain as I was screwing up his life by calling the police.

My dad hit the roof when he saw my face and it caused him and mum to split up. I left that house weeks later and now I don't have a relationship with either my mum or brother. Who is still exactly the same years down the line he's a vile human with a awful attitude filled with rage.

Please call the police, protect your daughter because if you don't your risking the relationship you have with her. Sadly you daughter won't have a relationship with her brother regardless of any therapy. She won't forget what he's like.

By enabling his behaviour letting him remain in the house your telling him he's the priority not your other kids. Do him a favour and give him the consequence of his actions

[Pinkfluffyglitteryunicorns11]

Kick him out today he's 22 FFS. Does he work? Pack him some stuff up now , lock the door and tell exh he can accommodate him as you have had enough and he won't be coming back!