My parents and DH

[Toraleistripe]

I will try and keep this short.

My parents are hard work. DM is controlling but PA and Dad is classic enabler, anything for an easy life. My relationship with them, particularly DM has often been fraught but I 'manage' it now. I live 200 miles away from them and keep contact on my terms. Also they do have their good points and they are my parents and I love them. The issues I have will never be resolved now, they are in their 70s and I have made my peace inside my head. Though they still drive me mad at times.

DH however......he struggles with all of it. He doesn't like they way they have treated me in the past. He gets very annoyed with them when they visit. They take over basically. If he raised it there would be a row. This happened a few years ago when he lost his temper after he was locked out the house because my mum had decided to tidy his keys away. Things were difficult after that and have never really recovered. I know the keys thing is trivial but it was the straw that broke the camels back situation.

We spent Xmas with them on neutral territory. DH didn't enjoy it all. He is quite a negative person at times unfortunately which doesn't help. He always interprets their actions as an attack on him. Sometimes he might be right but not always. Although they love our kids, they didn't really help us out with them over Xmas and it was exhausting, my mum 'rationed' the Xmas dinner by not allowing us to help ourselves ( she always puts it out tbh which I know is controlling), my Dad made a big thing of always sitting at the head of the table.....this pisses DH off. There was other trivial stuff which kind of built up.

I kind of let this stuff ride over me but DH has no reason to I guess. He thinks they treat us like kids and he is right to an extent. The problem is that when they visit DH just withdraws. He just goes out and hardly makes an effort to speak to them. It is so obvious. Makes it embarrassing for me. I just gloss over it and lie to parents, say he has stuff on etc. However DH is still angry about Xmas and I know next time they visit tensions will be high.

So I have controlling parents, a PA mum and a negative DH who borders on the paranoid ( who,e other thread). I find it all exhausting and don't know what to do.

There is no way I could open this up for discussion. My parents are so entrenched and will never acknowledge their faults. When DH tried to have an honest discussion with them it nearly destroyed my family tbh.

Any advice?

Honey I bet you don't want to deal with it. I'm also willing to bet your experience of standing up to your parents as a child was not good; you've been trained. However dh is telling you he is unhappy. Is 'no change' an option he's willing to go with? You may have to decide whether you're ok in the long term with sacrificing your relationship to enabling your parents to do their thing. If they love you why would they want to see your marriage damaged at the expense of their behaviour?

Have you thought about some counselling for yourself? Someone who can help you think this through and make some manageable plans to put down some boundaries?

Your parents still control you and in turn your own family unit even now; you have never been able to "manage" them because you've never been shown how to set or even maintain any boundaries when it comes to them.
They never allowed you to have boundaries.

Dealing with your own part in this overall dysfunctional dynamic is painful but it needs doing and now for your sake as well as your own family.

Even today as an adult, do you...

1. Feel disloyal when acting or feeling differently than your parents

1. Feel easily annoyed or impatient with your parents without knowing why

1. Feel confused by parental mixed messages

1. Are afraid to express your true feelings around your parents

1. Feel intimidated or belittled by your parents

1. Worry more about pleasing your parents than being yourself

1. Find it hard to emotionally separate from your parents

1. Talk to your parents more out of obligation than choice

1. Get tense when you think about being around your parents

10. Want to temporarily reduce or sever contact with a parent

Hello Madeline

Interesting that you do all those things but your DPs still act as if they are the most important people in your family.

The lines that maybe aren't being drawn, as Rumble and Attila mention, the fact that it's not ok to put the feelings of yourself and your DP second to the feelings of your parents consistently and that when confronted with behaviour that belittles and controls them, people are perfectly ok to both walk away from that behaviour and avoid it in the future, however that makes the person carrying out the bad behaviour feel.

You are still putting up with enough bad behaviour that it makes you stressed/anxious, and you are still expecting your DH to put up with enough of this type of behaviour that it makes him stressed and anxious (and sort of expecting him just to learn to endure it). So that woudl suggest you need tougher boundaries there. The boundaries are enough when you/DH no longer feel stressed/anxious!

The point is not to try to change the bad behaviour, but not expose yourself to it, or force anyone else to expose themselves to it.

Agree with Rumble- if the roles were reversed between you and your DP, the advice here would be very, very clear. That he doesn't need to go along with that and if he puts his parents before you he is neglecting his duties as a husband/father. The old saying "A son's your son til he finds him a wife, but a daughter's your daughter for the rest of your life" highlights a really interesting double standard. In this case, both you and DH get the short end of the stick.

Just to add: you mentioned that your dh trying to sit your parents down and have an honest discussion caused an almighty row. I'm going to guess from that that since dh was handling this in a mature, adult way by trying to discuss matters with them that it means your parents raised the roof. So their behaviour works well to intimidate you into not wanting to challenge them and definitely not wanting dh to challenge them. Are you afraid of losing them if dh doesn't accept their behaviour quietly?

I am admiring the open minded and calm way you're listening to and engaging with the range of views on this thread.

Ask your dh what he wants you to do. Come up with a plan together.

Ok thanks. So much to consider........I am a coward. I have been keeping a lid on this but not sure I can ever deal with it effectively. The control is so insidious. You wouldn't have noticed it when I was growing up.

Reading my diary. Using things in it to throw back in my face. Changing the boundaries so was allowed to stay out one night but not the next, was never sure. My mums horrible temper. Calling me names. Weeping when I went off to uni as she thought I should stay at home. Tons of stuff. I have lived away for years. She always has an opinion on what I do and says it even when it is hurtful. She is constantly berating me for not visiting them enough but when I do she spends her whole time cleaning up around me so we feel in the way and unwelcome, she takes offence if my kids aren't all over her when she visits.

She's very damaged. In professional terms she has some attachment issues from her own childhood and as an adult is anxious, negative and passive aggressive.

She has some good points. My don't want NC. I'm am an only. My sister died in childhood and parents are bereaved. I feel bad for them and am all they have.

Shit. I didn't want all this to come rolling out on here. I feel disloyal. Am I overreacting? Things changed for me when I lost a baby and it became all out DM. I set more boundaries albeit unconsciously. Obviously more work to do......

Some good advice on this thread.

If someone "accidentally" locked me out of my own house, combined with the other behaviours, I would not invite them inside it EVER AGAIN. I cannot believe they have actually done this to your partner TWICE and you are still expecting him to accept visits - and not just accept them, but be polite and pleasant as well.

I think you need to do a lot of work on yourself to understand your parents' negative impact on you and how you can overcome it. I agree with the PPs who suggested seeing a counsellor to discuss it. I also think reading "Toxic Parents" and maybe posting on the Stately Homes would be helpful.

You owe it to yourself, your partner and your children to recognise and manage their negative impact on your lives. You absolutely have to prioritise this family unit over your parents, even if that means going no contact or strictly limiting contact.

I'm surprised that you're still talking about spending next Christmas with them, but I think that shows how far you still have to go.

What about your DH's parents? Are they around and do you see them?

Cross post but mine still stands.

No you're not overreacting or disloyal

Please listen: You are an adult, you owe your parents nothing (save for common kindness that you'd afford anyone). They chose to have you. They were not good parents. You have a life of your own. A family of your own. That is your priority. You need to unshackle yourself of the guilt and fear. Have you had a counselling? A great counsellor will help you immeasurably on your journey to detach.

So many really good points already made, especially from Francis.

I just want to add, has already been said, your DH is your future and your DC father. Every time your parents treat him badly and are not pulled up on it what is that doing to your nuclear family dynamic.

Yes I get that arguing or discussing anything with your parents will not change them or their behaviour. However expecting/wanting/asking your DH to put up with spending people who are disrespectful to you, to him and presumably the DC as well because you feel obligated to them...

Do you really love them, or is it deep ingrained enabling obligation - FOG?

Yes agree great advice here I too agree, how can u possibly "accidentally" lock someone out? Twice?? and then he's meant to laugh it off and be cool about it? then there's the rest.....
It does sound like you've got sm homework to do! but have u not yet mentioned why you always spend Xmas with them? Is it out of sm warped sense of duty? To avoid upsetting them? Bet your poor husband dreads it and has HIS Xmas spoilt every yr!
Not gonna reiterate wot others have said, I'm sure you've got a lot to digest frm wise posters on here....but just cos your parents are elderly, had a past bereavement and are set in their ways does NOT mean their bad behaviour should be tolerated, all for a quiet life and to keep them happy. Bollocks to that! Atrocious state of affairs and I'm glad people on here have highlighted that for you.

Thanks. We go to DHs family every other year. That is Ok to a point!

I am signing off now. Some useful input. I can't afford a counsellor btw! I need to think about a strategy.

Some GP surgeries have a counsellor you can see for free - see if yours does. The sessions will probably have a time limit but it would be better than nothing.

And do your own "homework", read the Toxic Parents book.

This is vitally important for your marriage and your family (by family I mean you, DH and the DCs). If you can't get free counselling and are still struggling to agree with DH on how to set boundaries with your parents, please do consider paying for counselling. I understand the cost is off putting but think about it this way: it's cheaper than divorce. I'm not saying it will come to that, but your DH will be (rightfully) very unhappy if you continue to prioritise your parents over him.

I've had counselling and it's still.taken an age to fully accept how controlling and critical my parents are (particularly my mother) to be honest the advice on here on all.things has been as useful.as any counselling at times ..I will read all of the above with care later thank you for posting
My husband can't stand my parents, he deals with them by using humour whilst at the same time not letting them get away with certain comments, thankfully he loves me and sticks with me, they have caused a lot of difficulties between and arguments.

DM is always unkind about my hair sounds trivial but it's out of order and she's done it for years , last weekend she made a comment and I gave her such a stare she gulped and apologised ..small steps
We do xmas every other year I still feel.a duty at xmas , it's a family time after all

A different strategy is indeed needed but I think you will need help in coming up with one of these anyway due to your parents controlling behaviours. Certainly what you have tried to date has not worked.

NHS counselling can be too limited in scope, has lengthy waiting lists and could offer only a few sessions.

BACP may be able to help you but therapists are like shoes; you need to find someone who fits. Many do offer a sliding scale of fees so lack of funds may not be a huge problem.

I would suggest you also read "If you had controlling parents" written by Dr Dan Neuharth.

Just catching up with the updates to the thread today. I think its all, or almost all, really good advice. I understand that it will seem like a bit much to the OP, who has some way to go. My question is whether you can afford to not work through this. Have you thought about the alternatives? If someone could wave a magic want, what would you have happen?

Would you like DH to roll over and join in, appeasing your parents? What about your DC, would you like them to join in, too? Or could you find the strength, with DH, to find a way to break the chain?

I would start by showing DH this thread, or maybe edited highlights and asking him what he thinks. What would he do from here? All the best.

P.s. Watch out for that automatic response that you can't afford something that might help, that might be part of the problem. If it were presented as a life saving medicine, would you be able to 'afford' it? Not some quack remedy but a real solution? You are, at any rate, worth it, for yourself, your DH and your DC.

My DH doesn't like my DM for lots of reasons, most of them justified. She's my Mum, so I put up with it - which is my choice. However I don't expect him to do so.

It was very hard at first because I felt stuck in the middle. But as time went on I realised that I was allowing myself to be placed in this position because I was trying to create a 'family' situation where everyone got together and got on. This completely overlooked the fact that my DH just didn't want to be there and was not prepared to not react to my DM if she started behaving badly.

Things improved quite dramatically when I stopped trying to faciliate and negotiate and took a step back from it all. Sometimes people just don't like each other. My relationship with my DM is complex - there was also bereavement in our history so I probably have an over-developed sense of obligation and duty. However if my DM oversteps in relation to my DH then I don't hesitate to call her out on it, so DH knows that although I find it difficult to stand up for myself, I will always do so for him.

My advice would be to stop trying to get everyone to get on and spend time together. Your relationship with your DPs sounds difficult anyway, but if you want to continue to see them, then I would visit your DPs yourself and leave your DH out of it.

Some great advice - please do NOT make your DH or Kids have to spend another Christmas with them.

I'm very sorry to hear about your sister, and your baby

Agree with PPs that paid-for counselling - if not available on the NHS or through work - would be a good investment!

You've set some boundaries already by moving and staying away - you can do this!