My parents and DH

[Toraleistripe]

I will try and keep this short.

My parents are hard work. DM is controlling but PA and Dad is classic enabler, anything for an easy life. My relationship with them, particularly DM has often been fraught but I 'manage' it now. I live 200 miles away from them and keep contact on my terms. Also they do have their good points and they are my parents and I love them. The issues I have will never be resolved now, they are in their 70s and I have made my peace inside my head. Though they still drive me mad at times.

DH however......he struggles with all of it. He doesn't like they way they have treated me in the past. He gets very annoyed with them when they visit. They take over basically. If he raised it there would be a row. This happened a few years ago when he lost his temper after he was locked out the house because my mum had decided to tidy his keys away. Things were difficult after that and have never really recovered. I know the keys thing is trivial but it was the straw that broke the camels back situation.

We spent Xmas with them on neutral territory. DH didn't enjoy it all. He is quite a negative person at times unfortunately which doesn't help. He always interprets their actions as an attack on him. Sometimes he might be right but not always. Although they love our kids, they didn't really help us out with them over Xmas and it was exhausting, my mum 'rationed' the Xmas dinner by not allowing us to help ourselves ( she always puts it out tbh which I know is controlling), my Dad made a big thing of always sitting at the head of the table.....this pisses DH off. There was other trivial stuff which kind of built up.

I kind of let this stuff ride over me but DH has no reason to I guess. He thinks they treat us like kids and he is right to an extent. The problem is that when they visit DH just withdraws. He just goes out and hardly makes an effort to speak to them. It is so obvious. Makes it embarrassing for me. I just gloss over it and lie to parents, say he has stuff on etc. However DH is still angry about Xmas and I know next time they visit tensions will be high.

So I have controlling parents, a PA mum and a negative DH who borders on the paranoid ( who,e other thread). I find it all exhausting and don't know what to do.

There is no way I could open this up for discussion. My parents are so entrenched and will never acknowledge their faults. When DH tried to have an honest discussion with them it nearly destroyed my family tbh.

Any advice?

I think your parents sound snidey and toxic. I certainly dont tink you should be expecting your dh to put up with people who treat him badly

The head of the table thing does sound petty but in context it isn't. It is on the back of tons of other incidents, that was just an example. They have locked him out twice. It was described as an accidental and am sure they didn't consciously think they would lock him out of his own house. But at some level I think it demonstrates how they view him.

Honestly there are loads of incidents that alone seem trivial but over the years have built resentment.

Actually everone. When you say 'set boundaries' what do you mean? I understand the concept but how do I apply it to my situation?

Plating up dinners is just the way some people have always done their dinners!

Very true. At Christmas in our house, each person gets given their dinner on a plate. There are not loads of plates and bowls where people help themselves. It cuts down on waste and we always check who likes what and if anyone wants extra Yorkshire's etc. It is not about control.

The head of the table thing does sound petty but in context it isn't.

I disagree with this actually. I don't agree with the whole Head of the Table thing anyway, but it is a clear power play from your DF, that while he is in your house, he over rules your husband. If anyone came in to my house and declared they were now the most important in the house, they would be leaving.

And that is just one example. I'm not surprised your DH is negative towards them. Is he generally negative, or just around your parents?

Yes it's true about dinners for some people. You are missing the point. These are just little examples. It's a drip drip drip thing and is very wearing. If you are doubting that my DM is controlling I could reel off hundreds of more serious examples but honestly you don't need to hear it. Why can't you trust me when I say she is controlling?

francesdesale and fantasticbuttocks have it.

You are expecting your DH to put up with your parents' behaviour like you do. But this is the thing with in-law relations: they are your parents, not his. Minor stuff you do just put up with for the sake of your partner. But this isn't minor and he is right to draw a line.

If you are going to shirk confrontation (and I get the whole "they're not going to change now" point), then you need to adjust your MO so that your partner isn't in the firing line. It can't continue as is. francesdesales has excellent practical tips.

FWIW I am in exactly the same situation as you. I deal with it by keeping contact between my parents and DH to a minimum. It's not fair on him otherwise. Why should he gave to put up with their shit? So I take DC down to visit my parents, he will stay a couple of nights to do his duty then go off and do his own thing (usually time away with his friends). Works really well.

Hello Madeline

By setting boundaries, I mean a few things:

1. It can be something simple like setting limits on the length of time spent in their company (e.g. no overnight stays, always have somewhere to move on to), or defining where you will meet (e.g. only on neutral territory, not at their home and not asking them into your home, especially if certain other things are not respected)
2. But it also means deciding what kind of behaviour you will and won't accept, and acting on that accordingly. It's about accepting you can;t control their behaviour but you can control your own, and that you have a right to decide how you are treated. For example, if your parents are rude to you or DH, you would decide to leave. If they are continually controlling about meals, you might decide no to eat with them, or only eat with them at a restaurant (whilst being aware of the control opportunities there).

I'm sure that there are other things that people will mention (I'm not hugely good at setting boundaries myself) but that's the kind of thing Iw oudl start with.

DF also sits in the 'most comfortable' and best seat in the front room. Every time. It becomes his place to sit. I understand why he wants the nicest chair but it is a bit presumptuous that he claims it.

They bring their own food. Why I don't know. DF is fussy apparently but why bring your own food on a visit?

I won't bother going i to how unsupportive they were when I had a miscarriage and it became all about how upset DM was.

Thanks PitPat. I do visit them without DH. He goes out usually when they visit. We eat in restaurants now to avoid the whole food issue. Xmas was a bad idea as we were all cooped up. Hired a cottage by the sea but it don't work as it rained all day so had nowhere to go and there wasn't much space to get away from each other. Next time will do it differently.

Thanks everyone all of this is so helpful.

But why have Xmas together at all? Surely you must have foreseen there would be problems? Why go back for more next time, although slightly differently?

Learning to set boundaries and enforce boundaries can be tough. We don’t know what is too strict a boundary, what is too lax; we are conditioned to permit any kind of intrusion into our privacy, any kind of control, and sometimes it is difficult for us to even recognize these incursions.

Boundaries are often difficult to deal with because we equate them with rejection and we are conditioned to put the feelings of others before our own…and we therefore fear that setting a boundary with someone will be perceived as a rejection.

Dysfunctional families are often dysfunctional in large part because they don't set healthy boundaries. As a result, during their crucial years of development, the children of…dysfunctional parents very frequently are rejected by their loved ones. Children from dysfunctional families commonly develop a hypersensitivity to rejection as a result. Because setting boundaries is alien to us and because we, unlike our dysfunctional parents, retain our compassion and empathy, setting a boundary may feel like a rejection to us. We feel like we are rejecting the person (or people) who would be most affected by our boundary and we feel guilty for it despite the fact that boundary setting is actually healthy for us and for the people we expect to respect it.

1. Though I agree with Francis' post and those saying they understand your dh's POV: I'd add to the management plan that dh MUST be civil and engage with them in the short bursts you see them - for you OP, not your parents. Because it stresses you out.

1. Head of the table? Sexist shit from the dark ages (sorry can't help saying that).

1. I think you really REALLY need to wrap your head around the fact that you are an adult with your own family. Your family come before your parents. That is the natural way of the world. No matter that they don't see it. It's true. They should NOT take up this much head space or so much of your time. Their time is gone - they brought you into this world, they brought you up, now you are living your own life, your way, with your rules. Your kids will also go on to live their own lives and the circle of life continues

Yes it is sexist. DH knows this too. It's more the fact that DF automatically takes this position on a table, any table, even in my house. Whether DH sits at head of table or not ( and he doesn't usually) DF attaches a significance to it and then asserts himself by sitting there.

Yes I understand why it was an issue for your DH. I know what you are saying. I just couldn't help myself! If my DH ever said he was head of the table I'd throw roast potatoes at him and push him off the chair

What does your df do with a round table? Is that a solution?

Yes a round table might be an idea! At least it would help with the meal time issue.

It's interesting to see the difference in advice. This is the opposite situation to the one most often seen on the boards here where the dh is enmeshed with controlling and difficult parents and is unwilling to put any boundaries down or protect wife and children from behaviour his partner is finding invasive, rude, stressful and intolerable. And the dh would usually like his partner to just accept 'they mean well' and be a good girl and let them walk all over her like they do him. Essentially it usually boils down to FOG. Fear, obligation and guilt, and the advice is usually:

1. Your husband's parents are his problem, minimise your contact with them. If he is willing to accept their behaviour he can go and visit them alone much of the time and stop expecting you to present yourself to them so they can indulge their habit of making you miserable.

2. Explain to your husband that while he can choose what he is prepared to put up with, you are not willing to let them treat you like this and it's hurtful and damaging to your relationship and your trust in him and respect for him that he is a) not listening to you or believing you (or seeing it as a problem or priority to him) when you say you find this intolerable, and b) is happy for them to make you upset and stressed so long as he can preserve his normal relationship with his parents without changing anything. And btw he doesn't want you to talk about not being happy or to show not being happy please because that makes him uncomfortable.

3. Your husband needs to realise that his primary family is now you and his children, and that has to be the priority to him. Not his parents. What they want and need come second now to the interests of his partner and children.

Some women here on these threads have talked about reaching the point of having to say to an enmeshed husband, "It's them or me" as the inlaws' involvement has damaged their relationship so much.

You're seeing your husband's refusal to join you in your FOG as negative behaviour. He is actually behaving in a normal, healthy way to people invading his home, treating him disrespectfully and controllingly and not treating his partner well. To expect him to not feel that way and act on those feelings is a sign of how FOGged you are and how trained by your parents to leave normal relationship rules and boundaries aside and let them do their thing.

Being locked out of his own home twice - well yes maybe they didn't mean to do that to him exactly but I'm sure it felt to him like he'd been made powerless and dominated, physically excluded and the victim of their fiddling about with his home. The actions matter less than the feelings they caused and he isn't going to just get over it. Your father is making direct and overt powerplays to demonstrate to him that there is one alpha male in the family group and it ain't him, and in his own home your DF comes first and he'll be relegated. He is trying to tell you he feels pushed out, belittled, it does NOT feel good to him and he is unhappy. You're seeing him as behaving badly for having those feelings and not embracing the bullying and being ok with it. Your priority seems to be your parents' feelings and not obstructing their behaviour - which you perceive as impossible to challenge or resist or do anything but accept, you concede them all the power in the relationship. And yet it is clear in some of your phrasings that you too are frustrated and annoyed by what they do at times and don't enjoy it.

The reverse of what is said so often on these threads is true: in this case your dh has a dw problem. Have you tried reading Toxic Parents by Susan Forward.

Realised my post was a bit unclear! What I meant was, I disagree that the table thing is petty! It's not, the sole purpose is to show your DH who is boss now.

DON'T BUY A ROUND TABLE! You say your DF is a classic enabler, you are enabling your parents. You and your family are a separate unit. Can you not see that?

In my house, we take turns to sit on the big chair at the head of the table. So last night it was dd aged 5.

You could do one thing right now to reset the boundaries. Ask your DH what he would like to do for Christmas.

Oh and I agree with others about the table. Your dad is much, much more than an enabler. He has his own way of showing his SonIL who is top dog. Your mum does it to you by taking over "your" kitchen. For them it is all about territory. And you let them do it.

Rumble. I can't disagree with any of that. I suppose me 'managing' the relationship isn't really true. Just not sure I want to deal with this. I don't think it will change.

Your DH has heard about and observed how your parents have treated you. He is trying to back you up, but you appear to be throwing that back in your face. Why do your toxic parents take precedent over your husband?

*his face