My parents and DH

[Toraleistripe]

I will try and keep this short.

My parents are hard work. DM is controlling but PA and Dad is classic enabler, anything for an easy life. My relationship with them, particularly DM has often been fraught but I 'manage' it now. I live 200 miles away from them and keep contact on my terms. Also they do have their good points and they are my parents and I love them. The issues I have will never be resolved now, they are in their 70s and I have made my peace inside my head. Though they still drive me mad at times.

DH however......he struggles with all of it. He doesn't like they way they have treated me in the past. He gets very annoyed with them when they visit. They take over basically. If he raised it there would be a row. This happened a few years ago when he lost his temper after he was locked out the house because my mum had decided to tidy his keys away. Things were difficult after that and have never really recovered. I know the keys thing is trivial but it was the straw that broke the camels back situation.

We spent Xmas with them on neutral territory. DH didn't enjoy it all. He is quite a negative person at times unfortunately which doesn't help. He always interprets their actions as an attack on him. Sometimes he might be right but not always. Although they love our kids, they didn't really help us out with them over Xmas and it was exhausting, my mum 'rationed' the Xmas dinner by not allowing us to help ourselves ( she always puts it out tbh which I know is controlling), my Dad made a big thing of always sitting at the head of the table.....this pisses DH off. There was other trivial stuff which kind of built up.

I kind of let this stuff ride over me but DH has no reason to I guess. He thinks they treat us like kids and he is right to an extent. The problem is that when they visit DH just withdraws. He just goes out and hardly makes an effort to speak to them. It is so obvious. Makes it embarrassing for me. I just gloss over it and lie to parents, say he has stuff on etc. However DH is still angry about Xmas and I know next time they visit tensions will be high.

So I have controlling parents, a PA mum and a negative DH who borders on the paranoid ( who,e other thread). I find it all exhausting and don't know what to do.

There is no way I could open this up for discussion. My parents are so entrenched and will never acknowledge their faults. When DH tried to have an honest discussion with them it nearly destroyed my family tbh.

Any advice?

Francisdesales has said it all - especially A (which is what I was coming on here to say), but actually all of it is great advice. Mumsnet should cut and paste that somewhere for posterity as a cut out and keep guide.
Read the start of your post - your relationship has always been fraught, but you manage it now. You've got your own family now, you are grown up. Put them first - don't mess up the dynamic in your own family in order to keep fitting in with their broken dynamic.

Yes shared Xmas situations will be done differently next time. We shared it this year and they have been to us. Neither worked. Next time we will stay in a hotel and visit them.

Thing is, some of the poor behaviour DH experiences, I just don't notice . I am so used to it! And sometimes I don't think it is as bad as he says. However there is a lack of respect there. Materially my parents have given us loads and I know this would be thrown back in my face if I ever tried to address this stuff. I know.........typical toxic behaviour.

Looking at it objectively. Due to my DMs own childhood issues she has grown up controlling and damaged. my Dad is her enabler. God I sound awful. They have their good points but it has been hard for me over the years.

Actually the reserve thing is useful.

My PILs visit us regularly. They are very PA. They take over the house to the point they even cook tea. They tidy my stuff away without asking and deny they have touched it. They once locked me out and didn't acknowledge it was their fault.

My partner just puts up with them and refuses to challenge their behaviour. I have a lot of resentment towards them and find partner unsupportive. My strategy is to withdraw and simply keep my distance but partner simply wants me to pretend their is no issue and just indulge them.

Hmmmmmm. Useful.

Your DH is helping you identify the areas which really are not healthy in how your family relate. You are not required to change how you behave but neither is he. Respect that he has healthy boundaries that maybe you struggle to enforce.

France's. You are so right.

Some great advice on here. Thanks all. It has really helped. A good use of my early Sunday wake up!

Kids up now though.....upwards and onwards.

I have found in DHs family there is a lot of pretending going on. His mum once told me she would prefer DH lie to her than tell her something painful.

I'm with your DH - they sound awful. My MIL would be like that if we let her, her behaviour has caused a few rows in the past.

I wouldn't let my parents treat my husband like that, but then I wouldn't let them treat me like that either! I don't think it is too late to change things as long as you do things a little at a time and then at least DH will see that you are supporting him.

In the meantime, just continue going up to see them with the children. Alternate Christmas, so that your DH has every other one off and maybe if your children are old enough, go out for Christmas lunch?

"Yes shared Xmas situations will be done differently next time. We shared it this year and they have been to us. Neither worked. Next time we will stay in a hotel and visit them."

Why see them at all at Christmas? I'm sorry but I'm with your DH here, he's clearly putting up with a lot.

Who is insisting you spend Christmas together? Is it your parents? It's definitely not DH. Why don't you see them in the week between Christmas and New Year and have a less stressful time of it? Or is that not allowed?

I have same parents and husband issues
Marking my place

Materially my parents have given us loads and I know this would be thrown back in my face if I ever tried to address this stuff.

So what? These issues do need airing if you insist on seeing them so often.

Materially my parents have given us loads and I know this would be thrown back in my face if I ever tried to address this stuff. I know.........typical toxic behaviour. You said it.
Looking at it objectively. Due to my DMs own childhood issues she has grown up controlling and damaged. Be careful that your "childhood issues" ie your relationship with your parents don't damage your relationship with you DH and your own family.

It just goes to show how much your DH loves you to put up with that and how co ditioned you are to start a thread because you don't think he's doing enough!

You've got yourself an amazing DH there

This is all very difficult for you. I'd encourage you, though, to notice how you trivialise your parent's encroachment on your DP's territory. You write that DP was locked out of the house because my mother tidied away his keys and that DP's place at the table is literally usurped by your DF . I'm thinking the man is a saint to just go distant when they visit. He is right when he says you are allowing them to treat you and him as kids. Fine when you are their dependents, but now?

It's only fair that you acknowledge that these are hugh things for your DP to be subjected to. I really think it behooves you to notice this and get on his side, not trivialise it, as if it were only to be expected. At least the place at table can be sorted out straight away.

Once you have been clear to DP that you have his back, please start considering yourself as an adult who deserves to be treated well, too, by anyone but especially visitors and hosts. Appeasing never got anyone anywhere.

It took my DP to point out to me lots of things i was doing to appease my parents. He humoured me for a while, til i found the nerve to start treating them as adults and expecting the same from them. We have a much better relationship all round now. I was honestly scared of how they would react and did believe how well it would work, once i changed and stopped appeasing them 'for a quiet life'.

Your parents may well be a tougher nut to crack, please prioritise yourself and your DP. All the best.

Why don't you give your whole family a lovely Christmas and leave your parents to do their own thing. Your poor DH deserves to look forward to Christmas with his own family as much as they do.

I think all 4 of you are "at fault" here and contributing to the situation.

My mil attempts to be very controlling and fil is an enabler. They are a problem. Unlike your dh, who I also see as a problem, for the most part, I let it all wash over me and ignore most of it. For all their faults they have a wonderful son. However, if they push my boundaries then dh knows that I am the priority and doesn't put me in situations that will just piss me off even more. You can't manage your parents behaviour but what you can do is be clear with them on boundaries. Quite frankly you're not helping the situation by pandering to their bullshit and not drawing boundaries. If your dh can see you have done this then he ought to manage his behaviour by at least supporting you.

I was going to suggest trying to see it in reverse but I see you've already done that!

TBH I think its massively unfair to ask your DH to paint a smile on in the face of people who constantly disrespect him. Be thankful that he's at least trying for you, and all he tends to do is back or stay away from them. I would suspect that is his version of painting a smile on for you.

With regards to money: my ILs and I have a decent enough relationship most of the time but MIL has overstepped the mark on occasion. One time it massively came to a head. DH relayed a message to her that if she ever came into our house and said anything similar, especially in front of our kids when she knows I wouldn't stoop low enough to argue back, then she wouldn't be welcome again nor would we trust her unsupervised with the kids. She was shocked, and the money argument was trotted out. The message that went back was simple: money you've gifted us does not buy you the right to be nasty and disrespectful and if you think it does we'll arrange to pay you back every last penny and cut ties. At that point FIL finally stepped in and told her to wind her neck in. There has only been one minor incident since then.

It sounds as though you have a dysfunctional relationship with your difficult family. And you'd like your DH to learn how to operate accordingly! Sorry but i disagree that he should fit in with all this.

Your parents sound rude, and in order to keep the peace, and because this is 'normal' to you, your priority to keep them happy overrides your loyalty to your own husband. These are not healthy dynamics.

I wouldn't want to be in his shoes.

I think you need to allow your DH to have Xmas with just his immediate family and stop him having to see them, go to see them at their house just you and the kids. Who is more important - him or them? I was your DH and our relationship is so much better now they are not interfering in our lives and our relationship. I got to the point after many years and trying to accept them and then trying to fix it etc that I couldn't take any more negativity and criticism from them. You might find if you do this for your DH he is much happier and you are happier together as a result.

All this crap about the head of the table sounds ridiculous. Your dh seems to be pissed off that he is not treated as top dog when they are around as they are similarly ridiculous about being in charge. Whilst I understand that they have been a bit pita you may be reading stuff into what they do. Plating up dinners is just the way some people have always done their dinners! My mum does this, not because she wants to control people but just because it saves extra washing up on serving dishes and she comes from a background where this has always been done like this. To see this as evidence of being controlling sounds far fetched. Whatever the issues of the past it sounds like you live miles away and don't see them often. Your dh needs to stop acting like an arse when they visit. Yes he should be able to put on a smile and be gracious for the short time they are with you. The fact that he won't indicates to me that he is using your ambivalent feelings about them to give him an excuse for being a twat. I would imagine that he has never really liked them, likes things to be on his terms. I say this as it sounds similar to the situation with my family. I ended up putting my foot down and telling dp that he would bloody well make an effort regardless of his feelings. holding a grudge about keys and not being able to sit at the head of the table is simply ludicrous.

Agree with FrancesdeSales

Also agree with pp that you need to talk to your DH about this, in order to jointly strategise about how you best go forward with your parents. It's possible that if you let him air his feelings, and air yours that you could make some progress there. He might be prepared to play along more if you allow him to set some boundaries about duration/place of contact etc.

My SIL is very PA and controlling. She has really hurt me in the past on 3 or 4 occasions, so I am nervous about going into her company at all, as I'm on my guard for her being hurtful again. Perhaps this is part of your DH's response to them.

She's the sort of person that if she wasn't family, I'd just totally avoid. But tht can;t really be done due to family events. It has gotten a lot easier for me as now DH and I talk about how we are going to handle it in advance. We cover things like:

1. She's got form for being hurtful when DH isn't there e.g. he's gone to the loo. So we identify other family members who will also be there who DH knows are aware of how she can be and are likely to stand for none of it (certain aunts and uncles, one of his mum's close friends). So I go and chat to them if he pops away etc. We've also identified family members around whom she is likely to be bolder or who enable her (e.g. FIL) so I avoid being around both of them at once. Her husband is very much in the "will intervene" camp so that is a blessing.
2. We limit time- always have somewhere else to go on to at a specific time.
3. If she starts, he pulls her up quick smart, and if I feel it's appropriate, we go. This means he pays a wee bit more attention to her than he usually would- he learned to block it out growing up, so when we first got together he genuinely wouldn't see her antics right away. But now he keeps an eye out for my sake, so I don't have to point it out and also so I don't feel I just have to soldier on if she starts sniping.

You mention that there is stuff that smarts with your DH that you don't notice and just think of as normal. I would suggest adjusting your settings so to speak, so you do notice it. Then he might feel like he's not in it on his own. That might make it easier for him to play along to a limited extent, an extent with pre-discussed and well-defined boundaries.

I do t think your dh has done anything wrong really. If I were him, I wouldn't be spending my precious days off over Christmas putting up with your parents treating me and my wife like shit. In front of my children.

The thing with the keys might have been trivial if it wasn't keys. If it were his lip balm they had 'tidied' away. But keys are significant as they have stopped him entering and leaving his own home. It's more of a power thing.

I wouldn't see them at all at Xmas
Why should your families time be spoiled
See them at a different time without DH

Another one on your DH's "side". I think you should stand up to your parents more.

Point two below here for you is very relevant:-

1. You Aren't Responsible For What Your Parents Did To You As a Child, They Are

2) You Are Responsible For What You Do With Your Life Now, Your Parents Aren't

What FrancisdeSales wrote earlier; her excellent points A to E are those that you really do need to heed.

Healing from growing up controlled as you were (and still are) has three steps:

Step One: Emotionally leaving home by separating from the hurtful aspects of your upbringing, parents and family role.

Step Two: Bringing balance to your relationship with your parents.

Step Three: Redefining your life.

You've done step 1 but steps 2 and 3 are yet to be completed.

When you’re emotionally wounded by a controlling childhood, "cleaning" the wound means facing your true past and speaking about it. And the "bandage" or "cast" that protects these wounds from further injury is emotionally leaving home. This doesn’t necessarily mean a physical separation from your parents, but it may entail letting go of counterproductive links with them and your upbringing.

You cannot mend a broken bone faster by telling it to "heal quicker." Healing a broken leg means wearing a cast, which can make walking difficult. Similarly, emotional healing may mean changes in habits that at first feel awkward.

Like physical healing, emotional healing can happen 24 hours a day without conscious effort. You may not know exactly how a cut heals; you just notice that each day it gets a little healthier. Similarly, people who begin emotionally separating from a controlled upbringing frequently notice over time that they develop more positive values and a greater sense of freedom, often without knowing precisely how.

Emotional separation opens the way for you to bring balance to your relationship with your parents, whether they are living or dead. Emotional separation also permits you to redefine your life and yourself in terms of who you really are and where you really want to go, not in terms of your parents or your past.

This type of dysfunction does filter down the generations; their families were likely the same to them too.

You're still playing a role in your parents dysfunctional relationship by having no real boundaries here along with pandering to them, no wonder your DH is fed up because he has seen how you have been treated by your parents and still are. You're still playing out the same roles here within that particular dynamic even as an adult. You're still seeking their approval as an adult.

If they were not good parents to you they are not really good examples of grandparents to your children either.

I do not think you have managed fully to let this ride over you at all; you're still seeing them for instance.

Your DHs main error here has been to actually try and get your parents to see the errors of their ways; I can see why he did that because he likely comes from an emotionally healthy family. However, the normal rules of familial engagement get thrown out the window when it comes to families of origin like yours.

Also it should be pointed out that controlling behaviour is infact abusive behaviour. Your father is also a bystander; he has acted out of self preservation and want of a quiet life. Like many such weak men to such narcissistic women, he may see his wife as someone to idolise. He is also really her hatchet man who can never be at all relied upon either.

I would also suggest you seek out a psychotherapist and one who has vast experience of working with adult children of controlling family structures,
Do also look at and consider posting on the "Stately Homes" thread and read "If you had controlling parents" written by Dr Dan Neuharth.