DH is passive. I like to get things done. Cue fights <sigh>

[SSDD8]

I am so fed up of going round in circles with the same old fight.

I used to do everything around the house, but since last summer (and reading Wifework!) I've been stepping back a bit, especially on things that really should be DH's responsibility (such as sorting things out for his side of the family). So. Latest row has just gone like this:

• In late December, we found out some things had to be sorted for DH's DPs (that they can't do themselves). I would have got it all sorted in about 30 minutes of emailing.

• early Jan, I put a 'reminder' in our shared calendar for DH to do it. Didn't get done.

• last week, I ask DH if he will do it. "Yes" he says. Didn't get done.

• Monday, I asked him to do it yesterday and made him promise. Didn't get done.

• Today, I get annoyed by broken promise and his general inertia (with everything, he has to be told to clean the house etc, will never ever just get up and do it himself) and so brought it up again.

It soon escalated into a huge row. I told him he is passive, lazy, and I am fed up of having to do all the thinking and doing in the house. I said that how he puts things off has both embarrassed me (he never wrote his wedding thank you cards "I said thanks, why do I have to write a card as well") and affects us because instead of just doing X and getting it done, he puts it off until X has turned into XYZ and the thing that needs doing is even bigger. The problem is that his refusal to get things done often has negative implications for me too.

In return, he called me a martyr and a control freak and told me to 'go away' (charming! ). Mostly though, he just continued on his laptop - his passivity extends to not even making eye contact during a row discussion, because he doesn't like conflict.

I accept, I am very organised, I like to tick off my to-do lists and so the total opposite of him. Yeah maybe I am a control freak because generally my way of doing things is efficient and the best! I accept I will never change him or even understand him. What can I do to help myself let things go a bit more?

Actually Well, the good points list is very similar as well. Very much shared values, he does work hard, he is very supportive of what I do, and so on. I just want him to buck up a bit. And yes he has had people take advantage of his good nature at work, he used to come home and have a moan and I would say, "well of course you need to speak to your boss and discuss it", but he never did, because he didn't want to "rock the boat" and was worried they wouldn't renew his contract if they thought of him as a 'troublemaker' - yet five years running now he's been graded the best in his department! Still never moans or complains to them though.

Potato I have had the same thing too "Can you ring me to remind me to do X?", I also said, "then I may as well do it myself! Put it in your calendar".

Thanks for the chat Well and everyone else for your suggestions, you have really helped me work through my thoughts. I wasn't sure whether or not to post but glad I did.

I think there are two people at fault here.

First, I think your DH is being lazy.

Second, it is exhausting living with someone who fires a constant stream of 'jobs' at you from their super organised schedule.

You both need to move towards each other. I suggest he is a set of scheduled boring tasks he does on autopilot on a regular basis, plus jobs he likes. That leaves you more time to deal with all the irregular stuff.

Sometimes a person who is forever on a mission to keep everybody organised can come across as harassment to the recipients.

It works for me and DW. I have never written a thank you note in my life but then again she has never cooked a meal. We share ironing, laundry, childcare. I do all DIY and gardening because I like that and she sorts out the bills and admin because she likes that.

This is what my dad is like OP. I can absolutely guarantee that you will be having exactly the same conversations in 45 years that you are now.

I have no idea why you think he's going to change. I've no idea why you think that anything that comes from you is going to make a difference. This is who he is. You either accept him as he is and put up with it for good or you get out.

I used to wonder my mum didn't allow my dad to just muddle through in his own time-frame. I thought she was bossy and controlling.

But then I worked on a project with my dad myself, and now I totally understand: if you don't micromanage him, nothing gets done. In the end it's quicker to leave him out of the loop and do everything yourself. That leaves you feeling pissed off because you're carrying everything while he coasts along in your wake.

Once you have kids it will get so much worse, because kids' lives have to be organised to schedule. You will be carrying an extra child.

I think you are totally overkill about the thank you notes.

I think his relationship with his parents is his problem.

I left my PA husband in the end but if you aren't there yet you absolutely have to stop taking responsibility for him and micromanaging him.

The thank you notes was just an example of something that embarrassed me. His family were exceedingly generous to us. The least he could have done was spend 5 minutes to send them a card.

ABeta, we did try that. But then, even with a list of "his" chores, I would still have to tell him to do them. He will never, ever spring out of bed in the morning and say, "I'm going to do X task today." Whereas I will, even if it's a boring spring clean or clean the bathroom or what have you. As Twinkle says, if I don't micromanage him, nothing gets done. It's so wearing. Take what happened this week - he actually promised me he would get it done, but didn't! As I said to him, where can I go from here? I tried a diary reminder, a verbal reminder, and so on. What's left? Why the hell does a grown man not do his 'life admin'??

I simply don't have the time, headspace or energy any more.

We are supposed to be going out for dinner with friends on Friday so I hope he gets out of his huff by then

I can sympathise as I recognise some of the traits in my DH. He is lazy (by his own admission) and a procrastinator. I end up doing most of the household stuff, planning childcare and emotional "labour" of family life, despite working more hours, but he will engage with me in discussions about it. Since we bought our own house 5 months ago he has really got stuck in with the DIY doing sizeable and tricky jobs that I would definitely have outsourced, so I feel that he is pulling his weight a bit more. I always have to say "do the washing up" or "put a load of washing on" as he would never think to do it, but occasionally he surprises me.

I would say that things definitely get harder when you have children as there are so many more things to do in the household (with toddler clinging to your leg), which is something to consider.

SSD - OK I'm not making excuses for him but 'a list of "his" chores' sounds like stuff you gave him to do.

How about you sit down with all the regular chores and ask him what he wants to do and what definite day and time he will do them. He choses the tasks, the day and the time. That way he will be in charge of what and when stuff happens - not being told to do it. Treat him like an adult and he might behave like one. He sounds like my teenage sons. I can tell them 100 times to do something and it won't happen. Leave them to face the consequences and it gets done - eventually.

You sound like you have a whirl of tasks in your head like a set of spinning plates and running round shouting and stressed they are going to fall off. You need to let go completely of what he has 'agreed to do'. If the plates fall it is up to him.

On the other hand some tasks are too intermittent and free form to allow to just 'fall off the calendar'. You need to do those.

Really, I CAN organise the food for a complex dinner party, order it, have it delivered and cook it all to arrive at the table in a 10 minute time window from two weeks away. DW does all the inviting and runs the social calendar and emailing back and forth to all the guests but really I cant get my head round all that social stuff at all. Meanwhile she just can't handle the fact that I will have a massive fridge full of fresh food 24 hours before hand and she gets stressed its too much or too little and wants to micromanage the shopping too - but its better if I take responsibility and she just has to trust me. If I mess up its my fault.

Can you honestly say to yourself that you can take your hands of the steering wheel and let your DH mess up something or are you always there to save him?

Exh was like this, never did anything, I gave up in the end because I was being labelled a nag which I couldn't stand. I just worked through lists of things on my own, mowing the lawn reprinting the porch washing the car everything. Neighbours (who noticed me doing stuff) my dad and his family used to massively take the piss out of him for leaving everything to me which just added to the general resentment between us. I refused to be his carer and eventually things broke down.
My advice would be to start regular counselling sessions - sounds dramatic but if you have one hour a week or month or whatever where you can openly discuss things in front of someone else (so he can't ignore/stonewall) I think you could stop that resentment building up. I think it would have saved us but I was too resigned to do anything proactive about it. Good luck

Oh my god, my DH is exactly the same. It's infuriating! He never thinks of things that need doing and I have to ask him a million times to do one measly job (and then I get called a nag!!)

For example, he is best man (and I am bridesmaid) for our friends who are getting married in June. I have been organising the hen party since last June and he has not done anything for the stag. I have now taken it upon myself to organise the stag too (I made it clear that I am not doing it for DH but for his friend so he has a nice time) and to top it all off in pregnant and don't need all the stress!

We've had many many conversations about him thinking ahead and taking more responsibility but it never goes in.

So sorry, I have no advice but I sympathise!

I have now taken it upon myself to organise the stag too
Huh? I just don't understand this at all.

I am always there to save him, Beta, yes absolutely. I'm seeing I have to really withdraw from being a safety net though to see if it effects any change.

However, if I'm honest, it's not so much the regular chores that are the problem, it's the things that pop up in daily life. So for example, this thing for his DPs requires: an appointment to be made, something to be cancelled, something to be booked, something to be rearranged. These things are clearly time sensitive and need doing. But he's not doing them and he's had about 4 weeks now. It's the everyday stuff that pops up, the kind of thing I would put on my to-do list and get done before bed. He just doesn't do it, and I keep on worrying about it needing to be done!

And the longer he's leaving it, the more things get added to his list; he now also needs to fill out and return a letter, and send a quick email to someone he knows about another matter.

And the more things he has to do, the less likely he is to do it!

The irony is, the other day I was feeling down about something and he was trying to buoy me up and support me. He said, "you get results [at work] because you are so organised, you take the time and put the effort in to get things done well and you're conscientious" or words to that effect. It was really nice.

And today he uses that against me? I'm now a 'control freak' because I am so organised??

My ex was like this, very organised and on top of things. I used to let him get on with it, because i didn't see the point of much of what he did. DH is much more as you describe, has been known to forget his appointments at the dentist and other things that i would never do, and would feel really bad about, if i forgot. Again, I leave him to it.

Unless you have children together, leaving a partner to get on with things themselves works pretty well. I would never commit him to doing anything without checking with him and then letting him make the commitment. Why would i, I'm not his boss, I'm his wife, so that's how I treat him.

What would honestly happen, if you didn't chase him about things? How about trying it for a while, and see how you get on. Remember to protect yourself, so that you don't depend on his getting anything done and take it from there. Would you consider giving it a go? If you find something you would normally chase him about, just..... don't. I would love to know how you get on.

Inspector - if I don't organise it it will not get done and I won't have his friend disappointed because my DH is a lazy arse who can't be bothered to do it. Sorry if that wasn't clear

The problem is the longer this goes on OP, the more pissed off he's going to get, the more frustrated you're going to be, the more incompetent he feels. In order to defend himself he will accuse you of being a 'control freak' and worse. Ultimately you will feel like one because you're nagging, nagging, nagging, every single fucking day.

In 15 years of marriage I have never had this problem with my husband. He's super-organised, efficient, gets things done, we share chores, childcare, we've never really had a major argument.

Your husband needs to be with someone who approaches life in the same slightly vague, haphazard way, and you need to be with someone who's more like you. You're a hare with a tortoise and you need another hare.

I am pretty laid back but really your partner is just opting out, it opts him out of a decent relationship too.

You have no kids, no ties - can you imagine how much more shit work there is with homeownership and children? Will he change, doubt it, really if you aren't loved up, delighted with each other and shagging all the time then I wouldn't bet on you having a future never mind one with lots more complications. Most futures seem to firing kids and ailing parents and job issues, house moves... You need a partner you value.

So what would happen if he didn't do these things? Make the doctors appt for example, the irks won't come to an end - he will be inconvenienced or people who rely on him will be (dp) . So what? You're enabling him to be lazy ( like the pp & stag do) . Fair dos when you have kids you need to work as a team but otherwise just do your own tasks seperately, seems like that's the only way that you're not going to become resentful about it.

With the cards if you wanted to send cards you should send cards. I don't think you can order him to send cards because it's important to you that they are sent.

Likewise with other things. You just have to let go or leave.

You're right, Inspector. I am drawing a line now. Not even going to mention anything that is his to do; let alone remind / nag / cajole / do it myself.

However, I have been doing some thinking and am also going to start opting out of things myself.

For example, my new answer to "What's for dinner?" will be, "I don't know, what do you think?". My response to, "Where is xxx thing?" will be, "I don't know, I haven't seen it", instead of me getting up to 'find' it exactly where it has always lived. And so on.

OP I've got one like yours. After years of feeling like I'm pulling him along behind me and doing all the thinking I have (only in the last few weeks as it happens) begun a kind of spring clean of the mind, and just stopped concerning myself with all the problems which I'd made be 'ours' (i.e. mine because he did feck all about them) but which are actually his and for which HE needs to find a solution or deal with the consequences. For example, now works from home and hasn't got enough minutes on his contract and wants me to leave my work phone at home so he can use that instead. No. Warning lights coming on in his car. I don't drive it, not my problem. Tax return due in any day now and he's not even started it. Not my problem. It's quite liberating. As is the thought that if he doesn't present me with the fab city break he promised me for being so supportive over the last year, within the timeframe he said he would do it, I shall take myself off somewhere exciting and leave him to his inertia. He's even started doing a bit of housework.

SSD - stop!

His DPs are not your concern. He isn't concerned so stop being concerned on his behalf.

That email to someone he knows. What's the worst thing that could happen if it doesn't get done? Will it cost a lot of money or will he just look stupid?

By all means tell him the deadline and put it on the calendar and give him a final reminder a few days before. There, you did your bit for him. However, if he doesn't do these things then I conclude he really isn't bothered and neither should you be. Only you are bothered here.

He's a lazy git who really doesn't give much of a shit, that's why.

You are not a control freak, you just like to get things done, and properly, nothing wrong with that.

I would hate this, you will be like a nag whilst he sits back and tells you to calm your tits - it wont change OP unless you really make him understand that you are not willing to continue carrying him, he's an adult fgs.

He doesn't do these things because he's apathetic, not passive.

Easy to say don't let it bother you but things that will have an impact on you will bother you!

If it's stuff that only affects him I'd leave him to it but anything that involves you then make it clear you will not be happy if he continues to let you down.

Don't accept being a nag or a control freak - you are having to step in, to ensure he does normal day to day stuff that most of us all manage to do, it's called getting on with life and doing what needs done!

I appreciate that you were being a bit tongue in cheek in your OP when you said that your way is "efficient and the best" but your dp will have most likely found that throughout his life, HIS way is efficient and the best. He may have found that other people do the tasks for him (and on a personal basis that's bloody efficient), he may have found that some tasks either change or end up not being required in the same way (my dsis spent months visiting nursing home for my parents, which in the end neither of them needed), and he has probably found that leaving things till the last minute give him a burst of adrenaline which he needs to get things done creatively.

Hi again, sorry, I just couldn't resist another suggestion, to help you relax about this. I'm glad that you are going to try the relaxed way, but honestly, don't stress even about that.

An answer to 'where is' that works well for me, is to say [Mmmmm] and to look vaguely around, not see anything and continue doing whatever you were doing. He may not even notice that you are not helping, because, probably, that's what he would do. Then you can practise the mmmmm without any movement or thought and soon, segway to not noticing his questions. It's brilliant, honesty. He will find it, or not find it. Your job is to keep out of the drama either way, not to draw attention to the fact that you are not helping. Certainly not to find whatever it is.

There are, as you have spotted, really no rewards for doing stuff, unless it is you who have lost . Nor want to be the person who can nd everything, do everything. They will just let you, don't be that person.

Likewise, an aswer to what is for dinner, might be hhhmmmm, I'm really hungry, what do you fancy making? Or, mmmmm, I'm not really hungry, thank you.