Ex had the kids for two weeks daughter ended up in hospital

[Newbrummie]

Self harmed on the Wednesday morning, burn on the face - no medical treatment sort.
Had a panic attack at midnight on Sunday morning I returned midday Sunday to be told she is in hospital.
She wants to live with him now, the best she can throw at me for how awful it is living with me is that I told her if she played up I would send her to live with her dad.
Background is he abandoned us in Australia for 18 months and now he's back ready to play super dad.
Do I let her go .... She's the middle child of 4 aged 11. Others don't want to go.
Social services and cahms are involved.

[Amoamasamat]

Agree with Wannabe. Sounds like your dd is hearing a lot of adult shit. I'd try not to say an outright no to your her about living with her dad (as that will make you the baddy) but explain that it's a possibility in the future if X, Y and Z happen and you can work towards it.

e.g.
Well. yes you could live with your dad but first he will need to organise a suitable and safe place to live near to a good school which has a place for you. He'll need to get a job which allows him to be home with you every night and not travel. He'll need to demonstrate through working with social services and CAMHs that he can get you to your medical appointments. Then we'll need to start building up your visits again to make sure you and he cope well together etc etc etc

Sounds like he hasn't got a hope of getting together.

[Newbrummie]

I didn't want to say but basically the self harming incident occurred the morning after he'd cried in front of them because his girlfriend died. I know that makes me sound a complete bitch but this is the woman he chose to stay with for 11 months and have no physical contact with his kids as a result.
My mind is in over drive but I do wonder if she harmed after feeling bad that this woman was gone

[wannabestressfree]

But that's HUGE at her age.... Imagine processing that? The guilt... How you feel, she feels, he feels and she is 11.
I really would move things onto the most amicable you can. 'Yes dad and I will talk about arrangements when he has found a house etc' then change the subject. In Light of what you have said she may be overwhelmed that her dad is alone. I think I would.... You have to be her buffer though.

[mummytime]

Please please listen to CAMHS and SS, take their advice and keep your children safe, even if its not what they want.
He is harming them.

Allow her to rant at you. Find somewhere/someone to off load on, but do not allow her to dictate what will happen. She is vulnerable, and part of helping her is to take decisions which she is not ready for away from her.
She is 11, and that is still very young. Gillick competency is something which comes with age, but it doesn't suddenly occur at a set age, it is based on emotional maturity - at 11 it would be very unlikely that she has that maturity yet. The idea came from being mature enough to decide on using contraception - I think most people would be concerned about an 11 year old needing to be mature enough to make that choice.

[tb]

To avoid rubbishing him - however much he deserves it - you could always say that because he was away he's not as much up to speed with things concerning dc as he would be if he'd been around, and he'll take a little while to get up to date.

[Newbrummie]

This is the thing I have never rubbished him, I've been factual and when they've been whinging about getting the bus and blaming me I've said when dad starts paying child support I can buy a car that sort of thing at the very worst in my bad days. Most of the time I just don't see the need to discuss the little idiot at all

[wannabestressfree]

See I wouldn't mention things like that.... Do they really need to know?

[Newbrummie]

Well yes they do when they are screaming in my face that I've ruined their lives yes, I think they do need to know who isn't pulling his weight here.
I accept at times I haven't handled things brilliantly either, everyone does their best in these situations

[wannabestressfree]

Look I am not having a pop I am just trying to help you in a situation you have to tread very carefully with particularly as it seems you have cahms and ss involvment and yet are choosing to ignore advice.
It's gone from 'whinging' to 'screaming' very different things and you need to handle them and her. They will be aware he has been largely absent and are pushing against their rock. I have been there. You can do this....

[goddessofsmallthings]

As I understand it, the dc had no contact with their df for 11months. What contact did they have with him immediately prior to their 2 week stay with him or did he simply rock up and collect them without having seen or spoken to them for this protected length of time?

If he hasn't got anywhere to have the dc overnight, did they stay with him at his df's for 2 weeks? Where were you during this time and what communiction did you have with them?

What evidence do you have that his girlfriend died?

[Newbrummie]

No evidence the girlfriend died.
They spent one day a week with him for 7 weeks leading up to the 2 week visit.
They stayed at his mothers for the first week and at my house the 2nd week and yes I face timed and emailed them throughout the first week, contact dwindled in the second week as they were back at school

[Newbrummie]

Cahms and SS may have given advice but then they were useless when I asked for her to be returned to my home so it's difficult they can advise all they like if they aren't going to support me then it's irrelevant isn't it

[goddessofsmallthings]

You've said that dd self-harmed by burning her face on Wednesday morning of week 2 which was presumably a school day. What did she use to burn herself?

Did she go to school on that day and did any of the teaching/support staff notice or remark on the burn?

What do you think his reaction will be when he receives your solicitor's letter stating that contact is temporarily suspended? If you fear that you'll have difficulty retrieving any of your dc if he's able to make off with them, talk to your solicitor about seeking a prohibited steps order.

[goddessofsmallthings]

I had a sinking feeling that you'd let him stay in your home for all or part of the 2 weeks the dc were in his care.

Where did you stay during this time? If you don't mind me asking, do you have a dp or bf and did you go away with or stay with him for a week?

[Newbrummie]

Yeah I went abroad with my boyfriend

[Newbrummie]

Kids have never met my boyfriend and never will now, it's all over because of this

[Newbrummie]

She burnt her face with curling tongs, I have a meeting with the school tomorrow I'll ask if anyone noticed. For all his twattery I cannot see him burning her I really can't and she says it was her

[wannabestressfree]

Listen onwards and upwards. Hindsight is a wonderful thing and you weren't to know what was to happen. I really think though that everything has to be on a more 'legal' footing now. This is too serious to ignore.
I guess he could argue that you going and leaving the country could exacerbate her sense of abandonment especially after the messing around with their dad but..... She is 11. She is probably horribly confused.
You need to batten down the hatches.
Keep everything light and wonderful.
Leave the ex to go down the legal route.
Keep cahms and ss involved for advice.
I would be seriously considering the order in light of recent events.

[anotherbusymum14]

Sorry. Just spotted my typo "kissing state of mind" was meant to be "missing him state of mind" - that she has probably had missed him a lot, so is a lot more upset about it all. I hope you are getting closer to finding some solutions.

[Newbrummie]

Spike to the school today and they agreed my strategy of not pandering to it is the correct course of action and he was completely wrong to indulge it for his own reasons. He's going to look a right tit basically if he keeps this going.
CAMHs are discharging her tomorrow and SS are coming out in Monday for a look around my immaculate living room

[wannabestressfree]

Where is she now brummie? I am confused as to why cahms are discharging her so quickly.....

[Newbrummie]

Shes at home with me. I guess they are discharging her because theres no actual issue

[Newbrummie]

I mean really, mum went on holiday for a fortnight isnt a reason to have counselling is it ? Pupil support are going to continue giving her coping strategies

[wannabestressfree]

No of course not but dad having long periods of non contact, working herself into a frenzy when she then self harms and wanting to live with her dad etc are though in my opinion.

[Newbrummie]

We'll see what they say tomorrow I guess