Ex had the kids for two weeks daughter ended up in hospital

[Newbrummie]

Self harmed on the Wednesday morning, burn on the face - no medical treatment sort.
Had a panic attack at midnight on Sunday morning I returned midday Sunday to be told she is in hospital.
She wants to live with him now, the best she can throw at me for how awful it is living with me is that I told her if she played up I would send her to live with her dad.
Background is he abandoned us in Australia for 18 months and now he's back ready to play super dad.
Do I let her go .... She's the middle child of 4 aged 11. Others don't want to go.
Social services and cahms are involved.

[goddessofsmallthings]

Are SS and CAHMS on the case because of dd's admission to hospital?

From what you've subsequently said, it sounds as if her df has done a very big number on 11yo dd. Have your older dc shed any light on what may have gone on to cause her to self-harm for the first time?

Is she the only dc that appears to have been adversely affected by staying with their df or have any of the others shown signs of upset or disquiet since they've been home with you?

[Newbrummie]

Yea that's right and yes that's my feelings too

[Newbrummie]

I couldn't begin to start with what he's done in the past but she is the only one who likes him and he's latched onto that

[Newbrummie]

Other kids are fine, no interest in leaving me

[wannabestressfree]

She may not have shown signs but your ex husband has and you have to protect them. Its not good Enough to say 'its what they Want' why so passive?

[Newbrummie]

That's fair enough I've just been bullied by him in the past

[Serioussteve]

You need to keep hold of her. It's troubling reading how her father was when you were married.

My DSS went to live with his absent father popped up out of nowhere, he soon came back.

You need to be strong, and if you need to be a twat then be one. Sounds like your daughter needs you more than ever and is emotionally in pieces. Don't forget, CAMHs and SS have seen this all before, they will certainly asks you DDs school for their input too.

[Newbrummie]

I just don't feel like they believe me to be honest, he's very convincing

[goddessofsmallthings]

I'm relieved to learn you have a solicitor and I agree with them that no contact is the way to go. As for 'the authorities' view, the dcs' df has joint PR and if he wishes to exercise it he can apply to the courts for a childcare arrrangements order which will first require him to attend mediation.

If he has no place to have the dc overnight other than a hotel, where did he take them for 2 weeks and were you away from your home during that time?

Would it be fair to say that since your return to the UK (presuming that you have returned from Oz) your dc settled well into their new schools and home environment without giving any cause for concern and that 11yo dd's 'meltdown' appears to have been occasioned during her stay with her df and may be attributed to him pulling her strings his inappropriate or inadequate parenting skills?

[goddessofsmallthings]

How is your ex fixed for money? Is he working? Does he/do you have family in the UK and do you have real life support from friends/family members who live close to you? Were you married and are you now divorced? Does he pay maintenance for all 4 dc?

[BlackeyedShepherdsbringsheep]

when was, in your words, the pantomime in hospital? what incident triggered the admission/trip to hospital. (sorry I may be being a bit thick with reading today)

[Viviennemary]

I'd let social services help in the decision making. She sounds in a very bad way indeed. Perhaps she'd be better with foster parents for a while.

[Newbrummie]

She is not going to foster care ...
Basically he's wound her up into a frenzy and this is the fall out.

[Iwanttokillthem]

I would be suspicious of the burn on her face and how it actually came about.

For someone who has never self harmed this is a very public injury and (In my experience - I understand this may not reflect the whole range of self harmers) usually the first injuries are small and in a well hidden part of the body.

I would definitely ask the older DC what happened during the visit.

[Newbrummie]

So ex works full time as a travelling sales person basically - I live in Birmingham, DD attends school in Brum and won't move, his patch is the south west, so bristol down.
He thinks he can work full time and have a demi au pair to help him.
Money wise he probably thinks his child support payments will drop by 1/3 but of course they don't it's 10% for the first child, 15% for the secound and 20% for the 3rd so by my understanding it would reduce by 5% as he still has to pay 15% for the 2 that stay with me.
All in all he's in cloud cuckoo land isn't he ?
Currently homeless and yet will need a month to save for a bond and find somewhere to live, that's how worried he is - it'll take a month !

[goddessofsmallthings]

Relax, brummie, there's no think about foster care as that is not going to be happening.

From what you've said, it seems obvious what's gone on here and the pantomime has been entirely occasioned by the demon popping up from the trap door after a considerable absence and wanting to be centre stage again.

It does sound as if your ex is away with the fairies and I urge you to be advised by your solicitor with regard to contact as whatever progress you are able to make with dd following this debacle could be rapidly undone by her df.

When you've been bullied by a dominant personality it can be frighteningly easy to slip back into a passive or downtrodden state wherein you believe that they'll always hold sway, but you've achieved so much in bringing your dc back from Oz and settling them in the UK and it's time for you to realise that you have the strength of mind to stand your ground and face the bully down.

It's not easy being a middle child and it's probable that the lure of being a 'spoilt only' has turned her head - and shame on him for behaving with so little consideration for the wellbeing of her and her siblings.

Give each of your dc a specific role in 'team brummie' and make sure your 11yo knows that she is especially valued for her position as centre forward in the middle of the wingers. What you don't want is for him to be able to influence her into scoring an own goal because I don't believe she'll have the emotional stability and security with him that she has with you and her siblings.

I find it particularly worrying that she may equate self-harming and panic attacks with gaining attention and you will need to tread carefully to avoid her using these devices to gain her own ends when it is patently not in her best interests to have her own way.

He is a nasty pernicious sod, isn't he? He may have set his 11yo dd on a most destructive path and I wonder what manner of man can be so insensitive and have so little regard for their dc?

If you have any opportunity to talk to him out of earshot of your dc, give him both barrels - and then blast him with automatic shots. The twat deserves no less and some would say he deserves considerably more.

[Newbrummie]

I did unfortunately call him a manipulatively cnut in front of the ward sister - she sniggered

[RandomMess]

I have to say that has made me snigger, how very apt!!!

I think all you can do is be very honest with CAMHS and SS with your concerns - presumably cafcass should be involved?

Perhaps it's a case of deflecting the decision onto the courts? "When Dad has done x, y & z you can go for weekends and then after a few months of that they would let you move"

I totally think he'd flake out before then especially when he realises he won't get a huge reduction in maintenance although if you work he could then claim off you for this DD?

[Newbrummie]

I don't work, which makes his piss boil.
This is the thing, he knows SS will be on my side the fact that he took her from the hospital to his dads house and she didn't get to bed until 11pm and was then woken up at 5.30am to bring her back to my house for school ie so he could go to work made SS livid.
And the fact that she was allowed to phone child line and work herself into a state at 10.30pm at night.
He has no clue

[RandomMess]

Well I think you can safely say that they will not let her live with him so it doesn't actually have to be your decision.

I wonder if he gets a kick over having a residency battle rather than actually wanting her???

I had a very good family solicitor say to me with regards this sort of thing - "Give them enough rope and they soon hang themselves"

[Newbrummie]

My solicitors written to him, daughter has gone batshit at the suggestion of no contact though.

[wannabestressfree]

With all due respect your daughter is 11. I wouldn't be telling her so much just underplaying everything. There is no need. Let the solicitors do their jobs.

[Newbrummie]

I agree entirely its him that keeps telling her she's over the age of 10 therefore she gets to make decisions. Gillock/Fraser competent - only the dr and social worker said not - and then she gets upset and he tells her they and I are wrong.

[RandomMess]

What an utter bastard, he's being abusive and giving himself enough rope to hang himself though...

[anotherbusymum14]

Sounds like she's vulnerable and at that stage where she is easily effected by any change around her and would obviously miss her dad lots and probably wants him around more, but she has no idea that this situation isn't ideal for her.
She needs the stability with you right now. My main concern too is because she is vulnerable he could be using that to get her on his side and she probably (in her kissing dad state of mind) feels sorry for him, bad even, and misses him and wants to be with him and probably make him feel better. So for her this is an answer to his problem. It's probably dads answer too, so he doesn't feel so alone. Not a great situation for her. Sorry. I hope you can find an answer to calm the situation.
Is there a way you can agree short visits (to keep her calm about it) on your terms, like somewhere neutral with other family members who could keep an eye on her. She loves him as her dad and feels torn so will be holding on real tight to him and probably feeling like you are to blame (but you are not).
If you can't find a safe solution for her to see him then it would have to be no contact for now, just thinking out loud, and slsi just supporting where you are already going with this.