Should adultery be re - criminalized?

[SlowFJH]

There's been a plethora of threads from OW in recent days. The general feeling on MN seems to be "cheating is always wrong". Yet most "civilised" countries have removed "Thou shalt not commit adultery" from their statute books many years ago. Was this a mistake?

Of course in those same countries it is still a legitimate grounds for divorce.

The law itself has no morality

Nonsense. Where does law come from? It doesn't just appear. It is made by humans, and as such is shaped by prevailing social attitudes, including the dominant mores.

I think you're arguing yourself into a corner.

Attitudes to morality or attitudes to law?

Both! Not either or. Your view is too black and white. Law doesn't exist neatly boxed off, insulated from human society and all its messiness. It is part of that society, interacts with and is shaped by that society.

Of course it does but that is not the same as saying 'if something is immoral it should be illegal'.

Law is not made based on collective morals, there's a specific process for making and administrating law which is designed to protect it from that arbitrariness.

The history of women's rights in Ireland would suggest otherwise. To name just one example.

Who creates and runs these safeguarding processes? Robots? No, human beings, themselves shaped by mores and moral outlooks.

Ireland has been slower to legislate for the rights of women.

I do not agree legislation concerning the rights of women has been about moral considerations. It has been about economic considerations and the power of religion over the legislature.

Maud - it just isn't true that law is based on morality. It is based on justice, preservation of individual rights and freedoms and the enforcement of collective responsibilities. The application of law sustains society. It has nothing to do with morality.

Lots of things are immoral but legal. Telling lies, breaking promises, selling sex, having affairs and blaspheming are all immoral, but are all legal. On the other hand, many religiously-derived morals are illegal. For example, an 'eye for an eye' is sanctioned in the Bible, but if you applied it literally, you would be in court alongside your assailant.

One of the problems with morality is that it is culturally relative. There is no agreement on absolutes in moral philosophy. Would murdering Hitler be wrong? What about abortion, is that wrong? Killing is wrong, but not if you are a soldier in war. There are plenty of moral questions for which there is no accepted moral answer.

The law has to address questions of fairness to ensure a smooth running society. It sometimes overlaps with morality, but don't be confused into thinking it is the basis of law.

And the way things are set up in England and Wales is based on collective decision making and precedent.

I didn't say that morality was the basis of law .

Maud - then what on earth did you mean when you said "nonsense'" to the proposition that the law has no morality????

Offred you Murder is "a criminal offence because not prohibiting/punishing murder causes difficulty for the rule of law and the functioning of society. Not because it is morally wrong."

Surely that should say "Murder is "a criminal offence because not prohibiting/punishing murder causes difficulty for the rule of law and the functioning of society. AND because it is morally wrong." Because murder is morally wrong. It is impossible, in lots and lots of cases to disentange the two surely

No it shouldn't. Morality is irrelevant. It might also be morally wrong as may some kinds of killing which are not unlawful.

The law deliberately considers culpability rather than morality.

But the reasons whythings were made illegal in the first place must have been based on the moral mores of the time. They may or may not change as those moral mores change eg murder will always be immoral and illegal. Homsexulaity is not longer considered immoral and the law followed that

I think you are arguing a very fine case anyway Offerd but I am off to get my Christmas decs down now

As far as I'm aware adultery has never been a crime in the UK. But maybe you should be able to sue a partner in a civil court if they commit adultery whilst married. That would certainly teach some of them a lesson.

Offred
You really are getting rather hot under the collar.

I concede you know more about the law than I do. You're clearly VERY PROUD of the knowledge you have amassed from studies so far. I hope you're getting good grades for your essays - especially those which are Just. One. Line. Long. With. Each. Word. Interspersed. With. A. Full. Stop.

You were 100% right already but expressing yourself in that manner clearly makes you more than right. Good for you.

I also fully accept that you believe you are 100%, absolutely correct re the moral absolute "Affairs are always wrong". It must be nice to be so sure.

"As far as I'm aware adultery has never been a crime in the UK"

See earlier in this thread, (around 11:40 on Saturday 2nd)

BitOutofPractice
Even things you imagine are moral absolutes (e.g. Thou shalt not kill ) are very situational - even in the Bible. Apparently this only applied to God's Chosen People not killing each other. Just a few pages on from the Ten Commandments God instructs the Jews
(via Moses) to butcher every man, woman and child of the Amalekite tribe.

So it would seem that not even God is as sure of his moral absolutes as Offred is.

She clearly needs to Send. Him. A. Missive. To. Put. Him. Straight.

Offred isn't one who seems hot under the collar or obtuse (to me, at least)

Personally, I found life to be a lot easier by not pressuring myself to know with absolute certainty what is 100 % right and what is 100% wrong. I just don't know and don't claim to.

Thankfully the law on adultery in the UK has decriminalised it. Some Western countries are only just recently getting round to decriminalization (Argentina only in 2005 - correct me if I'm wrong ).

Sorry Argentina decriminalised in 1995. It was Brazil in 2005. It was a "crime" in France until 1975 ...

In that case Offred you have won the argument bacsue the disconnect between moral mores and the law in France before 1975 couldn't be further apart could they?

'Shaped by' does not mean 'based on' Noneed. More black and white thinking.

I'm not trying to win any argument. I'm explaining my knowledge and opinions because I have been repeatedly asked to by the OP. The op has not returned the favour.

Slow - my moral standards are not open to policing by you. What concern is it of yours if I believe cheating is absolutely wrong? I am not telling you or anyone else that you must think the same. You keep asking me to explain myself.

Just saying law is morality in xyz piece of law or law must be based on morality is not an argument against my assertion that it is incorrect to conflate law and morality.

AFAIC there is no "argument" about the distinction between morality and law and I'm yet to see anyone make one that supports morality and law being the same thing apart from "they must be".

How would anyone prove adultery has taken place ?

Unless the people concerned admit

DNA if children involved ?

CCTV cameras in every room ?

In the news in some countries people are punished for lesser "crimes" in public