Well, I finally did the unthinkable

[janaus]

I texted the ex OW.

So much has been going through my head since my suspicions in July and August and admission in September.
I have issues. Trust, of course. I am certain he is not seeing anyone. We are doing well together. But I do feel he minimised the fling, mistake as he called it. 3 times only he said.
So in the text I asked if she would tell me the truth. At first she didn't want to talk to me. But I persisted, and said she didn't have to tell me anything. But that he had said it was 3 times. She said, who said it was 3 times. So I guess I have my answer. There was about 6 messages each. Very civil, polite. I am not blaming this woman. In the end we wished each other a Merry Christmas.
I know it wasn't the right thing to do. I will be getting Counselling after the New Year.

I hope everyone here has a good Christmas, and thanks for your support over this time.

Hahaha Jan! At least they're all things you'd enjoy. Merry Christmas!!!

How can you, in adjacent sentences, saying that you're trying / he's swept it under the carpet.

Stay with him if you want to / are too scared not to. But... stop coming out with this "we're trying" bullshit love. He's not.

You know he's still in touch with and probably fucking the Chinese girlfriend, right? Because if he'd actually called off all contact in September when you forced him to admit to it, then she wouldn't be texting him about your messages now.

And as for not buying you a present?
Fucking hell he knows you're too scared to leave, doesn't he?
He really doesn't give a flying fuck.

If he put his ALL into this "we're working on it" crap, it might not be enough. But he's actually not putting his ANYTHING into it.

I'm raging for you.

Jan, I read back on some of your posts and it seems you're the same age as me! We're also in the same situation. Well that is we were in the same situation until 3 years ago when I told my husband no more, just no bloody more! It almost killed me and there are times when I still have hard days but I tell myself you're going to get through this, in a couple of hours you're going to be feeling Ok - and I usually am.

So here's what I want you to think about. You've lived most of your life and if you're life's a bloody misery at this age then its always going to be bloody misery. You have to pluck up the courage to put changes in place that mean you live the rest of your life happily and at peace. You're at the stage where you're putting plans into place for your retirement and old age and for me that was about making new memories to keep me going when Im maybe not very well 25 years down the line and I have a lot of time on my hands to think.

Ive done so many different things this last couple of years and yes it was for my enjoyment but I also wanted to be able to talk to other people about a different subject after the same one dominating things for years. It was also very important to me that my children saw me happy. They had to be able to sit back years from now, (and maybe not so many years from now cos who the hells knows whats round the corner) and say - at least mama died happy. And as it happens just today one of my sons got me in the kitchen and said Ma, you have no idea how proud I am of you.

I'd never had a career or anything, all thought of that was put firmly away in order for my husband to have his, so when I separated from my husband it was a bloody big scary world out there. Not financially as that hasn't changed for me at all but to go out into the world and find my feet was bloody terrifying. But now there's no stopping me. Im not interested in anyone else, ever, Im happy alone, but there's a life out there that doesn't involve checking someones phone and Im not looking back! When I think of what these men turn us into!

I hate to think what this is doing to your children and this is what mine said to me - Ma, we will give you all the help in the world that you need to get a new life underway but we won't help you live this life any longer. Its killing all of us! Stay with him if you like and if you do - don't involve us in the heartache of it. But if you want out and you're scared just grab our hands and jump!

So I did!

Please think about the memories your current life is going to give you as you go into your middle age and beyond. And you know what else? All this bloody stress and heartbreak is a major health hazzard and at our age its one we don't bloody well need!!!!!

Im not someone who can stand and shout - thank god I left the bastard. We'd been together a whole lifetime and to be honest Im not sure a lifetime can be gotten over. I mean, how do you get over a lifetime? But I promise you this - there is a happy life, a good life, just waiting for you and if you can pluck up the courage please jump. You owe it to yourself.

xxx

That's lovely Sansoora!
And your kids sound a credit to you.

Sansoora, thank you so much.

Yes, married 39 years. Thought we were happy, comfortable, entering another stage of our life.
I am now looking back at the whole 39 years, thinking, was it all a lie.
I threatened to destroy him by telling the kids.
But of course, he finally admitted, and wanted to work things out.
So, our 3 adult kids, do not know anything. We have 6 gorgeous little grand kids who adore their Pop Pop.
Sadly, in July, one daughter, discovered her partner had a fling via on line dating a few years ago, in the early stages of their relationship. She and her little daughter came home to us for support.
She kept saying, dad is on partners side, he was encouraging her to go back and work it out.
Daughter asked her father to meet up with the partner and have the father 'talk' with him. Thinking back now, how awkward this must have been for him, being in the same position.
Well, daughter, finally decided, after about 2 months with us, to try again. It was early days, before serious commitment and before their daughter was born so she was able to give him another chance.
I have no other family, very few friends. His family, I adore 4 of his brothers/sisters, like a lot 3 of the others, and despise 1 brother, who left his wife, to live happily ever after with his ow.

Today, Xmas day, we decided to have Xmas lunch at the nursing home with my 90 year old dad. He took one mouthful and was sick.
I took him to his room,leaving DH sitting in the dining room, eating away.
I did not even get a bite of Xmas lunch. Turkey, the works, plum pudding.
An hour later DH finally came into my dads room, asked how he was. He was ok and dozing. Then said he was ready to go home. He had been sitting in the dining room on his own most of that time. So annoyed, he could have finished eating, then come and swapped to keep an eye on dad, while I ate lunch.
I made him wait till about 2, and left. So no Xmas lunch for me,
We had lovely evening later with the family.
Yes, I was disappointed, not to receive a pres. Even something, a token gift from a $2 shop
He is a very generous person, giving cash to our kids recently.
Now, I'm reading into that, he's getting on the good side with the kids.
Sorry, I'm rambling again, bit like a drama queen. I think its about 3 am here, no sleep again, my mind is going round and round.

So as has been commented before, he's really pulling out all the stops to make it up to you

You poor love

Jan, I saw your post and my immediate thought was - its the middle of the night where Jan is and I bet she's up because her head is feeling like a spin dryer.

I threatened to destroy him by telling the kids.

So, our 3 adult kids, do not know anything.

I think you should tell them but not necessarily to destroy him because it probably wont and you'll be left with that feeling to contend with as well. Anyone as upset and as unhappy as you are will not be able hiding it. It will have changed your personality and your mothering etc and your kids will be wondering what's going on with you. It wont be in a good way and there's no way on earth I'd be going around letting the kids think anything negatively of me when the reality is my heart is breaking. Let them think badly of you for being human just so they don't think badly of their dad? No bloody way.

But of course, he finally admitted, and wanted to work things out.

So he didn't want to work things out just because? Look, this is a man who was going to lie as long as he could. He was and is treating you like an idiot. Someone who didn't deserve to be in control of her own life. He walks all over you after his forced disclosure and he was going to do the same without disclosure. I think its been a theme for a very long time and he really did have it all mapped out eh?

We have 6 gorgeous little grand kids who adore their Pop Pop.

I have 5, soon to be 6 grandchildren, and they've taken it in their stride. They don't need to know the nitty gritty of it all. Separation can be explained in lots of ways. But please also consider this - that you are so scared of a different life to the one you have now that you are using the wee ones as an excuse to not change the one you have now. Yes, you're concerned about them but I would put money on you also feeling as sense of relief that you have them to consider as well.

Sadly, in July, one daughter, discovered her partner had a fling via on line dating a few years ago, in the early stages of their relationship. She and her little daughter came home to us for support. She kept saying, dad is on partners side, he was encouraging her to go back and work it out. Daughter asked her father to meet up with the partner and have the father 'talk' with him. Thinking back now, how awkward this must have been for him, being in the same position.

Why would it be awkward? Your family don't know what he did. And the talk would have been right up his street. He would have stood there being able to justify his actions to someone else without them knowing what he was doing. I bet he felt all warm and cosy after it and was in no way feeling awkward at all. Oh and your SIL will think he's a great guy because he probably did a wee bit of nod nod wink wink during the talk without actually dobbing himself in it so the job really is a good un - a warm and cosy feeling for him twice over.

I have no other family, very few friends. His family, I adore 4 of his brothers/sisters, like a lot 3 of the others, and despise 1 brother, who left his wife, to live happily ever after with his ow.

You'll make new friends and you'll more than likely find that his family are still on board with you and that its him who's in the dog house. And you know what? You dont even have to go out there and make bosom buddy friends. You can just get out there and make new acquaintances that make a difference to your life in small ways.

Today, Xmas day, we decided to have Xmas lunch at the nursing home with my 90 year old dad. He took one mouthful and was sick. I took him to his room,leaving DH sitting in the dining room, eating away.I did not even get a bite of Xmas lunch. Turkey, the works, plum pudding.An hour later DH finally came into my dads room, asked how he was. He was ok and dozing. Then said he was ready to go home. He had been sitting in the dining room on his own most of that time. So annoyed, he could have finished eating, then come and swapped to keep an eye on dad, while I ate lunch. I made him wait till about 2, and left. So no Xmas lunch for me

God he's a charmer eh? But you're also a martyr, and not in a good way :D. You don't need him to not think of a Christmas lunch for you to prove he's a pig to you - you know he is. Do you see how these men make us think and behave. They get us to the stage where we like being disregarded and hurt because it feels nice in a very warped way.

And please don't take this the wrong way because its for your own good - I bet your taking any chance you get to sock one to him and its what I meant by there is no way you are hiding whats going on. You wont sock it too him in a big way by giving yourself the life you deserve so you sock it too him any other way you can day in and day out.

We had lovely evening later with the family.

Cant you see how wrong it is that you and him could pull that off even after the nursing home incident alone? Not that I think you have. Im convinced your family know something is amiss and they've gone home feeling really cheated, and angry they've had to take part in a charade. But there is also this to think about - you have been married for a lifetime and you should not have needed the involvement of your children to make Christmas Day nice for you. Your day should have been nice from morning with the evening being the icing on the cake.

Yes, I was disappointed, not to receive a pres. Even something, a token gift from a $2 shop

We've already covered this and the answer will always be the same.

He is a very generous person, giving cash to our kids recently. Now, I'm reading into that, he's getting on the good side with the kids

People give to their children regardless but I would put money on him knowing they're suspicious, that he knows the truth will soon be out and this is his way of buttering them up. Are any of your kids the kind of adults to be buttered up in this way? Is the thought that some of them scaring you? It would be very normal if it is. And if they're not the kind to be buttered up like this then he's all the more despicable for trying it on with them anyway.

Im sorry you are going through this but please believe it could all be so very different for you.

That's lovely Sansoora!
And your kids sound a credit to you.

I wouldn't have blamed them if they'd said stuff this and walked away.

It was bloody grim. We were broken but they still had a bit of energy left. Maybe because they were young and fitter and stronger and what happened was the natural order of things - they saved all of us when I couldn't.

Can I also say to people wondering why Jan wont make a move that leaving a marriage after a lifetime is very hard. We were brought up in different times, we are in fact products of our generation the way we think about certain things. But, and this is very important also, we don't have any experience of 'life' other than with our husbands so we haven't really learned how relationships work, whats a good one, whats a bad one. All the things people learn nowadays when they've had the experience of a few relationships and they know whats acceptable and whats not.

We read of it here all the time - by the time I was ready to settle down I knew what I wanted out of a relationship. Women who were with their husbands as long as we were/are didn't have that.

Ok, this is my last post. Except to support other people in troubled times.

We are going to do this.

What happened, is I awoke early morning Boxing Day, to a very horrible dream. ' My daughter had killed Ow '
I woke, hysterically crying, and screaming. All my vented up rage, hatred and mistrust, came flooding out. I screamed out my anger, everything.
Hubby finally admitted he was so ashamed, embarrassed, and disgusted by what he had done. He's does not blame me for how I feel. When we both calmed down a little, we had the best talk ever in our 40 years together. We slept a couple more hours. Awoke feeling the best in so long.
We tried again today with my Dad, bringing him out of the nursing home for the afternoon, had a lovely afternoon with him, all went well. He was able to give the great grand children a book.
I now draw a line under the past and move on.
Today is the first day of the rest of our lives together.

Jeez Jan, I wish you'd had that dream a couple of days ago.

I could have watched the last episode of Downtown instead of replying to your last post but one.

Blimey

I know Sansora, I did read every word, and took it all in. I thank you for your care and understanding.
Yes, I am old school, way I was brought up.
I believe this marriage is worth saving.
I still don't know how men can compartmentalise their life.
But now both our feelings are out in the open.
He knows I don't 'forgive' what happened. And heaven forbid if it happened again, it will truly be the end.

Eh? All is alright because of some hysterical bonding?

Did OW actually tell you what happened between them or are you still in the dark?

What turned it around for me, was his shame, and disgust, hatred of himself. Him sweeping it under the carpet was the only way he could live with himself and the guilt he felt at betraying me.

You have just been totally played.

Where was his disgust and shame and hatred yesterday when he didn't even give you a fucking Xmas present? Because that is what he really thinks of you.

Let's pretend he did have to sweep it under the carpet, to cope.
Well... if you two were just having a 'normal Xmas', he'd never cheated... then he still thinks nothing of you because he couldn't even be bothered to get you a chocolate fucking orange.

You're too scared to leave, but you had so much rage last night that he's not quite 100% certain of that.

All I will say now, is when you post again in a few months, a few years... whenever... Finally brave enough to insist on being loved... People will be glad for you, not saying I told you so.

And I'm sorry, but I'm actually laughing at the idea that he could deal with the guilt.

Ask him today, why he didn't bother to buy you a Xmas present.

("because I felt so bad, nothing seemed enough... so nothing it was")

Anyway - for the sake of other women married to cheating lying arseholes, do post up all the things he does to win your trust and love back, what he does to work on your marriage. I'm sure he'll be a shining example.

Good luck, lovey.

Ty, Cabrinha. I know everyone has invested so much time into trying to help me. I do understand. I do appreciate it.
I know I have been to hell and back.

My decision is we can do this.
If it does not work, I will re read and re think every piece of advice I have been given.
I will always hate what happened.
But line is drawn. I am not the same person I was back then.

Jan, this is an ongoing process with many twists and turns and only time will tell what your outcome is going to be. So, please do not sell yourself short to your husband along the way. Please don't let todays hysterical bonding prevent you from demanding the life with him that you want because there's a very good chance that he'll now think he's off the hook after your talk and nice day out with your dad.

And you know what? Its ok months from now for you to say I thought this is what I wanted but its not. Sometimes we need that old familiar and safe feeling of 'we're ok' in order to be able to say - actually we're not.

Please look at your post above and see how it was about your husband, your dad, your grandchildren, your children, not having many friends etc. Please make sure that whatever you do next you start to prioritise you because it really is Ok to do that - regardless of what we may have been led to believe decades ago.

You're at a stage in life where you should be thinking about a new hobby or lifestyle for when you are retired and after what's happened its even more important that you take charge of your life and make it the one you want. You don't have to go about being reborn so to speak, and not just because it sounds bloody terrifying, but Im sure the last few months have made you sit and think about the person you are and the life you lead and it has made you think a few changes would be good.

Now is the time.

Have told him, it is not always going to be great. I do expect the rage and hurt I feel to rear its head. Things, memories, will likely trigger.

If it happens, he will have to deal with it, he caused it.
It is was it is, nothing will change our history. But we will move forward.

You can't decide that "we can do this", only what you will do and accept. It seems you have accepted what he did and how he's behaved since.

He hasn't exactly done much to make amends. He didn't even organise christmas presents for you. He doesn't actually need to do much to keep you with him.

He is still gaslighting you. You don't even have information on what actually happened.

"Men" don't compartmentalise: don't generalise and malign other men to try to minimise your H's actions. Your man has cheated and then done that.

So, our 3 adult kids, do not know anything.

They might know, they might suspect, they may have chosen to keep quiet. He is not the invisible man - and they will have read your distress over the past few months.....maybe they think either one of you has had a health scare?

Could you both sit with your children to tell them what has happened and that you both need their support and understanding during a trying period to rebuild? Would he agree to that?

This short book is brilliant....written by a marriage counsellor of 30 years she outlines the 17 steps that from her experience the cheater has to commit to for there to be any chance of the marriage surviving. Your DH needs to read this and do this. You need to read this and you will see what he needs to do. If he is resistant to any of it you will have your answer and can cut to the chase and not put yourself through anymore hell.

www.lindajmacdonald.com/how_to_help_11-06-10_final_pdf-.pdf

Why would you telling your adult DC "destroy" him? Surely that would be just part of the consequences of his actions.

V weird that you both had the gall to advise your DD who'd been cheated on, and that he had a "man to man" talk with son in law when he and your DD don't know what's gone on. If / when your DD finds out about her father's actions she might well be hurt and angry with you both for doing that.

V weird that you both had the gall to advise your DD who'd been cheated on, and that he had a "man to man" talk with son in law when he and your DD don't know what's gone on. If / when your DD finds out about her father's actions she might well be hurt and angry with you both for doing that.

This is one huge hornets nest on two accounts. One that its another example of minimising adultery, and secondly Jans daughter is going to feel doubly cheated when it all comes out - as it will. Its going to be a complete and utter head fuck for her. And the saying 'Oh, what a tangled web we weave...when first we practice to deceive' springs to mind here.

But I think the timeline is that OP's husband was cheating and hadn't been found out when he had the talk with his SIL. But the girl was canny enough to know her dad wasn't being impartial.

And I think Jan means her husband would be destroyed because their children would 'hate' him for what he did. But Im not altogether to sure about that and I think to assume so can just lead to massive disappointment for the betrayed. Children cant walk away from a parent and even though they may be massively hurt they, for the most part, still want and need the parent in their life - even if they don't understand it themselves.

Duck, at the time of finding out about son in laws, on line dating. I was not aware of husbands fling. I did not suggest he talk to son in law.
I was actually bewildered by husbands response to son in law. I wanted to kill the SIL, and assumed that DH would also too, tear him apart.
My daughter asked her dad to talk to the partner. Assuming that her dad would be in her corner, and rip into him.
I could not believe how complaicant about it he was. It was then my gut instinct kicked in. A quick look at his phone bill, I noticed face time, sending MMS, to a certain number. I did mention this to DD at the time. She said, mum, you are being paranoid, because of her situation. I became anxious and depressed, daughter believed it was because of son in law. But I was shattered about what I suspected, the more I looked into phone bills, the more I found. That's when I asked him if there was someone else. Of course, I know he lied and said of course not.
Yes, my threats to destroy my husband, was wanting to tell the family and his sisters and brothers what an arsehole he was.
Husband began very generous with money, giving them thousands of $$$$. I know the kids needed a helping hand, but I believe he gave it to them believing it would make them think what a great person he was.
I am aware he can be a lying cheating scumbag, an arsehole. I do not have blinkers on. I know it could happen again. I will not tolerate it again.
Part of me has cut myself off.
But I believe his remorse is genuine. He will get one chance and one chance only.
I know you all do not agree. But this is it. He must be honest and open with me. If at any time he decides it's not enough, that he is again not happy, he must walk way. If I ever feel like this again. I will know its time to call it quits. But I will know that we have given it our best shot.
I told him its not always going to be easy. But with open communication we can do it.

You have always been here for me, and I appreciate it. I never knew strangers would care so much.