Wow that hurt!

[HilarysMantelpiece]

Just offloading really.

I had a telephone call this evening from my DM looking for the address of STBX-PIL. STBXH and I separated several years ago (well...he left).

He was and is emotionally, financially and verbally abusive. Continues to be the golden child of his parents. Despite my bending over backwards to ensure that DC remain in touch with their father and his family, I am demonised to my face and behind my back. I've got around all that in my head- "blood is thicker than water", if they admit how bad he is, it will reflect on them etc.

So, my mother rang me to ask for the address of PIL who are not at their usual home this Christmas. She wanted to send them a Christmas card- it emerged that she has continued to exchange cards with them every year since the split.

It really, really hurts.

I've had arms-length emotional support from my family; "oooh, he is awful" type remarks. But sadly, no practical support with DC, left out of conversations, been screamed at because I "had a long face" when alone at Christmas, told that it was no surprise that he left as I am "difficult to live with".

I don't know what I want from posting- just to unload the hurt really. I've done so much work to detach from it all and it/they still have the power to betray and hurt me. :-(

sorry cross post.

it's worth considering maybe. It might not be accurate for your mother, but something is going on for her to be so unable to stand up for you - and indeed to ask her to give you the address of the parents of the man who's been so abusive. That was, to put it mildly, insensitive.

Hi ssd !English mantelpiece user here :)

I am another bullshit shouter here - point out when people are brushing unacceptable crap under the carpet.
Doesn't make me popular.
Also had lots of disloyalty which hurts, and hypocritical behaviour.
No matter how much I am used to it, I still get hurt.
My DM is incapable of saying the word sorry.
I now just don't worry about upsetting her anymore because she can be so hurtful to me and never addresses it.
I am mostly OK with it but do genuinely get bewildered as I can't understand how she can behave in such ways and think it's ok.
It's her loss because I have pulled away from her a lot and she is a widow now but it is her doing, not mine.
I do still love her dearly though and luckily can enjoy her company when she is being nice but the older she gets, the more difficult it seems.
When you are a loyal person, disloyalty hurts.
If loyalty is not in your skill set for whatever reason, it must not be a big deal I suppose but I can't get my head round that so I have stopped trying.

Afternoon, just had the urge to join in on this: it really is a shock from any family member- in my case it was my brother.
I was married & divorced, turns out he was giving her info when I was confiding in him at the lowest points just before decision to split (I did work it out reasonably quickly with certain details she suddenly started coming up with!) so stepped back from him. Built up element of trust over a few years, including comments from my sil tht she had known it would never work anyway.
Then a good 7-8 years after the split my brother called asking for my address: when I started to tell him, he stopped me and corrected me : no, he meant my old address - ie the ex-wife's address. Normally he'd let his wife send the Christmas card but he was being helpful and couldn't recall that address.

I'll admit that I laughed at him, told him the address and did point out that it may be a touch insensitive to ask me for my ex wife's details etc. And my sil did call later and was fairly apologetic: not about keeping in touch with the ex but that he'd called me and hadn't waited to ask her!

Sorry if that's rambling, but I just wanted to offer my support - it's called being blindsided for a reason!

hi candycane!

are you feeling a teeny bit better tonight op, getting it out and meeting like minded souls?

hope so xx

Just logged back in.
Thank you all- you've piled in with support and you get it.
If I had that conversation with any of my family, it wouldn't have ended well.
There's lots of collusion, scapegoating etc etc blah blah.

The best strategy is to keep them at arm's length.

So yeah, much better thank you. No, no chance of getting out, but that's just the way it is for now.

I SOOOO get this op. I left my physically and mentally abusive H 25 years ago with 3 DC and what I could fit into a car. I genuinely feared for my life and endured another two years of intimidation before he met someone else to hit and left me alone, and all these years later when we have to be in the same vicinity, eg DCs weddings, HE ignores me and looks at me like I'm something he's trodden in. My DM still exchanges Christmas cards and he rings her a couple of times a year for a chat.
I have three daughters and if any man so much as laid a finger on them I would be hard pushed not to kill him, let alone say 'ooh guess who rang me the other day'
Totally warped.

I think you've done extremely well to get away from an abusive XH when you've got complete arseholes for parents who don't treat you with respect.

You should be very proud that you're not modelling the same behaviour for your DC. And definitely have a cry - it can really help. Put on a soppy film of you need an excuse, I find that always helps a lot. Take care of yourself OP

Mine are further away than arms length. Siblings, anyway (phew); parents aged, like yours, so I do see them [inspects watch]

Scapegoats aren't real in an abusive family. They (we) are a devise, a 2D construct. So when anything awful happens to us they don't register it bcs 1. we are the dog and deserve it, and 2. we aren't real.

As painful as it is to accept it, IMHO this is how it is. Forget love lurking deep down. Ouch.

I must take issue with this -

I haven't gone NC. Lots of reasons...DC would have no extended family at all if I did.

bcs I made this mistake for these reasons. It was a terrible, fundamental mistake that has ended extremely badly. I really urge you not to expose your children to your family's disordered, dysfunctional, toxic influence towards you, their mother. It really is better for your children to have safe, ordered, functioning, loving 'us 4' than the poisonous, toxic gas brood. I can't stress this enough.

So, basically, I have the same ouch t-shirt, Hilary - endless gut-wrenching betrayals, large and small. Endless. Identical to this, many times. They do it like breathing. I've had the convos to get them to understand - as if it isn't obvious! - and come away bloodied and desperate that they can't (won't) recognise the simplest of concepts . They are like repelled magnets when it comes to loving and supporting me, the scapegoat. They simply don't see I am human and worthy of love, respect, validation, support, loyalty.

They're sick, basically.

And yy to the stain Imo we never fully get rid of it. I know that sounds defeatist but imo it is realistic.

BUT we've had acres of therapy, know the ropes; and we use the slights to climb on being poetic now

It's the lack of self worth their lack of interest in you causes that does most damage I think. I wouldn't have gotten into abusive relationships if I grew up feeling valued and worthy of protection and care, I'm sure of that. I will not continue that legacy. Everyone on this thread has been so insightful and strong to say NO MORE, NOT MY CHILDREN. We ate more than our families. We are functioning. And we have each other

My Mother was the same. If someone had hurt me, she loved them for it.

Think on Hilary, when you have been raised by someone who glories in your pain, or who betrays you, raises you to expect to be less than everyone around you, why would you not marry the same kind of arsehole?

You married what you were raised by.

Consider cutting them off, they are no use to you or your children. Trust me.

Make 2016 the year your arms get longer... Phase them out. By next year you'll be free of em, and at your pace.

Thank you all again. What stars.

So, I was thinking about what onceameer said about selfishness....

I think what has been going on is this...'D'M has been writing to them (and is terribly nice and interested in PIL's life events when they meet) so that they (PIL) will see that DM is lovely and such a nice person.

Therefore, I am no reflection on her. (ouch)

Hilary is obviously difficult and Hilary's marriage (whisper) broke down and obviously he was under such strain. But Hilary was always like that, a bit tricky.

In this way, DM can distance herself from the shame of me as a daughter, with my failure. Because of course, DM is lovely and not at all like me. Such a pity Hilary turned out like this.
DM has to convince all onlookers that she herself is lovely and doesn't deserve this worry.

I'm still not convinced it's selfish....more that DM is deeply, deeply insecure.

I see my sisters do this with their daughters....they sit having coffee together (I don't engage any longer).
They will talk about their daughters (never sons) in low tones.... "I'm having such difficulty with her". DNeices are being normal girls struggling with their place in the world, trying to figure out hormones and bodies and boys and cliques.

That's not normal, is it?

I don't know. I have issues with DDs at times, but outside of home, all anyone ever hears is how wonderful they are, how strong-thoughtful-competent they are. How I am proud of them.
I never heard that . I have only ever heard negative as to my personal qualities, positive when I've attained to an external measure (exam results mostly).

Never mind. I'm not going to wallow- it is what it is and my choices now are to sit and feel sorry for myself or keep driving on.

Hilary, you're doing what I do, turning the problem inside out looking for a reason why you have been treated like that. I do it continuously, look for a reason, I read stuff online, I look at books, poetry, anything that might give me the answer to why was I treated so indifferently by someone I would have done anything for?

I've kept my distance for a few years now and I think dh is right in saying there is no answer, the person I'm keeping away from is just a selfish, self centred bastard with no empathy or care for me, simple as that. I'm slowly seeing it as their problem and not mine, as a reflection on them, not on me.

I've often though I wish I was a harder person and not so sensitive and I could switch my hurt off, but then I wouldn't be the person I am and I would be more like the person that hurts me and I don't want that.

Wow ssd. Just that. Wow.

I do that- you can see above. I've spend aeons trying to work it out...probably thinking that if I can see where the problem is, then I can change what is 'wrong' with me and fix it, me, them.

But I can't. As it is 'their problem, not mine'.

Wow.
Selfish and self-centred with no empathy or care for me.
That really hurts.
But really helps.

Isn't MN great sometimes ?

Hilary, you are wonderful, strong, thoughtful and competent.

AF yes it is.

Suburban Am I? Not feeling it at the moment. Should have been able to work out ssd's insights for myself. Feel a bit silly, sad and incompetent.

From your posts you certainly seem to be

Hilary you are ace. You are a thinker. You are caring. You feel things. Like me.
I don't care what other people think.
I don't care what their reasons are for their behaviour.
I only care about what my reaction is, what I think about their behaviour.
I care about whether I will accept it or not accept it.
My DM told me all through my childhood that I was a nuisance.
Throughout my teenage years I had a chip on my shoulder apparently.
And as an adult I am difficult.
I know she slags me off to all her friends.
The thing is, I get in with her friends and have good relationships with them.
So I trust they can see the bigger picture that actually I'm alright and just get arsey if people aren't being nice or fair.
I wasn't a nuisance, I didn't have a chip on my shoulder and I'm not difficult.
My mum was impatient that's all. I was a clever girl who talked a lot and she couldn't handle it.
I've always stood up for injustice and my mum prefers a quiet life with no arguments (passive aggressive!).
Now she is the flaming awkward one and I mostly let it go over my head. I cry when it hurts and then pick myself up because I want to get on with my life.
My daughter absolutely knows that she is loved and I am proud and she will never be a nuisance.
Hilary, your mum is flawed. You are doing a great job of dealing with it.

hilary's Feel a bit silly, sad and incompetent.

You aren't. This is subtle stuff that you often can't see unless you're outside the situation. She's your mother, who's been there since you were tiny and she's rather manipulative, maybe because that's the only way she knows how to be.

You're in the forest and can't see the trees. Sometimes outsiders who've made it through similar forests can see what's going on better, because they can look back and you're in the middle of it.

Please be kind to yourself.

Hilary many wise words before mine, and I apologise if I repeat anything already said in advance ....
My DM has shades of this. The thing about being seen to be nice is it reassures the person pretending being nice that they are, in fact nice, even if they're not

It is impossible to challenge any of DM's behaviour, unlike with someone who is an emotionally balanced human, because this just results in hysterics, designed to make the challenger feel bad, and not challenge again. Gets DM her own way, because the fall-out is so spectacular otherwise. Everyone else in the family refuses to accept this is the situation, so yes I have become the family scapegoat/black sheep. Sounds a bit similar to your situation, so sympathies in spades.

I agree with Hissy and Springy to reconsider exposure of your dc to these dysfunctional people. It is of course important for your dc to learn how to make (and keep) connections with people and be socialized. But staying in the box of snakes for that is, well, desperate. And you know that poision will be dripped in your dc's ears against you. Please set a boundary to avoid that. There are tons of other avenues to connect with people through volunteering, scouts/sports/clubs, etc. Imho, your family of origin is disqualified to be of use to you. I know that hurts.

Your mom has a veneer of nice that is her life's work to maintain. But underneath... What a bitch.

The childhood training is a valid thing to look at and consider. Your marriage wasn't so much a failure as a mistake brought on by a distorted foundation of relationship training/brainwashing you endured in your youth. With that, it was doomed from the start. (I had a similar dynamic, except it was my career instead of marriage that "failed".)
It is a lot of complex and subtle dynamics...many would be dismissive about it. But I think dismissiveness is a mistake and it is important to know why, and how, and to decide whether or not it can continue to be tolerated.

It is ok to not tolerate anymore. You get to a certain point or age and just don't put up with shit anymore.

Your dc are a blessing. I hope you have a Very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

I bloody hate this crap.
My head is spinning and I feel guilty even posting about this. a) it's 'disloyal' and b) I'm wasting your time.
Bloody conditioning....

I actually cried earlier....I'm not important to anyone. I've never been important to my parents, or siblings. I've never had a 'best' friend. 'D'H has gone. If I do my job properly with DC they will feel secure and someone else will be important to them. Never me. I've never come first to anyone.

Please take this the right way ssd - but your insight has floored me.