Wow that hurt!

[HilarysMantelpiece]

Just offloading really.

I had a telephone call this evening from my DM looking for the address of STBX-PIL. STBXH and I separated several years ago (well...he left).

He was and is emotionally, financially and verbally abusive. Continues to be the golden child of his parents. Despite my bending over backwards to ensure that DC remain in touch with their father and his family, I am demonised to my face and behind my back. I've got around all that in my head- "blood is thicker than water", if they admit how bad he is, it will reflect on them etc.

So, my mother rang me to ask for the address of PIL who are not at their usual home this Christmas. She wanted to send them a Christmas card- it emerged that she has continued to exchange cards with them every year since the split.

It really, really hurts.

I've had arms-length emotional support from my family; "oooh, he is awful" type remarks. But sadly, no practical support with DC, left out of conversations, been screamed at because I "had a long face" when alone at Christmas, told that it was no surprise that he left as I am "difficult to live with".

I don't know what I want from posting- just to unload the hurt really. I've done so much work to detach from it all and it/they still have the power to betray and hurt me. :-(

Tell your mother you are hurt and why.

When I divorced my first H I had a police alarm in my house for a year, such was the danger I was in. You can imagine how astonished I was when my parents told me they often chatted to my Ex over the garden gate, because they weren't the sort of parents who "took sides". They also gave him some cash in hand jobs, wouldn't have wanted him to stint on booze or drugs presumably. He never paid a penny for our children.

I was so astonished I never really found my anger. They had trained it out of me, I think. I admire you for yours OP. Some people are appalling, ignorant parents. That's it really.

I've got my own analogy for the blood is thicker than water crap, I've heard it quite a few times over the past 3 years

"yes, blood is thicker than water, but it makes more mess when its spilled on the carpet and its impossible to get out"

the hurt I feel over something that has happened in my family is buried way deep in me and I know I'll never get it out..I admire and respect your ability to try to rise above what happened to you op, I'm desperate to stop my thing festering in me, but its just too deep to shift.

I'd love to have you as a friend too. You sound everything I like in a person.

AF, best quote I've read on here

Just because our parents have always disappointed us, doesn't mean it won't hurt when they do it again

I substitute parents for siblings but its just the same.

Hilary... are we long lost sisters?

It's always so shocking when you read about parents similar to yours, not because I felt I was the only one, more that I hoped I was. Your mother is not nice at all. Nice people don't call people to ask for the contact details of people who have been involved in harming their children!

You do indeed sound lovely. Not difficult at all.

Op your nickname is amazing

Don't blame you for being hurt and betrayed. This is the kind of cunty move my mum would pull. I'm NC with her now, and you know what, not having to be disappointed every time she lets me down is such a relief.

How much contact do you have with her? Can you reduce it a bit?

What a bunch of tossers...

My ex is tossers and has told the dc Im a losser to their faces for years now. I have stayed neutral but now thus year when PIL turned up on my doorstep to deliver card for dgc I have asked for her to meet dgc else where ( both dgc are adult age)
I wish I hadn't been so accommodating over the years as it just lead to them taking the piss

op, can I ask, what the joke with your nickname? I'm a bit slow on these things

and many phone calls from siblings as to why I upset her

It's all about her, hm? And she'd be rallying the troops to her side?

Under that 'nice' exterior is someone who is desperately weak and really rather manipulative, isn't there. Probably very insecure. But putting 'nice' first over the well being of her own daughter is a very poor show.

Hilary mantle is the author
Mantle piece is a fire surround

thanks ivy!

am none the wiser though

do you use mantelpiece in England, I always thought this was a Scottish word!

looopo I'm not interested in the drama that would follow from asking her not to send one. Either she gets it or she doesn't. I'm not going to get into the questions about why she shouldn't, or teaching her about how to be assertive. Which would subsequently be twisted into a version of "Hilary is so bitter- she wouldn't let me send a card". She actually said that I needed to talk to someone and "get it off my chest" as if STBX's abuse is a one-off thing that can be got over.
I haven't and won't shout; it undermines my own position.

Wisey KOKO...I see my journey as like scaling a shaley mountain- sometimes the ground slips under my feet but I keep aiming for the peaks.
LOVE the Thomas Cromwell books...and Hilary's accessible intelligence.

Joysmum I could tell her...but she can't won't hear it.

Roz I read on here the murder statistics for women- such a large number murdered by (ex) partners.
The "not taking sides" is a weak person's way of appearing reasonable when they are afraid of standing up to wrong doing.
Some people are appalling, ignorant parents. That's it really True that.

ssd
yes, blood is thicker than water, but it makes more mess when its spilled on the carpet and its impossible to get out I like that

Thanks for all the kind words about friendships...I know I am a wise (by experience) person now....but I still struggle with thinking that there is something inherently wrong with me. That's not an invitation to a pity party- I can feel it and simultaneously know it to be the result of family conditioning.

playswell you've echoed what I thought about as I got DC out to school this morning. I would not tolerate that for my DC- I can firmly and calmly stand up for them. Why would you prioritise the social nicety of Christmas cards over your 'D'Ds feelings?

DM actually is 'nice' and I have learned a lot of my tolerance from her. I also learned to tolerate absolutely unacceptable behaviour which is why I married STBX. She hasn't found the balance of nice/firm.

pocket thank you. I'm quite proud of the play on words!!!
I haven't gone NC. Lots of reasons...DC would have no extended family at all if I did. It would just be us 4. Which is fine, but they need socialising .

Also, my DM and DF are elderly. I do low, low contact...and TBH when I visit, I'm often there in body but spend lots of time reading/writing/being busy.
And I arrive with my boundaries up and ready.
This one got under the radar because she rang me and because it references something going on for several years Still hurts after last night.

ivy PIL are tossers. I choose to believe that my parents aren't deliberately, but stupidly, hurtful. I've intellectualised a lot of it (transgenerational transmission of trauma etc etc) but it damaged me as a child. No doubt.

Onceameer yesssss- it is all about her. Family events when I was a child meant that she suffered significant loss. Family has always been about protecting her ever since. Teenage behaviour stifled with "why would you try to upset her?" I have compassion fatigue for her- I used it all up years ago.

Under that 'nice' exterior is someone who is desperately weak - you've got it.
I'm not weak- although I wasn't allowed to be strong IYKWIM. Strength is threatening. It asks 'why aren't you strong too?".

I get the strength bit. I'm an aggressive person according to lots of my family because I tend to shout bullshit loudly when they start their crap. My wonderful childhood for example. I pointed out it would seem great when viewed through a vodka fuelled haze. Not much fun for me clearing up your puke and blood and chucking out your pissed sometimes pervy mates. Apparently it's rude and hurtful to say such things....thankfully my mum is much better now and turned her life around. Even sees my dd and does school runs. It's taken years to get to this. I'm rambling. Sorry

Yes ... strength is a horrid reminder of what they are not; and also a subtle reprimand for the times they have not been able to do the right thing.

It is incredibly hard if you're that fearful to do the right thing. But sometimes you have to, or you let down the people who are your responsibility.

I can understand the fear but the whole 'need to appear to be nice' thing is a real selfish mask. She probably couldn't cope with your anger at all could she. it's a lot pleasanter for her to feel you think she's a 'nice' mother, than to actually face the reality and have some backbone.

I suspect that -as adults here and now- you have a far shallower relationship than either of you would like. Though maybe she sticks her head in the sand about that, too.

I would never let my dd feel any of the pain I felt as a child. I would do more than die to protect her. I'd kill. I think all good loving parents would go to that extreme if they had to to protect their babies. And I'm a big soft sod.

Nota yy to how assertiveness gets mis-labelled as aggressive.
Clearly you did not have a wonderful childhood; but there is enormous potential for a better relationship if people/parents could admit they did wrong and want to put it right. You ramble away.

Onceameer do you think the 'need to appear to be nice" is selfish- I've thought it as being fearful? Being 'nice' demands and often gets, protection. After all, why would anyone be angry with a 'nice' person?
I might need to think about what you've said don't know if I can cope with selfishness

Yy, we have a very shallow relationship. Not for want of trying on my part. But you can only knock hammer on a closed door so often, before you get the message to go away.

Your DM should be on your side and putting you first.
Dm has also sided with my ex's family. It hurts.
What is there left? First grieving the lovely mum that I never had. Easier said than done. I have just posted on the Stately home thread about DM just now.
Be on your own side. And if you keep your arms and heart open friends WILL happen. Christmas and hug.

hilarys I think when it reaches your mother's level, yes, it is selfish. It's also from fear, agreed!

To me, it comes down to her being afraid of being rejected, of not being thought 'nice' - eg if she's sometimes being angry. Angry isn't a 'nice' emotion. It's hard to like someone who is angry with you - but sometimes anger is necessary. She should have been angry with those bullies and your ex Were there more incidents when she should have done something, and didn't becuase she was afraid of conflict? I bet there were.

Sometimes you need anger to give you the energy and strength to fight for your children or yourself.

But if you are angry you risk rejection. It's not a comfortable emotion. You want to be liked, so you never let anger/jealousy/difficult-to-handle feelings show. You have a need to be liked and you don't want people rejecting you. Thing is, that is about you. YOUR need for acceptance ... and you throw your children's need for a defender under the train. Yes, in my book that has tipped from a normal, okay desire for acceptance into something that is not okay because it's at the expense of other people - your children. It's moved into selfishness becuase other people are being let down by you allowing your extreme need for acceptance to dominate.

Unfortunately, anger and other uneasy emotions don't usually go away when buried. They transform into other much more subtle forms and get taken out on the nearest and dearest usually. If you questioned her actions even tactfully and she goes running to the other siblings about how mean you've been to her and so they are annoyed with you - that's pretty manipulative. She isn't stupid is she, she'll know that they will probably not be happy with you. Is it possible that if you 'upset' her, she'd quietly be punishing you?

Also sometimes in older generations, the female wasn't allowed to be angry/upset/put herself legitimately first. She had to be 'nice' all the time. Self sacrificing. Again, those difficult emotions don't vanish.

"Under every doormat is a simmering cauldron of fury"

I may be extrapolating far too far here and maybe none of this is ringing bells. Maybe something else is going on. Definitely she is also very fearful. Even so, there is something odd about the makeup of a woman who is so desperate to be liked by everyone that she's cosy up to the man who treated her daughter badly and even his parents.

"Under every doormat is a simmering cauldron of fury"....that is really interesting. Hmmm.

I'm finding your POV challenging onceameer....food for thought.

she forgets that the acceptance of people who are unpleasant doesn't matter.

Her blind need means she doesn't have much perspective or prioritization of what really matters. An abusive man and his parents shouldn't matter to her. Her daughter's hurt should - especially when that hurt is inflicted by her own actions. Those actions maybe come from her own desperate (and desperately uncomfortable, probably) insecurity.