I'm struggling with DH's hobbies.

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I will start this by saying dh is usually wonderful, he does lots round the house and is a fantastic father. I'm not working currently due to MH issues and he works full time.

He does a martial art two nights a week, and has an extra practice session with his brother on a third night. He is also in a band and at this time of year has a gig once a week. So that's four nights every week that he's either out of the house or unavailable.

Ds2 is four and will not settle in bed for me, but will settle happily for dh. I know it's not ideal but it's how it is for now. So for four nights a week he is either up until dh is home or asleep on me, meaning I can't easily get up without disturbing him.

I feel like I want to ask dh to be out fewer nights. But I don't know if I'm just being pathetic. I'm exhausted today as Ds doesn't have preschool on a Monday so it's been a full on day. I'm currently lying in bed with him in the vain hope he'll give in and go to sleep, dh is downstairs practising. I could cry.

I don't know if I'm just being pathetic about this and it's my problem.

I suppose I'm just wondering how many nights is normal to devote to hobbies outside the family?

I feel like because he's so good and involved the rest of the time I should just suck it up. Especially when I have free time to myself for three whole days every week. Should I just man up?

Thank you!

Ok, so tonight we've decided he the bath and pjs bit and he is running around like a loon. If I put him to bed now I know it will be an hours slog at least. I'm going to offer him the choice of my bed or his bed and maybe have a chance at settling him, but most likely he'll want me to stay with him until he's asleep.

If I just leave him to it he'll come downstairs and doing rapid returning always fails because I fold before he does. Dh is much better at the long slog and that's usually how he manages it. The trouble is the lack of consistency because dh is out so often.

I'll welcome any tips, thank you.

*done the

Not decided he.

I think routine and lack of choices would probably help.
Daddy being there should have little to no impact on routine.

My DDs routine, she's only 2.6 tho. :)

Tea done by 6, cbeebies Bedtime hour from 6-7pm then YouTube for some music or peppa whilst teeth are cleaned, hair brushed, PJs put on etc. Then its bed at 7.30pm, stories till no later than 8pm, then lights off and door shut.

This is the same whether I do it or her Mum does it.

There's also no choice where she sleeps, its in her bed, in her room, if she gets up and leaves her room, she's put back straight away.

The only time we relinquish this routine is if she loves awake for more than 3/4an hour, we'll bring her back down for 30 minutes but she's not allowed off her Armchair.

I really feel for you OP. I used to hate it when my DP worked away as it used to take nearly two hours of sitting in DDs room before she would fall asleep. We realised that she was probably staying awake and messing for so long as she probably thought in her own little way that she had to entertain us.

We decided we had to crack it when my DP was going on a stag doo for 4 days as I was starting to resent his time away not having to do bedtime. After 3 nights of us putting her in the cot and leaving straight away, she was settling herself off and going to sleep on her own.

I know my DD was much younger than your DS is now but I know how hard it is. You really need to decide on a plan with your DH and stick to it. Even if it means your DH having a week off from his hobbies to provide the consistency that your DS needs. Your DH might not like it, but in the long run, all your lives will be easier and happier for it.

I also agree with Seeyou, routine is key. Kids need sleep cues so they know what is going to happen and when it's going to happen. No deviation from the routine regardless who does it.

Another thought, we stopped giving DD a bath at bedtime as she loves them and they always get her excited and worked up, the complete opposite of our intentions. Could this also be the issue with your DS?

Yes, consistency and calmness are the keys. I know it won't be easy at first, but you must try to remain calm, speak softly and calmly. It'll be hard slog for a bit but eventually you'll get it. It's just a matter of remembering that 'this too shall pass' and he'll get the routine down.

My DSs routine was pretty much the same asSeeyou's, except we did supper at 5, bath & teeth at 6.00ish, then 1/2 hr of TV whilst snuggling together in the 'big chair'. Then to bed between 7-7.30 for story and a song. Then our 'goodnight rhyme' and lights out & door closed. DS1 was always a bedtime trooper, no problem. DS2 had a bit of a period of getting out of bed and peeking around the door, but we just quietly took him back and repeated the rhyme and left.

My DSs are now 32 and 26. They go to bed just fine by themselves now

What does he normally do after bath/ pyjamas?? Book, YouTube etc? Ideally you want a transition activity that involves him lying down with dimmed lights to start making him feel sleepy. Is there anything he would adore to read/ watch with you?

Do you want him to go to sleep in your bed or his bed? You may as well start with the same end goal in mind rather than switching.

Sounds like a visual timer would work. Something he could keep beside him. Maybe put him to bed with say Xmins of time on timer (visual timer so he understands it). I might split it into 3. Set eg 30 mins when you will lie with him, then go downstairs, then eg 30 mins of timer where he can get up if he 'needs' something (which you will attend to with no negative comments) then once that ends he enters third phase where he is expected to earn his reward by staying in bed full stop. He needs to be lying down (to encourage sleep to overtake him!) Emphasise that the special bit of the evening is when the timer finishes as that is the 'reward time'.

At first your bedtimes are not shorter at all or less onerous unfortunately, but you can fairly quickly shorten the timings as soon as you have compliancy with the routine. You really don't want it to be hard for him to do at first - what you expect of him should initially be very, very easy, in fact almost impossible not to achieve! In the morning he gets his reward the instant he wakes up.

The absolute key to success is for you or him to find the reward that will motivate him. I can't emphasise that enough. Get that right and he will honestly be happy to work for it. Get it wrong and the venture will be doomed.

Build up the new routine before you start it. Get a special timer app for 'reward time' (or whatever you want to call it). See if there's a nightlight or anything he wants to be comfortable when it's reward time.

Whenever there's a change made in behaviour you get what's called an 'extinction burst' which is just a behavioural way of saying things often get initially worse before they get better. So you'd expect him to be up and down the stairs a lot in his allotted time etc.

IMHO you really need to be doing it with your husband each night in the beginning. You want to be setting yourself up for success too! While you are at a low ebb you really don't want to be putting it all on yourself.

If you do it or something similar, I am certain within a fortnight you could have the timer on a scant few minutes for every stage. Which in my view would be a doable bedtime routine.

In medium-term once that is established, you can then set new targets so you don't have to lie down with him at all etc. But let's not get ahead of ourselves. At the mo just concentrate on duration and getting rid of the hortibly drawn out evenings.

Apologies that it's such a long post!

It's much appreciated, thank you! And all of you.

He's currently next to me on the iPad. I tried taking him up to bed in the dark and staying in the room but caved after 45 mins of him monkeying around as I was going to fall asleep. I'll ask dh to take a week off his hobbies next week and we'll crack it then, he's out the next three nights and can't cancel.

While I was typing dd (11) came down and offered to settle him upstairs. If she can do it when I can't I'll be torn between thinking its a win or a fail...

Oh God that's actually a win-win!

OP I think you need to get off the iPad/iphone. If you're laying next to him, the light could be keeping him awake. Have you tried audio stories? You can download them from the library

If he is on it then get him off IPads and electronics OP.
Theyre infamous for causing issues with 'switching off' even in adults.
Books and TV at most for at least 2 hours before bed.

Love, it all has to do with your little one knowing that you'll cave. Nothing to do with ought else, so don't think for a moment that it's a 'fail'.

Also avoid telly after tea. All screens are too stimulating

OP, you really have to step up here and be the mum. Why is your 4 yr old on an iPad at 8:30 in the evening. Put him to bed, if he gets up, put him back, repeat until he gets the message. Do not even hint at the idea that you are going to give in. This is not the job of an 11 yr old. It is not on that she is stepping up where you feel unable, you need to do this as a parent. Your DH stopping his hobbies is not going to help. He is already capable of putting his child to bed, it's you who needs to put in the hard work (and it will be a slog for about a week) and parent your child. As a matter of interest, how many other dcs do you have of what age ?

Op, you need to step up and be a mum. Settle your own dc. Don't cave in! Be strong.

No screens after say 6. Get a good routine in place, and stick to it.

Your 11yo dd shouldn't be offering to do parenting for you!!

He just needs the boundaries and knowing that no means no. My DS (4) will always play up more at bedtime for me than he will for DP, simply because I am more likely to give in to his demands, like staying in his bed for an extra cuddle, bring him drink etc. But when daddy does bedtime he knows it's for sleep!
Be repetitive and have bedtimes at a set time/routine. If he gets out of bed keep putting him back there. It shouldn't be different if your DH is home or not the bedtime routine should be the same. Kids pick up any weaknesses very quickly and play on them.

Um, any chance you cave so easily to DS getting up/sleeping with you so easily when DH is out, because it's nice to have someone want to be with you? I.e. you miss DH so when your son clamours to be with you you give in?

What about a temporary spell of him being in 5/6 nights a week at least? Combined with you always putting DS to bed (so he unlearns the behaviour). Until DS is firmly established in going to bed when you do it. DH is there to be moral support for you (i.e. it's easier for you not to cave when a) another adult reminds you why you need to do it b) you have someone else to snuggle up to once DS is in bed).

Plus, TBH, if it was me, I would struggle being with someone out that much long term, just on the basis of actually having time to have a proper relationship with them.

I'm usually the one on sleep threads posting 'if they want you they need the closeness, go with it, forget the rod-for-your-back brigade'. But I take a different view here. He's 4 - he'll be in school in 8 or 9 months and need his full night's sleep, this can't go on, and while four nights out a week is a bit excessive perhaps, your dh can't become a hostage to this - what if he has to go away for work, or go into hospital? (I'd say the same if the roles were reversed - you both need to be capable of getting him to bed in a reasonable timeframe). A 4yo really shouldn't be on the ipad at that time in the evening, and an 11yo should not be feeling she needs to offer to step in - sorry, but that is a shocking state of affairs. I have a big age gap too and if in 4 years ds1 and 2, at 14 and 12, felt they needed to take on responsibility for settling 4yo dd I'd be horrified.

You need to separate the hobbies from the sleep issue. I think, looking at the former in isolation, I might be asking him to drop the extra practice session, which still means he gets 3 evenings out a week - and I'd find at least one thing I do outside the home every week. I think when one partner spends more than 50% of evenings out on a regular basis it does go over the line a bit, both in terms of the 'family' time it prevents and in terms of the limitations is places on the other partner. But OTOH dh and I have always had our separate hobbies and friends etc and they have always been important to us and good for our relationship.

The bedtime thing - no electronics after a certain time, clear explanation to ds beforehand (he's old enough to understand) what is going to happen from now on, he stays in his room. Read/sing to him, or whatever it is you do, as normal. Take something to read and sit in there with him for the first half-hour (or time you feel acceptable). Then go, and keep putting him back in his room thereafter if it takes you all night. I don't usually advocate these sorts of 'tough' lines, but I think here it needs to happen.

Can you watch how your DH does it? Then copy when he's in?

I know that reading to your child when they go to bed is the acceptable thing to do, but I'm not sure why. Mine went to bed and that was it, they didn't associate me entertaining them with going to sleep. They were allowed to have their light on for a while and look at books or play with a toy, then go to sleep in their own time. It worked well.

Maybe ask DH to keep a sort of sleep diary with you so each knows what the other parent's doing. He's probably not doing very much differently.

Sounds like your DS gets a second wind early evening and I know from my own DCs sometimes when they were really tired somehow they went up a gear. You are flagging by then and it's exhausting. If you are suffering with depression multiply that by 10. Yanbu hoping for extra support. Do BIL and DH meet every week for an evening bout, is that set in stone? Must it be an evening?

(Your 11yo sounds a sweetheart btw).

I hope your son doesn't have a sleep in the afternoon?
You don't give sweets or cakes or drinks with colouring.
Cut out the bath if it gets him excited.
You talk to him about going to school, about how big boys go to bed when they go to school, encourage him, & show him all the good things about going to school.
You need to offer him a reward, maybe a trip to Circus, Legoland, anything that may get his interest. Then say if he goes to bed & stays in his bed (after you sitting on his bed, reading to him with him in his bed, let him choose what book, it is part of the routine) for 7 sleeps he will get the reward. He gets to put a sticker on a chart with the sleeps he achieves.
Be firm, if he gets up, tell him about the reward, point at the chart. put him back to bed.
It works

He doesn't sleep during the day at all.

I'm going to drop the bath, and see if it helps. We did do a sticker chart with rewards before but it only worked for a week, I'll start it up again.

I have to strongly agree with other posters - absolutely no iPad or other screens after dinner. They are a stimulant and really adversely affect a child's mood. I see it in my son.

I would try a book CD at bedtime. Turn out the light and allow it to play while he lays in bed at night. Sticker charts never worked for my kids. We use a special treat like ice cream out or sweets.