"But we took you to Stately Homes!" Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[OnceAMeerNotAlwaysAMeer]

It's November '15, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
Oct 14 – Dec 14
Dec 14 – March 15
March - Nov 2015

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

More helpful links:

Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Homecoming
Will I ever be good enough?
If you had controlling parents
When you and your mother can't be friends
Children of the self-absorbed
Recovery of your inner child

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

You have done nothing.
Maybe it was a resemblance, something linked with your birth, or she had PND after having you that triggered it....who knows...bottom line she is an adult and should have realised that she should have put these feelings aside. She had a choice and chose to be abusive towards you and she can't see that. She denies it.
She is toxic for you and every time you go back to her she hurts you again and again. The loving mother that you deserve does not exist in this woman for you.

@mum2mum99

Thank you.

I crave a loving mum. That's it. Old as I am, it never leaves you. I want hugs and loves.

Not this, that has been going on for years.

No wonder I am in tears. A loving hug from my mum, no....never got that. ever.

Dubby your desires and wishes are real and valid.
You may have to grieve for this huggy super mum, sadly.
In the meantime, you can still decide to let the one that you have got hurt you more or let go of her and go NC.
And you can get some mumsnetters' hugs ((((hugs)))).
My emotionally absent mum has left a void which I have tried to fill in many wrong ways, but it is still here. I just know it is.

@mum2mum99

Thank you. I hope you are ok too.

Do we ever get over it?

dubby you did nothing. nothing at all. it was simply bad luck that your mum needed someone to hate. Someone to pour all her own problems onto and blame, so that she didn't have to look squarely at herself in the mirror and say 'it's my problem'

I crave a loving mum. That's it. Old as I am, it never leaves you. I want hugs and loves

I know ... most of us here know ... we are there with you. It doesn't help much but you are not alone. We can stand with you.

Do we ever get over it? I think some people do. Painful wounds can be faced and people do heal. It leaves scars, but it doesn't hurt so much. For myself, I'd reached a peace with my own situation for a long time but that peace is kind of fractured atm. Hopefully I can regain it.

Morning! I've been on here before under a different NN about a year ago but long and short is that I really don't fit in with the family and need to go at least LC if not NC. The problem is that we live so close - and that I keep going back unable to accept that they won't change.

I'm going to RTHT and see if there's anyone in a similar position and see how I can go about making the shift from doormat to taking charge of my, and DS's life.

Dubdub you can move past it, but IMO there is something you miss that never gets replaced. In that respect it's like any bereavement, but it's much bigger because it happened throughout your childhood when you needed love more than at any time in your life. But you can still move forward and your life can be much happier than it is now. If you can stop looking for love from your mum she loses the power to hurt you, and it frees you up to find love in places where you will get it, from people who really love you.

So, I had my session with my therapist today and she was really good. I told her my concerns about her perception of my mum and she totally got it and was like "to be honest there aren't enough words for me to describe how angry I am at her on your behalf, and I'm amazed that you tried to negotiate all this round her for so long rather than just cutting contact" and I was like hallelujah. So it's fine. I shared the last of the big revelations of abuse with her, it's all off my chest, and next week we're going to talk about how to improve things going forward. I feel TONS better now.

That's really great toomuch, really pleased for you! When therapy is really good it can help so so so much.
I think I'm on the cusp of moving deeper into NC, I'd quite like another session with my therpaist to talk it all through. Can't afford it right this minute.

Seems like the way to go NC is just to do it....

Had (a very short) row with DSis who's currently living with DM last night via FB messenger and she's now blocked me. DM and I were getting on well until DSis moved back in. DM has a very low paid job and has about 160 a week, paying 120 of that in rent. DSis does not give her anything. It's been 9 months now and I've been really feeling the stress of having DM burdening me with her stress about this. Told DSis and she sent a message back saying that she and DM were having a good laugh at my message and then blocked me. DSis is 23 and DM says that she keeps saying she feels suicidal when she asks her for money. She came back paying nothing on the pretense that she would save up to go travelling. I feel like they've both been leading me a merry dance and I've really had enough of it.

Thanks good! I was on the cusp of doing what I normally do in these situations - ghost in basically, email to cancel the session and then just disappear. It's my sort of beginner-level equivalent of having proper boundaries. But actually sticking with it got me what I wanted and thins were actually much better than I perceive.

Good, are you think in of making the NC more permanent then, or formalising it?

We are NC but she sent presents for the kids for xmas. She doesn't have my new address (doesn't know we've moved) but the postman knows me so brought them round. I decided to use the move as a way to get out of the contact over xmas presents by ignoring and pretending I never got them. But she's e mailed asking if they've arrived. I don't want to admit I've moved or she'll want address and then the present nonsense goes on, I don't really want to write back at all as she'll just turn it into a bunfight. She's only sending the presents so she can do the "I wasn't allowed to see them but I always sent presents" thing. I've been over and over and I think the only way forward is not to respond, pretend I haven't seen the e mail either. She's not trying to amke amends, just force me into acknowledging presents twice a year.

Dubby I'm sorry you're feeling so bereft. I think it's a natural human need for us to need to feel loved by a mother-figure. The worst thing is when you have someone who is a mother-figure, but is not loving. The truth of this creates immense stress: "She is my mother, therefore she must love me. She acts as if she hates me, though, so I must be hateful. If I was good, she would love me."

Something you can do to move towards healing those wounds is to re-parent yourself. There is a good article about it here. I can also thoroughly recommend the book Homecoming by John Bradshaw.

Captain It sounds like you, your mum and your sister are all participating in the Drama Triangle. Right now, you are seeing your mum as the victim, your sister as the persecuter, and yourself as the rescuer. However your sister, with her text, has attempted to recast things with you as the victim, and both her and your mum as persecutors (laughing at you.)

Your mum probably originally saw your sister as the victim, and herself as the rescuer.

is a really good article about the drama triangle here [[http://www.lynneforrest.com/articles/2008/06/the-faces-of-victim/]].

What does this mean for you? It means you need to step off the triangle. Your mum and your sister are both adults. You do not need to rescue either of them. If your mum needs your sister to move out, then she must tell your sister to move out. I cannot express deeply enough how dysfunctional it is for your mum to ring you and say your sister - purely through a situation of your mum's own making - is bringing her to suicidal feelings!

Sorry that link for Drama Triangle didn't work, please try this:
www.lynneforrest.com/articles/2008/06/the-faces-of-victim/

toomuchtooold so happy to hear that you managed to move forward with your therapist. That's fantastic! Now you have got yourself and ally, or an extra one as you know all of us here are with you too.

Dubby I am still working out issues with my mum and I have just come out of a very dark place. I have good days and bad days.

PocketSaviour - Thank you, that does make a lot of sense with how we are. Gives me a lot to think about but also keeping in mind that it's not up to me to change them and indeed, I am unable to change them.

Pocket the links are great. I particularly like the article on re-parenting ourselves and allowing ourselves what we have missed in our childhood.

Big thanks for all the support and virtual hugs you gave me last night. Tears all round. Mad isn't it?

Good, (and sad at the same time), to know I am not alone in this journey.

I slept well for the first time in years last night having admitted (anonymously obv) what was killing me for years.

I had counselling when my youngest sister died last year, she was my real ally and I miss her so much. But anyway, that was grief counselling, and no mention of my mother. I think it was too much to bring that up with my loss of J. my darling sister. Still haven't got over that, and prob never will. My two other siblings are great don't get me wrong, but J was special.

Had a lot of things to deal with the last few years, but won't bore you with all that.

I visit mum twice a week, as do all siblings.

We have this "thing" of taking her out every Sunday for the afternoon and have tea or something. So that is one Sunday in three for me.

I have now decided to cut contact except for the Sunday gig. My DH is great with her, and although he knows she is toxic, can take it or leave it. He does validate me as a good person though which is great. We don't have children another sad story, but onwards and upwards.

I will surely be posting here again, maybe in a few minutes, who knows!

But I cannot thank this community enough. It has really validated my feelings.

I have much more to say.

There's plenty of time to say everything you need to say x

We each have different experiences but enough in common to understand one another

Dubby that's massive what you are going through. It seems you have turned a corner.

Thanks folks.

I don't know if I have turned a corner, but it's an experiment to see how less contact goes.

My siblings are all for it. They know, but get on with their lives as expected. At least they know and acknowledge it.

It will be interesting to see what happens when my Sunday comes around again, which is a week from Sunday next, and I would have had four visits done by then. Nothing yet about me not having done Tue. and tonight from my Mum. We shall see.

I am much calmer now. But that may change from day to day. I have no answers. But I need to live my life for me. Hard isn't it?

I read the thread all night last night and the FOG, really is me. Must challenge that soon.

Thanks again.

Oh dubby, so much of what you wrote in your original posts resonates.

I'm fortunate in "only" encountering years of emotional abuse from my mother. I'm 38, and it was only after reading threads in relationships and finding this thread that I had the lightbulb moment that my mothers behaviour from when I was a child was abusive. I struggle to label her narcissistic but the deepest depths of my heart tell me she is.

Like you, my sibling is the golden egg and I'm " the ugly duckling". Years of blatant favouritism from a young age towards him. My mother was early 30s when she had me so her age and immaturity nothing to do with it. I love my father intensely yet he has never, at least in front of me, intervened. Passively enabling her to continue.

She's stripped away at my emotional layers and I feel so bereft, emotionally dulled, extremely vulnerable and a horrible place to be.

Sorry, I seem to waffle on this thread, no idea if what I wrote means anything! You aren't alone, there are people here who understand and empathise. It's helped me a great deal so far, and never, ever, think you are a sorry case, because you're absolutely not. You didn't ask or deserve any of this.

On another note, first counselling session in the morning. Bricking it, been an introspective, intrinsic emotionally embedded musically involved day. I feel....strange....

And from my musical introspection...

"You hold the answers deep within your own mind.
Consciously, you've forgotten it.
That's the way the human mind works.
Whenever something is too unpleasant, to shameful for us
to entertain, we reject it.
We erase it from our memories.
But the imprint is always there."

From Evanescence - Understanding. Their Origin album has lyrics that I find relevant, appropriate and describe my emotions well. Sorry for OT!

@serioussteve.

I hope you will be alright. There is a world of "us" out there that many do not understand. We are silent in our torment.

Like you my Dad was my rock. He loved all of his children with a passion. But he sadly died very young, and then my mother was left with us. Alone but financially well looked after.

She obviously grieved badly for him as did we the children. This was 15 years ago. I don't know anymore. We were all adults when he passed but still the children if you can understand the dynamic going on.

But may whatever God you believe in or not forgive me. The wrong parent died. I have said it now.

I feel so bad for saying that. But that is how I feel. Dad was great, he had a difficult death and my mother visited him just once. Oh dear. She was unwell too, but still. She had lots of help and support even though she was ill.

I think I am going mad.