"But we took you to Stately Homes!" Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[OnceAMeerNotAlwaysAMeer]

It's November '15, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
Oct 14 – Dec 14
Dec 14 – March 15
March - Nov 2015

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

More helpful links:

Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Homecoming
Will I ever be good enough?
If you had controlling parents
When you and your mother can't be friends
Children of the self-absorbed
Recovery of your inner child

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Good morning ladies, how is everyone here? How did you all manage over the holiday period?

It will be a tough process Steve, but it's so worth it.

I forget if you had already met and "interviewed" this counsellor?

Just a telephone assessment, pocket, first face to face on Fri!

I actually found I felt great after each session, really buzzing and good about myself. There was only one or maybe two where it was a bit more heavy duty and I felt a bit more emotional afterwards. But on the whole I found my therapy to be like a brilliant, uplifting, empowering thing. I could quite see why people get addicited to therpay, it was like having a virtual hairstroke and like being parented again. He was great, my therapist :)

Good whereas I am getting really fed up of my therapist explaining to me where my mum's behaviour comes from and trying to put it in context. Jesus. I feel like I am having to make efforts to convince my one that my mum was really abusive and that there was intent there, which is very similar to the situation I had as a kid, where people saw my mother as upright and moral and OK, perhaps a little odd and inflexible, perhaps a little overprotective of a late and cherished baby, but definitely a good sort.

You were right about choosing the right therapist, I'm going to contact your guy.

...which is not to say that she can't help, but I am just fed up of it being such hard work to be believed.
(Which is to say, Steve, ignore my whingeing!)

toomuchtooold I am having to make efforts to convince my one that my mum was really abusive*
You really should not have to. A therapist, particularly if you choose a Rogerian approach should try to put himself in the client's shoes.
You can also breach with your therapist how you feel and how you perceive his interactions. It might make things move forward.
I know, also my mum is quite subtle in her manipulation, that my therapist recognised early on that she played an important part in my depression.

I really cannot recommend my therapist enough, he has been such a positive influence on my life. My mother was never physically abusive, but emotionally she really fucked me up, but he never made me feel that it was anything other than unacceptable treatment. He referred to it from the start as dysfunction. He would probably agree that it was a result of her own childhood and that in many ways she had tried to be a good parent, but that didn't mean she had been a good parent. I wasn't made to feel guilty or to "understand" her behaviour iyswim. I felt my therapy was for ME, he said that a few times, that he wouldn't bullshit me but that the whole point was to help ME, (not excuse her iyswim).

Goodtobetter I know what you mean, I think. I saw a therapist who had counselled my dad several years ago. This alone should not happen. She excused his behaviour and I felt sh* to even think that he wasn't there for me. In the end abusive parents who had a crap childhood or even murderers have a choice. Some people that have a crap childhood do not go on abusing people. In the end I felt that she really failed me. I felt so guilty for looking at my dad's behaviour .

Actually good, I think after reading what you're saying I may be being a bit unfair. She does acknowledge that there was abuse and felt that my lack of guilt at no contact was a sign of good health. I don't know. I was kind of hoping I might find someone who could go "ah yes, that sounds like NPD. Do you find that you have issues with the following odd things? Yea, that's common in children of NPD sufferers" sort of thing. Instead its like I have to explain everything and most of the time I'm already there with any insight she can give me. I feel as if I'm going to be saying "look I have x issue, and its related to my early childhood in the following way, and it needs fixed" and she'll be like "sounds about right" and then we will work on things bit by bit. No big world changing insights for me, they already came aged 20 when I realised my mum's story abiut my upbringing being ideal was mince (I was reading the Stone Diaries at the time, if anyone's interested) and then again in my late 20s when I read Dorothy Rowe and got angry for the first time, and then recently when I read about NPD. Thing is, and I think this is definitely related to the a use - I can often have the intellectual insight to solve a problem but part of me just doubts it's true, and golds me back from doing it. That's the whole problem that I went to therapy for - that my understanding of the abuse is all intellectual and sort of provisional and in my own head and I need someone to help me make it a gut feeling, which I just can't imagine is going to happen by talking for an hour a week with this nice lady who nods along noncommittally. Oh well. My usual action at this point would be to chuck it in and if for no other reason than I know I need to change sometio, I will carry on for now. I'm glad that my DH has seen my mother in action to a certain extent and doesn't like her at all - very few people ever spent enough times with her to see her for what she is other than us and my dad, who died a few years ago. I have seriously considered trying to get in touchnwith some of my mum's ex friends (her friendships never last very long) or even my first boyfriend and/or his mother as both of them witnessed it at times too. Just some sort of acknowledgment from the outside world that it isn't all in my head...

toomuchtooold it isn't your fault. And your therapist should be the first one to acknowledge that and validate your feelings. If you feel it then it IS valid.

mum that sounds like an absolutely shitty situation with your counsellor and I'm surprised if it's not considered ethically quite dodgy. And I totally agree on abusive parents having control over their behavior at some level. They get something out of it that they're not willing to give up for the chance of decent relationships with the people around them.

toomuch It doesn't sound like you are getting what you need out of the sessions. It could simply be that this therapist's approach isn't right for you. It actually sounds like you might benefit more from someone who would do some inner child work with you, so that you could have a safe space to FEEL that pain and anger as a child and take on that knowledge that it WAS monstrously unfair and that it shouldn't have happened.

mum that old counsellor of yours was horrific behaviour. Unfortunately there are a number of people drawn to becoming a counsellor who are thoroughly unsuited to it because they love drama, like hurting people, love declaiming their opinion, and enjoy being in a "caring profession". See also: nurses, teachers, social workers. :(

Well, you need to find someone who is a good fit. I found my guy very knowledgable about NPD, he was the one who said he felt that she probably at the very least had NPD traits. He was good with the inner child sort of thing, getting me to think about feelings and try to tie them back to a time in childhood and then using calming techniques. I found him really good for picking up on nuances and maybe posing a question about something which made me think about it in a whole new light, but it felt a bit like MY revelation iyswim? He is very perceptive and clearly very on the ball when dealing with children/partners of narcs.
I went to a woman before i saw him and she was very nice and I'm sure she was an excellent therapist but she just didn't quite GET the dynamic, the toxicity of my mother and our relationship, whereas he did. In fact I think sometimes I was more inclined to make excuses for her and he'd be the one posing a little question which would make me think, shit....that was really awful of her! Hope I'm explaining myself.
You need to find someone who really GETS you and the issue, whoever that is. Once you find them then therapy is amazing.

hello. Can I join in?

First post but I am with you.

I am in floods, Be back in a minute. Thanks.

I never cease to find it relevant and somewhat telling that every new poster asks if it's ok to post. Is this the only thread where this happens? I can't say I've seen it anywhere else.

DubbY take a deep breath, whenever you're ready, we're here ((hug))

Welcome Dubby, take your time, we're listening. Hissy love, come and talk sense to me on OTBT when you have a minute. xxxx

Hi sorry about the last post. Things got to me.

I have a narcissistic mother (I now know from reading here) And a sadly deceased Dad who was so loving and caring to me and my siblings, but at the same time had to placate my mother.

My mother is a very difficult person.

I have two siblings and they are the golden children in mum's eyes.

I do everything wrong.

My siblings know this and try to tell Mum, but she won't listen. I am the target.

thankfully our family, apart from mum's treatment of me is great. We do get on.

I have been physically and emotionally abused by my mother for years. I am devastated. But can only express it now.

I would just like to know why I am the target for this.

Thanks.

I am not in a good place right now. Feel so abandoned

Sorry this is very painful.

DubbyDubDub, we don't have any choice if we became the scapegoat. Some parents need to assign that rôle to one of their children. Totally unfair, and scarring for life

@Marchate. Thank you.

I am just at rock bottom now. I have read this thread all night and realise I am the scapegoat. But I don't want to be that victim either.

I suppose I am very fortunate that my siblings know what is going on, but they just get with their own lives too and take my issues with a grain of salt. Easy, because they are not the recipients. They just don't see it.

They will never know the effect my mother's actions have had on me.

I am genuinely in such pain. No one knows the reality.

If we're on this thread, we probably understand fully

I am in my 50s and only recently released that my parents were emotionally abusive. I always thought it was 50/50 my fault. Now I realise they were the adults, I was the child. They had the power

I am in so much pain for years.

Reading this thread has helped. But i am a sorry case.

Thank you for the replies.

Dubby, no matter how much you hurt, you are not a sorry case. Being on the thread is a first step in the right direction.
Not so long ago I realised I was 'broken', dysfunctioning and I thought useless. But no. I CAN mend myself. It is a journey.
Have you read any books? Done any therapy about your childhood?

I am mid fifties.

And to think that my mother can have such a hold on me at this stage of my life is so ridiculous. But she does.

The hate that comes from her eyes is unreal. What have I done?

I cannot figure it out. Why me? That is the question I cannot answer. So I have this pain trying to figure it out, every day.

Sorry I know others have had similar and worse.. Thanks for listening.

thanks mum2mum99