"But we took you to Stately Homes!" Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[OnceAMeerNotAlwaysAMeer]

It's November '15, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
Oct 14 – Dec 14
Dec 14 – March 15
March - Nov 2015

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

More helpful links:

Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Homecoming
Will I ever be good enough?
If you had controlling parents
When you and your mother can't be friends
Children of the self-absorbed
Recovery of your inner child

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

I don't know how to do things just for myself
Jesus Christ
How pathetic is that!?
I am 43!!!

Along all these lines of being the caretaker and having to behave like an adult at an early age do you all think you are good at having fun? I think I find it hard to truly let go because I was caring for myself since the age of 13.

I think I have a gsoh and some wonderful friends but I wonder if I need to learn to have more fun because having "fun" i.e. be irresponsible was actually dangerous for large parts of my life because no one would have been there to help if something seriously went wrong.

So I suppose there is fear at the bottom of the "letting go" idea. Now I am much happier and in a really good place so I want to learn how to let myself have more fun!

Does anyone relate?

Badders I am 47 mate these patterns are learnt young and when your needs are TOTALLY IGNORED by your own family it can be very hard to identify them.

I just feel....adrift.
God, talk about mid life crisis
How very predictable

I've always wanted to come in here. Why the title?

Badders it probably is because your identity is so wrapped up in your role. You need to spend time recognising who you really are and what your values and goals are.

I find in these enmeshed codependent relationships it can be very had to see themselves as separate with their own identity as that has never been allowed.

I have realised recently for example that my DH cannot cope very long alone without me and/or kids. He absolutely hates it and will either rush to where we are or ship a family member in to replace us.

I think this comes from his mum because again I have identified recently that she is terrified of abandonment/being alone as then she has no identity. Because really she has no idea who she is. I realised this after reading about Borderline and this is the chief characteristic. It was a huge "AHA" (thank you Alan Partridge) moment as I suddenly saw all their behaviour in a new light.

Good evening fellow adult children of shit parents!

I have posted on here many times over the last few years whilst I fought my way through the FOG. This thread is special as it is the only place we can get the validation we desperately need by people who understand. Our parents certainly won't give it and it's not something that's easy to discuss in RL.

I have been two years and 2 months NC with my family of origin now. The grief is starting to get easier. In that I can summon up more anger when I think of my family than guilt that I 'devastated' my mother when I told her what I thought of her (the catalyst for NC - their choice). The pain did almost break me at times as I was the scapegoat and have OCD/panic attacks and I truly had decided that I was the 'crazy' one and it WAS me being too sensive

Morning all, well the flying monkey has started their antics again... this time they have managed to circum navigate me blocking them from my landline, I had 4 x calls yesterday. I have been NC with my family for 1.5 years now. Got through Christmas and New Year unscathed, then when I thought I had made it through this happened.

I then starting receiving abusive texts, accusing me of having mental health problems and making threats to tell all who will listen. I can't say the full extent incase they lurk on here and I will be outed. I really need some advice today as I am feeling very panicky and I was starting to feel a lot less anxious. Feel like back to square 1 and doubting myself really is it all in my head, I would not have gone NC without a good enough reason and have been waiting for years to have the courage to do it. How dare I though and upset the dysfunction of the family. Any help and advice would be greatly appreciated..

angelwings3,

re your comment:-

"I then starting receiving abusive texts, accusing me of having mental health problems and making threats to tell all who will listen"

Do not respond to the message, or get someone to speak to them on your behalf, it may only encourage the sender (the contact from you is the reward) or make the situation worse.

Take a screen shot of and retain any messages, if it is later deleted then you will still have a record of what was said.

I would show these text messages to the police because a number of criminal offences (these being Malicious Communications and Harassment) are being committed here. They need to be stopped and warned off by the authorities. I presume you have now blocked this number from your mobile phone via your mobile network provider. I would have no compunction about doing either action because everyone deserves a life free from such harassment.

Do continue to write as much or as little as you wish on here.

You would not indeed have gone no contact without good reasons so do not worry that it is you at fault here. Its not you, its them.

Good luck angelwings, you show these morons that such actions do have consequences for the sender.

Hi Atilla, thank you for your reply, much appreciated. The person who is making the calls and sending the texts is unstable herself. I have received birthday cards from them always with a nasty undertone and letters, texts. Which I ignore usually but this time they are trying to involve where I work . They turned up at my old place of work looking for me last year. Luckily the person they spoke to didn't tell them where I had moved on to. I am unable to block the number on my phone it doesn't allow me to do it. So I may have to change both my numbers now. Which is a right pain in the butt!!!.

angelwings,

You've tried ignoring her and she has further upped the ante.

Do report this individual to the police all the same; she needs to be stopped and you have every right to be no longer harassed. She may well be unstable (or has some form of personality disorder) but this person has already showed up at a previous employer looking for you as well as sending abusive text messages. That is even more reason she needs to be dealt with by the police. This is indeed a matter for the authorities; let them now deal with her. Such actions have consequences for the sender.

I would think you have thrown all such letters and cards away upon receiving but these could also be used as evidence against her as well.

Your mobile phone provider needs to be contacted; they will help you block this person's number. They need to be informed as well.

Do not be intimidated; you have every right to go about your business free from such harassment.

Thanks Attila, I have sorted out my mobile, it's taken all morning but hopefully it should work.

Yes all letters and cards gone in the bin as I don't want to keep being reminded of the drama, hate, bitterness, psychoticness of them.

I fully understand that but any future correspondence should be shown to the police as evidence.

You have every right to go about your business and life without the fear of harassment. You must never live in fear.

What she is doing is after all a criminal act for which she could face prosecution. Being unstable is no excuse for her actions. Have no compunction now about calling the police and speaking to them about this matter.

Thank you I will have to seriously consider it now. Its not a road I wanted to go down but they obviously are not respecting my boundaries and are unable to control me. So she is now going to unacceptable lengths to try and gain contact.

This is really now a matter for the police. Let them deal with her. She needs to be reported to the authorities; her behaviours cannot be allowed to go unreported or unchecked any longer because she will certainly further try and contact you.

I agree with Attila...this is really a police matter now.
Well.
I phoned my sister this morning (ostensibly about trifle :) but really I wanted a chat about mum)
It transpires that the reason mum sat with a miserable face all night was that my niece (the golden boys child) was not there.
She spends EVERY weekend with her aunt so my bro and sil can go out drinking.
I would have thought they would have made an exception for mums 70...but no.
According to my sister, mums been all PA "no, it's fine" about but she was obv upset.
Sigh.
If only she would actually tell us how she really feels instead of the PA lying.
Anyway.
I've told my sister I can't do it anymore. I can't go everyday. It's making me ill.
I've told her I'm going to go every other day.
I won't go on Tuesday as my fil is popping over to plant the rose bushes they bought her for her b day.
I will go weds and fri, then if she needs to go shopping I can take her.
As my sister said, my friend will realise that mum lies and get fed up soon enough.
And as for yesterday...her other 4 grandchildren were there!

Badders your mum is like a giant toddler.

That is EXACTLY what I told my sister this morning

badders good for you, step by step.

My mum turned up at my house today, sober but interesting as this is very out of the ordinary. Normally she would expect me to initiate contact, so me backing off a bit seems to have thrown her a bit. I was brief and did not offer any information really. I don't want to cause serious issues and a fall out but just want the drama out of my life. Backing off emotionally seems the best thing to do.

Have agreed to meet her next weekend with the family for a relatives birthday. She wanted to meet in the evening but I refused (evening = drunk). So it is now lunch.

I appreciate many go completely NC but at the moment this reduced contact on my terms is a huge step forward for me.

Reduced contact on your terms is great. That was my plan with my mother but as she is an engulfing narcissist, the moment she got a sniff of me trying to back off she went totally nuclear, total batshittery to try to force contact and the more batshit she got the less I responded and then she stormed off. So, do what you need to do but always be prepared for Defcon 1.

That's how I feel too
I need to back off slowly
The sad thing is that my sister and I - who are the ones who do everything for mum - are passed over for my brother who only sees mum to either;
Borrow money
Look after their child
Just....odd.

I'm hoping you don't mind me jumping in. I've read this from start to finish, and so much has resonated with me to do with PIL. I've posted about them on Relationships before but I think I would have done better coming straight in here.

FIL is a vile narcissist, with MIL the abused, down-trodden, (no-longer-active) alcoholic, enabling wife.

They have four sons, and DH is Son#2. Son#1 is married to SIL1 (although PIL don't actually know that, it's a recent thing) and have just had DC1. Son#3 is married to SIL3 with two young DC. Son#4 has a girlfriend (GF4), who PIL know nothing about. We get on well with all the brothers and their lovely wives.

Over the last couple of years, DH and I have been gradually reducing contact because of how horrible FIL is. Sons#1+3 have been on the receiving end of constant horrible phone calls, letters, meetings, etc., but have not yet realised that it will never get better. They hold out hope for a peaceful resolution. Neither of their wives agree though, and are just waiting for them to "wake up", so to speak.

We saw the light when FIL was caught lying about something he said - he told MIL, who in turn told me and SIL3, that he hated SIL1, thought she was useless and not good enough for Son#1. We spoke to Son#1 and SIL1, who understandably got very upset and had it out with FIL, who point-blank denied ever having said it. MIL claims she never told us anything either. (We were all staying at PIL at the time!)

There were then other incidents that have made us persona non grata, but basically I (and the other SILs) are evil wenches who have stolen his sons away from him, and he can no longer control them utterly. He has always controlled them, and they have always done his bidding like foot soldiers. (FIL is ex-army.)

We haven't really been in contact with them for a year now. FIL hurled abuse down the phone at DH when he realised we were pulling away, and since then things have been slightly more peaceful.

Although, actually, the issues are still ongoing. FIL got his own father to send a hateful letter to all four sons, telling them they are bastards for basically not bowing down anymore. We sent PIL a Christmas present from our DC, and got something in return, although the card was full of passive-aggressive shite from MIL. (The present was clearly a mistake. Won't be doing that again.) I don't yet know how to say thank-you - or whether we even should.

The grandfather rang DH last night and gave him an earful, which really upset him. He said that if the brothers continued acting in this selfish way, he'd next see them at his own funeral, etc. etc. Real guilt-trip stuff. DH eventually got angry about it, which helped. To start with, he was momentarily back in the FOG.

FIL sent us a horrible letter a few weeks ago, in which he rewrote history to suit his own agenda, blaming me for lots of things, and demanded DH go to their house (two hours away) to pick up some things (including valuable things) and to have a private conversation (all sorts of hints dropped about what that might be about). We are firmly ignoring the letter, although DH would dearly love to write a reply.

However, the other sons have also received similar demands, and they do want to go to pick up their things. The consensus is that the brothers should go together to show FIL that he can't "divide and conquer" (a favourite tactic of his) and that the sons are united.

I am terrified of this happening. FIL is violent (has been to MIL in the past), owns a shitload of guns, and is a total loose cannon at the moment. We have heard from various sources that he keeps losing it with people he would normally keep up his perfect appearance with. Written down like that, it seems obvious that they shouldn't go, but as I say, the other brothers don't really realise what they're dealing with. I don't know if we do either, actually, but I think we're closer than they are.

Thanks for reading if you've got this far. I'm sorry so many of us have this sort of shit to deal with. It's such a mindfuck.

Hello Milch and cookies. The whole situation sounds like an utter nightmare, if FIL actually threatened anyone it might be wise to get the police domestic violence involved or at least informed. Are you in the UK?

Badders my MIL has always idolized her son - do you think her son came before her marriage in emotional importance to her? I think you and your sister know that you can never win your mother's approval and nothing will be good enough for her.

Unfortunately my MIL is also another toddler, it sounds so unkind but is truthfully where she is emotionally. Good for you for finally putting in place some boundaries and limits, you should gradually keep stepping back. There doesn't seem a need for you to be at your mother's so often.

Learning about all these dynamics in DH's family I realised that his mum put him in the role of dad/husband. Then I realised that meant she could be a child/wife in the dynamic. So then I wondered "what is my role?" I realised that I am the mum and the boring adult who is expected to watch the kids, keep house and be responsible while she clings to DH and they make plans and go off for the day together. She wants to cream off the fun and best part and expects me to do everything else. My DH is still in the FOG and doesn't quite get what is happening. I have finally figured out why I feel like my boundaries are trampled when she comes to visit. She is not inherently cruel she is immature, but as a result is delusional and paranoid. DH get markedly more anxious and paranoid when she is around.

Milch you can see that Narcissistic traits can be learned and taught down the generations if FIL's father is joining in the emotional terrorism.

I haven't read it but have it on my shelf and everyone highly recommends "Why does he do that?" by Lundy Bancroft about abusive men. The byline is "inside the minds of angry and controlling men".

Yes.
My sister took my mum shopping last week and they passed my brother on the road.
My mum said "oh he will phone me now he has seen me" and actually got her phone out of bag waiting for him to call.
So, so sad :(
He looks very like my late father - but then again, so do I!!