"But we took you to Stately Homes!" Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[OnceAMeerNotAlwaysAMeer]

It's November '15, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
Oct 14 – Dec 14
Dec 14 – March 15
March - Nov 2015

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

More helpful links:

Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Homecoming
Will I ever be good enough?
If you had controlling parents
When you and your mother can't be friends
Children of the self-absorbed
Recovery of your inner child

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

I hope that doesn't sound angry, badders I totally understand that crippling guilt and the sense of responsibility. Have you read anything about codepency? I posted an article about it recently I'll see if I can find it.

here

Thank you for the replies.
I am glad to know it's not all in my mind and that normal people do not behave like this!
The party is over.
It was ok. Mum very quiet. Neither of my siblings offered any money towards the cost (£150 worth of food and the cake:()
I tried to stay in the kitchen as much as possible.
My pils came and were very helpful.
I agree - my friend can do as much as she wants to for mum. It helps me, even though I might find her comments on my family hard to take.
It's hard.
I am mums executor and also her POA so I think, despite her treatment of me, I am the only one she really trusts.
It's just such a mess :(

I actually read this thread a few years ago and read the book "toxic parents"
I found it very helpful. But then dad died and Everything turned to shit.

She trusts you because the roles are reversed and you are her mum. You feel the obligation to always be responsible, caring, sensible, patient etc.

Although she does get to still be "the person in charge " and calls the shots so she gets all the advantages of authority and none of the work, worry, stress or responsibility.

It seems like you really need to share what is going on with other people in RL badders. Have you done that?

I don't really think she had a good time tbh.
But the alternative was her staying at home alone.
Dunno.
I feel like, whatever I do it won't be enough.
Last year 2 of her siblings died. She had to go to Ireland for the funerals.
I said I'd go and drive her around whilst there (quite a long way from Dublin) but I could only stay overnight due to the kids.
She went mad.
She refused and said if she was going she was going for at least a week.
I said ok...bye then!
Between her and the kids, I only spent 1 day in the 2 weeks before the end of school term not looking after ill children or visiting her in hospital :(
My sister went away for 4 days (handy) so didn't visit.
And my brother made it perfectly clear he was busy.
So that left me.
The day she was admitted I was the hospital for 8 hours.

I know you feel locked in this Badders, especially when she starts raging if she doesn't get her own way.

Can you make plans of your own to be away during the holidays? She will cope and survive without you as shown in a couple of your examples.

What life do you have of your own when you are not being everyone else's carer?

Ugh, I'm feeling so conflicted about this. Backstory is my father cut me out last April as I wouldnt 'accept' his new GF who he met weeks after my mother passed away. It's a huge story but basically he said unless I accepted her as part of the family and was nice to her then I could go to hell. The reason I wasn't interested was she started causing grief between my father and I and wanted my father to stop speaking to me 'to teach me a lesson' I'm 42 FFS!
I haven't spoken to him since then apart from in August when I could stand in more so rang him to try and sort it out. He was cold as ice and not interested unless I relenented. Well I'll never do that - she's a bitch and nothing to me, she's his GF.
He's never had much to do with my kids and when this happened he just ignored them the same as he did me.
I think it showed his true colours as if he really had any interest in his GK's then he would have kept in touch by email or text (they are teens).
He sent them a Christmas card now with £40 in it for each of them so I told them to text him a thank you which they did. I didn't want to give him any opportunity to say that I've not brought my children up with manners.
Since then he keeps texting them, always with lots of kisses (which is unlike him - I think it's her doing it) to wish them a happy Christmas, happy new year, lots of love etc.
Now he hasn't bothered with them for 8 months, why the texts now? HIs GF is a manipulative bitch and I think it's her attempt to simply wind me up through the kids.
I'm torn between allowing them to keep in touch with him or telling them to ignore him. They are early teens and have been quite hurt by my fathers attitude and behaviour over all of this.
I'm not sure how to proceed, tell them to reply with a short simple message or ignore completely.
To ignore completely will then give my father ammunition to say 'I did try to contact the GC's but they are ignoring me' play the victim etc.
Any ideas?

I talk to dh about it a lot poor thing
He despairs really.
I did talk to my friend about it all and I thought she understood (she had a golden child brother too) but it seems she thinks mum needs her more than I do.
She may have a point I guess.
How do you just do the bare minimum?
Kids are back at school on Tuesday - so I will pop in after drop off (she lives just around the corner from the school...I drive past her house on the way home)
If she needs taking somewhere (shops, Drs etc I will take her)
But I need to stop going again later in the day.
I also need to stop going to appts etc. In fact I have asked my sister to take her to see the consultant when she goes back later this month and she has agreed.
My friend is taking her to her mammogram appt so that's another thing I dont have to do.
We are not taking her on holiday with us this year....after last year that's something I won't be repeating!!
I guess that's progress!

Badders... You threw the party, you invited everyone, why would they offer you money?

Think about it.

Don't throw a party you don't want to pay for. :)

Detach love. Listen to good she's been through similar and can help you a lot with the fog and the repercussions

You don't have to pop in to your mum. Get your other sister to, or your/her friend to go.

Back away.

Knit...that's really rough. I'm sorry. I have heard a similar thing a few times though...a person is widowed and moves on very quickly to the detriment of their children.
I wish I had any advice!
Tbh...my life is caring. It's all I do. I haven't worked since I got pg with ds2.
Since ds2 was born Dh has been promoted which means much more foreign travel.
Ds2s health has been poor for the last 3 years. He had an emergency op last year.
Dad died 2.5 years ago. He dropped dead in front of me. Dh and I tried CPR but we failed. Later that same day mum had a heart attack.
My sister was away on holiday, my brother catatonic with shock. Everything fell to me.
Since then mum has been in and out of hospital, so has ds2. So have I!!
It's been pretty grim really.
Trying to find term time pt work is more or less impossible. I have tried. Weekend and evening work is no good as what do I do when Dh is away? Some months he is away for 2 weeks.
I did do voluntary work before dad died but has to stop as I had to be there for mum and the kids.
I'm so, so tired.

Sorry, should have said, my sister told me she was going to give me some money towards the food...I didn't ask!

My brother and sister work.
They are "too busy"

Maybe I should only go every other day?

badders your post makes me so sad, particularly 'I resent that my childhood ended at 11' - I know exactly how you feel and it's not fair.

The situation works for your siblings - you care for mum and they can get off fairly responsibility free. No one is going to tell you that you're doing too much, you have to tell that to yourself. They're all totally taking asvantage of you and the only person who is going to prioritise you is you.

You become busy, cut down what you do and stop offering. It's hard because you want things to be fixed but they won't be, no matter how much you try and plug the gaps by looking after everyone all the time. You're absolutely consumed by the guilt, but the thing is why should you suffer when she's the one who is behaving so poorly?

Don't go to appointments with her - if she lies, she lies. Don't offer to take her places, don't feel obliged to do things. If she wanted someone as lovely as you in her life she should have treated you better.

knit I don't feel knowledgable enough to give advice but didn't want to read and run. Your dad sounds so incredibly manipulative and I would agree with you that there are motives behind the sudden contact with his GC.

BTL...your lovely post has made me cry. Thank you x

knit if you really are concerned, get the ds numbers changed and in future thank your dad yourself on their behalf.

badders

What the other respondents have told you in their entirety. You've been trained, probably before the age of 11 as well, to serve your mother at your own overall expense.

Its hard being the last one left but you owe your mother and your siblings a big fat zero really. Its the FOG that keeps you trapped within this dysfunctional family of origin dynamic.

Thanks Badders, some of your posts have rung true with me too. My brother is the golden child out of us, me the scapegoat, yet when my DM was alive I was the one that helped them out at every turn, despite them never having time or interest in me or my life. My mother was an alcoholic and didn't stop until it killed her. I was always there for my father, he only had to ask for anything and I'd drop everything to help him out, probably doing too much as I always felt sorry for him and the terrible life he had with my mother. My brother has been allowed to live at home, rent free for most of his life, been given lavish presents etc but I was kicked out at 17.
I had managed to put all these differences behind me and never blamed my parents but always tried my best for them. A typical people pleaser I would put them over my own husband and kids at times. As soon as my mother died though my father seemed to think he was entitled to happiness over all else and sod anyone who didn't agree with him. My brother tried to stick up for me but has ultimately sided with my father, did a big 'about turn' just before christmas so I expect a money gift was given. My brothers GF has suddenly become 'besties' with my fathers GF so I'm wondering if the snaking up to my children is their attempt to get everyone on side except me.

Ah, ok badders, then drop her a text and say that you didn't mention it at the party, but the total cost is 150, and what did she want to contribute.

You need to assert yourself a little more I think, be heard. :)

Badder you have a ton going on in your life and have been through the wringer emotionally in the last few years.

Maybe you could start by slowly stepping back - visit every other day and ask your siblings to do more and have more balance. Your brother needs to step up, he gets all the glory and sounds like he is doing nothing. Can the three of you get together and figure out a minimum you are all willing to do?

You also have a job - caring for your family and your dcs and your own health.

Were your parents ever dealing with any addictions or other problems?

I realise I bring a lot of this on myself.
It's something I am trying to work on.

hi badders! I've been reading your posts here and it all sounds so familiar. I really don't know the answer and 3 years after my mum died I still go over and over how my siblings were with me, esp my sister, who sounds identical to your mum. I'm watching this thread with interest, there seems to be so many great posters here and so much of it resonated with me.

I don't have an answer, I'm barely coming out the fog myself, but I wanted you to know I'm thinking of you and wishing you the best and wishing us both different families!

They both smoked like chimneys! Caused my dads death and mums current health issues
No drink or (non prescription) drug issues
I have tried to ask my siblings to do more. Falls on deaf ears.
My mum was very upset in July...the anniversary of dads death...and my sister went on holiday and my brother went out a shot so drunk he was sick for 2 days.
So down to me again.
I am not sure I have even begun to grieve for my dad.
I haven't had time