"But we took you to Stately Homes!" Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[OnceAMeerNotAlwaysAMeer]

It's November '15, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
Oct 14 – Dec 14
Dec 14 – March 15
March - Nov 2015

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

More helpful links:

Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Homecoming
Will I ever be good enough?
If you had controlling parents
When you and your mother can't be friends
Children of the self-absorbed
Recovery of your inner child

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Evening all. I've often lurked as not sure whether I belonged on this thread as it seems trivial compared to some stories but having a hard time.

I've posted on relationship under "in laws ignoring DH" but most people are kindly saying just take things slowly.

Long and short is I've been with DH for 10yrs. In all this time SIL has always made snide comments about or to him at family gatherings and everyone just laughs or joins in. When he first met me SIL and MIL were very nasty to him about starting a relationship and said he should be concentrating on his DD 10. I had two of my own who were 3 and 5 and we made a nice little family of 5 (with usual family bickers etc). If at family gatherings SIL would try to discipline his DD and take over. there's more to this including the fact DSS was very hard to deal with as a teenager and would regularly make up things to get her own way. When we asked for help from BIL or SIL they didn't listen and just showered her with gifts and invited her to their house instead. Rich uncle v dad made it hard for DH while they relished being the fabulous relatives.

Move to 4 years ago where we fell out with BIL. It was a misunderstanding (again a long story and linked to something DSS said we did) but they wouldn't believe our side and so they cut contact as did SIL who took their side and his parents. Suddenly we were not invited to any family gathering. In the last 4 years we went to a funeral and then to his parents 50th this summer. They continued to invite DSS to parties which was nice for her but only served to rub our noses in it.

I couldn't face going to the party with the atmosphere so I sent a msg to BIL saying life was too short to be strangers. He agreed and seemed quite friendly. The party seemed ok and I thought we'd turned a corner but I wonder if it was show to the rest of the relatives.

We invited BIL. And his family to Sunday roast soon afterwards and they said they'd be in touch soon.

Move forward 4 months and we've not seen any of them. BIl has them all round on Xmas day (we're never invited) We asked to see his parents this week and they said they were busy apart from one day which is fine so we're meeting for lunch. Except today on FB there is a photo of all of them at MILs house yesterday when they said they were busy.

It just hurts that they continue to have gatherings without DH. He just says we should cancel lunch and ignore them but that seems wrong. However every time something like this happens I feel so awful.

Mistress Miggins (do you have a nice pie shop? ) - your DH is actually on the money with cancelling and ignoring.

Have you had a read of Toxic In-Laws? I think it might really help you to understand the dynamics at play here. Especially if your own family of origin is normal and loving.

tootired i really don't think it matters to your recovery whether you mum is a narc, an addict, has BPD or any other personality disorder. Basically, she's an abusive shit, and you are damaged from that abuse no matter what "flavour" it is.

My own mum does not fit the narc label - she's closer to histrionic PD with a side order of avoidant. It doesn't change the fact that she's utterly over-involved in my life, emotionally (or rather she was) and totally disinterested in my DS.

My dad wasn't a narc - he fit sociopath more clearly. Doesn't change the fact that he sexually abused me (not to mention emotionally and physically as well) - the damage is still done.

I think NPD is one of the more "overt" types of PD - there is more known about it and the traits are easier to spot. Get someone with BPD or HPD and the consensus can be "Oh the poor thing, she is ill" - which is of fuck all help to the helpless child being raised in a poisonous environment.

mampam They really are class A shits, aren't they? Like you needed more confirmation of that!

I can't remember how old your DC are, and you may have already taken action on this, but would it be possible to talk to all the kids together and explain to them that GPs are fucking bonkers and have deliberately given presents to the younger ones (and the fucking dog!!! jesus) but not the older one, because they want to be mean and hurtful. And ask the DC what they want to do with the presents? Make it a very open choice and perhaps if the younger ones want to keep the pressies, you could let DC1 choose something as an extra present or treat for themselves?

Then let them know that next xmas, and for birthdays in between, you will not be getting presents from GPs, because we don't accept gifts from people who deliberately try to hurt one of the family (not just DC1 but also your DH.)

It's a really shitty way (and time) for them to have to learn about horrible people, but maybe you could turn it into an opportunity for the family to feel even stronger as a unit?

A quick note to say thank you Attila. What you said on 25th was bang on, I also spoke to someone who knows me and DM in RL, they said a few things along similar lines - that I need to be clearer and not just avoid asserting myself, that I need to set and assert much better boundaries with DM, that I need to go LC or NC, and definitely to keep DD away from the drunkard behaviour.. this person also has a toxic DM so I know she gets it. I find it hard to assert myself, I grew up being punished any time I expressed an emotion, having my boundaries violated, and have never quite learnt to handle myself. I really hope to fix that and help my DD learn another way.

I didn’t go or take DD to the meal today that DM was trying to control us into attending. Told an Aunt why as I didn’t want to upset her. No word from sister who I was supposed to meet there. The Aunt came by afterwards. Part of me is really upset that the whole family met without me and DD, on DD’s birthday and it sounds like they had a nice meal all together.. I know that’s crap, and it would have been excruciating to go which is why I didn't want to! I just wish I had that normal, happy family but it doesn’t really exist here. I feel guilty, the bad outsider who is being deliberately difficult.. it’s really hard to shake this stuff even when you know it’s the FOG.

Funnily enough, having not gone to the meal and ignored the threat of DD’s Birthday money not being given (in the text on Boxing Day).. the money arrived c/o the Aunt, tucked inside a card this afternoon. I reckon the Aunt probably had something to do with that.

Mampam, if I were in your shoes I don’t think I’d be keeping those presents, as your ILs sound much more nasty in nature than my DM. I think they’d get a kick out of knowing you kept them if they saw your DC with them for example? And it would act as an encouragement? One thing you could do is give them away quite obviously (without making contact), e.g. to neighbourhood children - or simply put them outside with a note saying ‘take me’. Either that or Ebay or giving to charity? The options that feed the ILs least (just quietly giving them away) are probably best, because they are looking for a reaction, any reaction from you.

Not really sure why I feel the need to post, maybe it is part of my processing what happened yesterday?
I have decided to go nc with my father and step mother after 30 years of neglect, emotional abuse and generally being always the last to be considered after her 2 children and my sister. My ds is always the last of the grandchildren to be thought of too. I have had enough, especially after her screaming at me and assaulting me (a push, but an assault nevertheless) yesterday.
I have been on tenterhooks all day today waiting to see if any of my family would contact me, especially my sister who was there, but nothing. Not sure if they are giving me time too cool down, waiting for an apology, or whether I have been disowned by all of them.

Hello Droitwich, sorry you had such an upsetting experience. It sounds like NC with this toxic pair will be a relief for you and your DS.

Is your birth mum in the picture at all?

Thanks pocket I needed to hear that my DM is an abusive shit

droitwich how terrifying! Are you ok? What on earth happened for you to get shoved?

mistressmiggins nothing about your post is trivial.. But there is irony in the fact that most first posts here have some kind of similar phraseology.

The situation you have is watching someone you love being hurt by his family and you feel powerless to do anything. If your h says cancel lunch, then cancel lunch. Let him lead the way on this, talk to him about how he feels and support him. That's all he'll need really, is someone on his side.

I'd limit the exposure to dsd too if I were him. His family sound awful.

Some fantastic advice and support generally from pocket I just found myself nodding at all your posts!

This is the toughest time of the year for stately homers, but we're over the bulk of it now, and perhaps along the way we can take advantage of the new year to increase our determination and resolution to enjoy life and only spend it with those who make us feel valued and wanted.

I had the "have you been in contact with your mother"? And "live's too short" comments from my uncle, but I reminded him of a few really painful episodes and said an apology or recognition of what she had done would have gone a long way to fixing things. I told him that i had told her this at the time, but she would clearly rather not have any contact than apologise. That's fine. I have all the time in the world.

I also reminded them that her only acknowledgement of moving without telling me where contained the words "well, we were never that close"

So there you have it. That, to me, is an answer.

Life's not live's #grr

Hi droitwich!

My mum has always been passive when I've gone NC (once 5 years ago when I got back in contact soon after, and now when I've been NC for 4 months). It's in contrast with a lot of people on the thread whose NC relatives go to more and more extreme lengths to suck them back in. I suspect this is because my mother knows exactly that she has zero chance of me entertaining any of her shite any more. I wonder if it will be the same with you?

Hello, I'm hoping someone can advise me. I've lurked on this thread for a while, taking lots of useful information and finally feel less alone. I registered today as my head is in pieces following contact with my family yesterday. My parents are controlling and manipulative, my only sibling (older brother) physically and emotionally abused me from as early as I can remember and they did little to intervene, short of shouting, hitting when my cries for help became too irritating.

I had something of a breakdown about 3 years ago when I finally admitted to myself the reality of my dysfunctional family and began to get things in place in my life so that I could recover for both my own sake and that of my supportive loving husband and 2 beautiful children.

I am in counselling, though my therapist is currently off sick and her boss is waiting to hear whether it will be a long term thing or not so haven't seen her for a few weeks. I am very low contact with my parents and only see my brother when we meet at their house.

Christmas rolled around and my mum asked if we would go over yesterday for a buffet. I stupidly agreed (and am now very angry with myself) as I thought maybe we really could have a pleasant experience with them for once. Well, my brother and sister in law were there with their son, whom repeatedly called an arsehole and told him to do things like "Go and get me some crisps, now, lazy." (He's 2 :-()

I spent some time attempting normal conversation with my mum in a very weird atmosphere and heard my daughter getting upset in the next room. I could tell my brother been saying something to her and as our children posed for photographs he loomed over smirking and staring. The fear in my child's eyes made me want to vomit. We left, to the sound of my mum's cries behind us, "You're not leaving now are you? Where are you going? We've not finished, we have drinks for you."

After speaking to my 7 year old, a picture has emerged that he was gas lighting her (telling her untrue things and responding to her protests by telling my father she's being dramatic). He also told her he's going into her school to speak to her teachers and tell them she's naughty at home. Which has really worried her. She was upset, and doesn't understand why her uncle is so cruel.

I know I cannot risk a repeat of this. Thankfully we have DH's mum and a wonderful group of friends who pour love and acceptance into our children's lives and so that is what I will continue to expose them to and keep their influences positive.

I'm dreading having a conversation or confrontation with my parents about this but on the other hand feel that why on earth shouldn't I speak up, to them and to him? Can someone advise me please on what to do next? I feel that NC may be the only way. I just want to disentangle myself from all this but in the past have been unsuccessful as they just increase the pressure and vacuum me.

Many thanks in advance.

Welcome Cherry. You can be in control. You don't have to have anything to do with any of them again if you don't want. You can just ignore them. Or you can ignore them until you feel strong enough to tell them why you don't want contact, or you can tell them you don't want contact. Do what will be best for you. Look after you.

Your brother is abusing his son. :(

Go NC with the whole lot of them and if they come anywhere near you say to them that not only will you get a non molestation order but you WILL report them to social services.

in fact, I'd contact nspcc for advice and if they agree with you, report them anyway. That poor child has no chance and if he's like that in public, imagine what he's like behind closed doors.

Cherry that sounds horrible, for both you and your poor DD.

How often do you currently see your parents?

Thank you for the replies.

Good, that is really helpful - as simple as it is, it sometimes feels so hard. But I will ignore them. I'm going to stop responding to texts. I've just blocked a load of family members on facebook as I know my parents glean information that way. They can't call my landline as we no longer have one. I just hope they don't start turning up on the doorstep as they have in the past.

Hissy , you're absolutely right. I keep hearing all my mother's excuses for him in my head every time I begin acknowledging that truth, then I doubt myself all over again. But I'm going to speak to someone tomorrow about my nephew.

Pocket, my contact has been variable over the past few years and prior to that I was totally enmeshed and spent whole days at their house having my self esteem chipped away to the point I completely lost myself. This year, I really put some boundaries in place, and they responded in anger, ramped up the call and messages, turned up at the house, each time with defensiveness, passive-aggression, and outright denial. My dad's favourite phrase became 'You've really upset your mother'. I end up caving in as I can't stand it all and it seems easier to just maintain low contact. Prior to Christmas, it was around once every 3 weeks-ish. But this I'm realising is too much. They've been on their best behaviour recently, acting all pleasant and kind and putting on a façade of doting grandparents for the extended family. They are going to be angry when I don't respond.

'You've really upset your mother'
Heh. I'm guessing on most people's list of "Top Ten Things Abusive Parents Say" this one would be pretty high up. It's like the gift that keeps on giving - the abuser can pretend that not only are they the wounded party but they are only mentioning it out of concern for the other parent.

Cunts.

Has your counsellor helped you put boundaries in place? Does he or she seem to encourage you to keep contact with your parents? This can be really damaging if you end up with a counsellor who just doesn't "get" the dysfunctional family dynamic.

By the way, you will notice that abusers react to their victims gaining in strength and confidence by redoubling the abuse, to try to put them back in their assigned victim position. Bear this in mind whenever you consider "am I hurting my parents" - your attempts to get them to treat you with basic human dignity and respect have been viciously attacked by them. They want you to be unhappy. It is fucking devastating to realise that the people who are supposed to love and protect you, actually want you to suffer, because they enjoy causing pain.

Your poor little nephew :( Agreed, it's a very good idea to speak to someone about what's happening.

If you do go NC and they keep trying to contact you, then you can send them a recorded letter saying we want no further contact and any attempts will be regarded as harassment and a police matter. Worth talking to the non-emergency police line (is it 101 in the UK?)

There's a helpful poster DisgracetotheYChromosome (hope i got his name right) who knows how it works.

Personally, I find preparing myself for battle helpful.

Expect them to kick up a fuss - let that wash over you and focus on getting past it without caving. Just refuse to engage. No replies, no texts/calls/emails etc, block them all on FB.

Expect that NOT to be the end of it (and you will therefore not be so floored by their hysterics). Focus on the calm waters beyond their maelstrom. Focus on what you want, which is freedom, peace and healthy family life.

If that "you've really upset your mother" line gets trotted out, prepare a retort.

You have ALL upset ME. AND you have involved my children in your sick little power games. That is it. You've crossed lines and there is no way back. Leave us alone or u will seek legal avenues to protect myself and the children in this family.

Shut the door, don't answer to them again.

Prepare for Defcon 1 if you think they are likely to become angry at being ignored. But also remember that it is just that, ANGER. Anger at being thwarted, at losing their whipping boy. Try to find some rage inside yourself too, that feeling of how dare they! It helps power through the first stage of NC and then you can take stock. If this were a friend treating you like this you would stop seeing or contacting them, family is no different just because you share bilogy, in fact as I think Hissy has said before, family should be held to higher standards as they are the people above all who aren't supposed to treat you badly.

Cherry

What the others have told you in its entirity.

Re this part of your comment:-

"I just hope they don't start turning up on the doorstep as they have in the past".

If they do, do not let them in or even answer the door to them.

I would speak to the NSPCC as soon as you are able to re your brother's treatment of his son. If this is what he is like with his son in public, I would hate to think what is happening to him within his own home.

I'm glad to see most of you survived the "happiest time of the year".

I received another flying monkey email (straight to spam folder, but unfortunately I noticed it anyway). Apparently said monkey doesn't "care" what job I do - I'm free to choose. Praise the Lord - I have official approval! Not sure I remember asking said monkey if it was OK with them if I did X for a living... there were a few other things there too - but mostly how it's not my parents fault.

Today I paid in a £200 cheque from a flying monkey. Aye, I know some would tear it up - but I need that fucking money.

Had a quick peek over at gransnet to see if I were being slagged off over there - can't spot myself, but it's amazing how many say "keep sending those letters/cards/gifts/mails" even though there is clearly NC in place by children. :(

Thank you so much for your responses, I really do appreciate you taking the time.

Pocket, my counsellor has been very helpful, and I like her, which has helped me to share and be vulnerable which I've always found agonisingly hard. She has made the statement that they are toxic in our sessions and asked when I mentioned NC how I felt about it, and if I felt it was something I could do. Unfortunately, I feel responsible for the feelings of everyone around me, and I'm really struggling to shake that off. When it comes to actually doing it, I bottle it as I'm so afraid of their reactions.

I have all these ideas of what I want to do/ say, but I can't get the words out. I can't stand up to them in the moment much of the time. I once called my mother out on something she was doing during a phone conversation, and despite my husbands animated approval in the background I practically had a panic attack and then spent days under an awful cloud, feeling terrible about hurting her. Even though, I question at times whether it's even possible to hurt someone like her.

I do really want 2016 to be the year I take control of this situation and draw a line in the sand.

Unfortunately, I feel responsible for the feelings of everyone around me, and I'm really struggling to shake that off. When it comes to actually doing it, I bottle it as I'm so afraid of their reactions.

You need to read about FOG, Fear, Obligation, Guilt.