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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Social Services Referal from police from one off incident

55 replies

meganmarie2604 · 11/11/2015 10:17

Two weeks ago me and partner had a domestic, which ended up in shouting and me being pushed to the floor. The police were called as our 16 month old son was present & saw what happened. Tonight we have the social services coming round to see myself and son without my partner being present & we are really worried as to what will be said etc. This is the first time the police have ever been called, as well as the referral to the social services, & we have been told that the social services will give us an ultimatum of either separate or have our son taken off us. Can somebody please help us on this situation as we both are petrified of what will and wont be said. Does anybody know the procedure & if this being the first and only occasion, whether they will still say the above about splitting or having our son taken away. This isn't something that happens regularly and was a one off occurrence where things just got too heated. Please no remarks as we know the situation shouldnt have happened in the first place, especially in front of our son.

OP posts:
misscph1973 · 11/11/2015 15:03

The SS are not going to take any child unless the child is in real danger. They do not have the resources anyway. I can understand why you are concerned, and I can't believe that your friend managed to convince you that your child could be taken, that is really not helping, that's scaring you.

I think these days when the police/SS get involved they have to investigate, that's procedure, and it's probably for the best. But it takes a lot more to remove a child, remember Baby P?

Don't worry about the SS. And I think it's fine to give our DP a second chance, none of us are perfect. Obviously it was pretty bad what happened, but I think you have responded appropriately. There is no need to make this more dramatic than it is, and I am sure the SS will understand, they just want to make sure that you are all well and that you know what to do in the unlikely event that this happens again.

summerwinterton · 11/11/2015 15:08

OP - do me a favour and look up the Freedom Programme - do it online if you can't in person. And please, stop thinking you can fix this or manage his behaviour. You cannot change anything he does - you can only be in charge of your response to what he has done.

What is he doing to fix this, is he going to the dr, getting counselling, or is he just sobbing and begging? You really need to open your eyes and look at this without emotion atm.

Blossomflowers · 11/11/2015 15:15

miss finally a sensible post that is constructive and non melodramatic

debedoo · 11/11/2015 15:45

I believe they will want to make sure you can protect your son in any situation. You may have to attend a course on domestic violence and your partner a course on drinking. If SS can see tiny taking these steps, they should close the case but be prepared for them to be involved for a while at least, I don't think they will just take your word for it.

I have no experience of this, just what I have read up on in other samples that started the same way.

Is your partner still at home or has Hebron ordered to stay away for a while?

I hope it goes well tonight, do come back and let us know how it went if you feel up to it, will need also need support to help yourself.

Good luck!!!

fishfingersinmysandwiches · 11/11/2015 16:12

I used to work for Women's Aid as both a refuge and floating support worker.

It is my professional experience that a one off incident of domestic violence is extremely rare. 999 times out of a thousand things tend to escalate. Pregnancy and the first year or two after the birth of a child is often when it begins for various reasons that I won't go into now as it would make my post very long. It is also my experience that when women say this has never happened before, what they tend to mean is a physical assault of this magnitude. Domestic abuse that has escalated as far as physical violence does not just spring up out of nowhere. There will have been other abusive behaviours (emotional abuse, financial abuse, name calling, possibly punching walls and throwing things to name a few examples) that will almost certainly over time have led up to the incident.

OP you are entitled to make whatever decisions around your relationship that you wish to. What I will say though, is that what comes across from your posts is that you are a) minimising what has happened (unsurprisingly - you are scared - I get that) and b) find the prospect of SS involvement far more concerning than the fact you have been assaulted by your partner in front of your young son. This is not the impression you want to be giving to SS.

But let me join the others in putting your mind at rest - there is no way on earth that SS are going to turn up and take your son. They can't do that. They may refer you to Women's Aid though who can offer you some non judgemental support.

All the best Flowers

Obs2015 · 11/11/2015 16:36

Hope it goes ok today.
Think very carefully about what you say. Listen very carefully to what they want you to do.
Make sure that you don't sound too dismissive, but also make sure that they are factual about what happened.
You need to work with them.

Offred · 11/11/2015 17:31

I agree with fishfingers.

SS coming is not as important as the fact your partner pushed you to the floor in front of your son.

You have clearly not asked him to leave the home for any period so you can get headspace to really think about what has happened and therefore it isn't sensible to rely on 'it was a one off incident' which is more likely to be something you hope rather than believe.

It is not helpful to be more scared of SS than a man who has got physical with you. You come accross as wanting to make it all go away.

It's quite a normal way to react but not helpful IMO.

There would be no harm at all in living separately while he takes action to show you you can believe it won't happen again. There is no benefit in brushing it under the carpet and hoping.

I don't think you come across as realising that this is an issue.

That said SS are not likely to take your DC. If you put that worry out of your head can you think through a little more rationally the seriousness of what happened and what it means for you/DC?

Twinklestein · 11/11/2015 21:19

Fishfingers but she covered pretty much what I was going to say.

You partner gets arsey when he's drunk. He may not have got this arsey before but I highly doubt he's never been arsey. No anger, aggression, control, verbal abuse...etc

You can say that he's never going to drink again, and you may mean it. But he may have other ideas, he may decide he doesn't want to.

Not being scared of him means nothing tbh, many women who end up in hospital were not scared of their partner.

I have to echo all the other posters who say that must be careful not to minimise with SS. At the moment you seem much more scared of losing your partner than anything else, and prepared to say anything to hold onto him.

To gain SS trust, your priority has to be your son.

meganmarie2604 · 12/11/2015 08:29

Hi all,

Just an update on last night and the SS. Well, they just didn't turn up. I understand they may have had other extremely more important issues than my own, but I had no phone call or anything. I called the main office but at 7pm nobody was there, my appointment was at 5:30pm. A little disappointed in them that no contact was made regarding my appointment as I had kept my son up past his bed time due to the SS saying they wanted to see him, but I guess these things happen. Hopefully Ill be able to re-arrange as soon as possible.

OP posts:
misscph1973 · 12/11/2015 09:31

fishfingers, I appreciate your experiences from Women's Aid, but what you saw is only the women who report domestics. What about all the unreported cases? Many women might decide that a domestic didn't need reporting.

I had a friend who's husband wasn't great, and he did end up hurting her during a domestic. She went to the doctor and got the incident recorded, but she never reported it to the police. Eventually they divorced, and I guess she kind of kept the incident as a last resort. I guess her plan worked, as she got what she wanted in the divorce, I think he knew that she hadn't reported it, but that she could.

My auntie and uncle had a marital crisis in the early part of their marriage. There was a lot of shouting and smashed plates, but there was nothing reported, they got over the crisis and they are still together after 40 years of marriage.

Don't judge, just try to understand.

Thanks for updating, meganmarie2604, quite an anticlimax! If I were you, I would call today and tell them how nervous you were and that it's not on that they just don't turn up!

Obs2015 · 12/11/2015 10:20

That's a bit poor, isn't it? Have you managed to speak to anyone today?

meganmarie2604 · 12/11/2015 11:08

I have finally managed to speak somebody to re-arrange. I had to contact them though which I do feel a little let down about but hay ho. They said that they went to the wrong house number and sat outside the house, but unfortunately I know they are fibbing, as I was looking through every window from 5pm, I was that nervous. Plus, wouldn't they have tried calling me? I think the appointment was just forgotten about. Anyway, I have managed to re-arrange for Monday so hopefully this time they will turn up.

OP posts:
Twinklestein · 12/11/2015 11:10

Women who turn to Women's Aid for help don't necessarily report to the police missc. Many do not.

And anyway, in this instance the OP did report it to police.

misscph1973 · 12/11/2015 14:30

Twinkle, I also think that many women don't even go to Women's Aid either. I'm quite convinced that lost of domestics never get reported.

I guess the point I am trying to make is that sh*t happens, even to good people, and that even good people make mistakes.

And if you ask advice on MN you will get told to LTB and report to the police, SS, WA, anyone who wants to listen. Make a big drama even bigger and more dramatic.

Twinklestein · 12/11/2015 14:34

Seriously, you're seeing this in terms of 'drama'??

If you make a 'mistake' that is a CP issue you will have the SS at your door...

WorzelsCornyBrows · 12/11/2015 14:48

OP I get that you think everyone deserves a second chance, but you're making that decision on behalf of you and your son, your son has no say in whether he wants to be put in that position again. Be very careful to be sure that your relationship with your DH isn't clouding your judgment here.

As for thinking that SS will be impressed that you've banned alcohol from the house, do you honestly think that will help? It seems to me it will just be another thing for you to argue over. If he doesn't have an alcohol problem then banning him from drinking is likely to cause arguments in the future. You need to be realistic in the way you deal with this, SS will see straight through any over the top platitudes.

Offred · 12/11/2015 16:38

Miss... Someone staying in a marriage for a long time after a DV incident says nothing about whether the relationship is good or whether it was a single incident.

I'm sure, and what fishfingers was saying is that, it is possible but highly improbable that someone who behaves abusively just once has never before and will never again behave abusively.

She was saying that rationally and objectively speaking it being a single incident is the least likely scenario and advising the op to learn about abuse and think about the relationship before this incident and the risks in the future in a more objective way than she perhaps has.

She wasn't crying LTB he will definitely do it again and worse. She was urging the op to get informed and make an informed choice as it's important for the DC and therefore something SS would look at.

Offred · 12/11/2015 16:40

Trusting what you feel about someone who has abused you (even just once) is not the best way to go about things.

redexpat · 12/11/2015 20:18

How does your DP feel about what happened? What is he saying about SS involvement?

BertieBotts · 13/11/2015 00:08

Can we not call them "The SS", they are not the nazi secret police! SS (without "the") is an okay acronym although technically they are called Children's Services these days, not Social Services.

Fishfingers speaks sense. DV/EA feels normal when it's what you know. Also when you're in an emotionally healthy relationship, your reaction to something of this nature would be different. It would be a total shock to the system, you would typically be extremely worried by such an out of character act, perhaps wondering if the person was ill, feeling wrong footed, unsure as to how to react, with a tendency to overreact because it's so far out of normal. The perpetrator would also typically be extremely shocked, mortified and upset over what they have done, in a different way to how abusers usually react. From what OP has posted about her DP, he might fit into this rather than the more typical abuser reaction, which tends to be either carrying on as normal as though nothing had ever happened or OTT apologies, extreme niceness in order to "make up for it". Sometimes, though, you do get the crocodile tears/self involved wallowing kind of abuser and this reaction is notable by the fact that it is entirely self-centred and focused on what HE may lose and how HE "always messes everything up" (or similar navel gazing rather than actual holy shit I had better change something and doing that) and is not followed by any action, except perhaps a token one, which will be quickly forgotten once the abuser regains favour. The sympathy from the victim is what they seek and once it is achieved they default to one of the more common abuser reactions of carrying on like nothing happened, or being super nice. It is NOT the fact that he has hurt or frightened people that he cares about being the centre of the upset. It's "what he might lose" and "I don't know why" and "Poor me, everything is hard for me/the world is against me".

When you are used to (perhaps "low level") emotional abuse or control then the tendency in this kind of situation is to underreact because it does not occur in a vacuum, it occurs against a backdrop of a kind of constant storm which you're always riding. Balancing how far you can assert yourself with how much it's going to bother them, picking your battles, avoiding saying something outright or going for more underhand methods of communication because you know from experience that it goes more smoothly. Hearing regular low level criticism which is never quite obvious, just enough for you to doubt yourself, and aimed just right so that it is believable because it aligns with your own insecurities. Typically assuming responsibility for tiny accidents and personality flaws of your own, and dealing with them before they even become noticeable, but also smoothing over theirs or excusing or not minding them, because they are "only human". Silently tallying up microtransactions within the relationship and keeping track of who holds the balance of "points" or favour. You assume that this is just the "work" of a relationship and that it is normal, or typical differences between men and women. You don't notice that others do not live like this. In fact, many do, so how others live isn't particularly relevant anyway.

When an argument escalates and breaks a boundary you feel let down and disappointed, and possibly shocked, but it is never totally out of the blue. You feel that you are partly responsible because you could have diffused the argument, or picked a better time to have it. You are so used to minimising or excusing tiny behaviours that you minimise and excuse this one, too - and mainly because you want it never to have happened, which is a totally natural human reaction. So you look for any way to make it not real. You might actually change your memory of the incident or downplay your recollection of it, convincing yourself that it couldn't have happened in the way you originally thought, because that's impossible. If this doesn't work, or in addition, you can effectively mentally make it "not count" if you can convince yourself that they didn't mean it. So you ascribe a gentler intent and assume a misdirected aim, or a poor choice of words, or decide that he didn't know how he was coming across. Or it was drink, or drugs, or the influence of a particular friend. It wasn't really him, you see, if you can blame it on drink or drugs. And if you just remove them then the problem will go away. Except that 99/100 it won't, because it's a very tiny proportion of people who are so violently allergic to drink or drugs that they make them act completely out of character. Even when you are drunk, you still have free will.

I am not talking about the OP or her boyfriend, BTW. I am describing the difference between experiencing an act of violence from a partner in an emotionally healthy relationship vs an emotionally unhealthy, or low-level emotionally abusive, if you like, relationship.

It's important/relevant, because if OP recognises her BF or her own feelings in the second category, then it might be worth a closer look at the relationship as a whole, painful though it is. (I don't expect a comment on this on the thread, don't worry :)) And because it paints a useful picture of what to do going forward. If YOU want to be sure that it won't happen again, and this should be more relevant than whatever SS decide - then it's worth BOTH looking at the entire situation and the different factors which might have lead up to it and whether anything can be done about those factors. Avoiding alcohol is a start but it's not going to be the only factor. And avoiding it only works if it's forever. BF needs to take responsibility, not in a self pitying way, but in a reasoned and measured way, and decide himself if there is anything he can do, rather than having actions decided for him by somebody else (though if SS suggest anything it is worth jumping through their hoops).

Good luck with everything Flowers

LineyReborn · 13/11/2015 08:54

Hi again OK. Have social services definitely now got your phone number? I think it's a bit that crap they didn't ring when they supposedly didn't find you in (at the wrong house).

When you do meet, it might be worth gently asking them how their mistake happened, and could they please make sure their records are accurate and show that you have always cooperated and engaged.

lilybetsy · 13/11/2015 09:19

This is a section 47 invetsigation as a police MERLIN has been issued.

They will come and talk to you, they may talk to others eg your childs doctor, A&E (ni case there have been injurys consitant with DV) his nursery if he goes to one

They will then decide if there is cause for concern. This can be anything from a case conference to consider a child protection plan, to closing the case with no further action

Dont worry. Be honest and upfront, dont minimise what happened, make it clear that you understand that DV in front of a child is serious, and what you will do to ensure it never happens again .... and everything will be fine,

DOI I work in child safeguarding

Gmum13 · 13/11/2015 12:53

I don't know if these things vary around the country but I have a friend with two young children who has been in this situation. Her partner and her were involved with SS due to DV, although I don't know the specifics of the incident(s). The partner was told he couldn't live with them for a period of time and was only allowed to visit between 9-6. He was also ordered to take 6 month DV course. The mother had regular visits from SS to make sure the children were being cared for and that the father wasn't there when he shouldn't have been. SS are still involved (a lot less frequently though) and her partner moved back in a few months ago.

I wouldn't be worried about losing your son, make sure SS know that you understand that DV is serious and agree with the things that they suggest to improve the situation.

Good luck with it all Flowers

sharonthewaspandthewineywall · 13/11/2015 20:28

No it's not a section 47. If it was a section 47 they would not have just not turned up and casually rearranged to come back some other time

fishfingersinmysandwiches · 14/11/2015 13:16

Lilybetsy what she will to do to ensure it never happens again?

Her partners behaviour is not her responsibility and there is precisely nothing she can do to ensure he never behaves in such a way again. Only he is in control of that.

Having said that OP, you need to be aware that social services tend to view both parents as being equally responsible for protecting children from DV (and in fact often focus their attentions on the mother as she is the one who tends to be the main carer). I have seen this happen over and over no matter what the dynamics of power and control within the relationship. Whether anybody feels this is fair or right is by the by - the role of social services is to focus on child protection. So the line is that they expect parents to protect children from domestic violence and that if for whatever reason they can't, or won't, then SS will.

However the removal of any child is a long drawn out process, with case conferences and trips to court, and any family will be given lots of opportunities to be seen to be improving matters before it comes to that. Removing a child from their home and family is an absolute last resort and social services do not want to do it unless absolutely necessary.

So don't worry.

Also, them not turning up and not ringing either? Absolutely typical.

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