Is there hope- can an abusive husband change?

[ShouldIstayorgonow]

I've NC'd for this and have never posted about my OH before but just don't know what to do for the best. My OH was kind when we met 25 years ago but looking back there were a few warning signs early on. We met at
uni and he did used to make the odd undermining comment about my abilities when I struggled with writing up my PhD but back then then I was confident and pretty opinionated on occasions.
The first violence was when I was around 5 months pregnant with DC1 a few years later. We argued at the bottom of the stairs, I grabbed his glasses from his face (no idea why) and he pushed me really hard and sent me flying backwards. He was really sorry and vowed it wouldn't happen again. At first we were "equal" in our jobs but when Dc2 came along we moved countries for a couple of years and I didn't have a work permit but enjoyed being at home with the DC.
Life was mainly good though I could be stubborn about my point of view sometimes and so he would occasionally (every 12-18 months) be violent. This was usually pushing me over and kicking me, grabbing me by the throat or pushing me down stairs.i had bruises but nothing more and told no one.

To everyone else we seemed like the perfect family and I convinced myself that the bad times were few and far between. We decided to try for DC3 (yes, stupid I know) but soon after I found a breast lump which had to be investigated then removed so we put that on hold for 3 months (all was fine). We then agreed to stop contraception and I fell pregnant straight away. He bought me flowers the day I told him but then became sulky over the next week and said he didn't want to delay having more independence by another 2 years (DC2 was 2 at the time). He wore me down over the next few weeks trying to get me to agrre to an abortion, I refused and cried a lot which annoyed him. He finally told me he had made an appointment for me to have a termination (the country we were in at the time allowed this to happen and would do the consent and abortion at the same time). He drove me to the clinic and I broke down in tears in the car park and refused to go in. His response was to get a vasectomy 2 weeks later and be uninterested in the rest of my pregnancy. He is now sorry and regrets his actions as far as Dc3 is concerned but has never seen how terribly he behaved towards me.

We returned to the UK near my parents and I worked part-time. OH got another job so we moved to the other end of the country a few years ago. He works away for a few days every week and i worked part-time until a couple of years ago when I was finding juggling everything (we live far from a town, or any family) too much. I would love to work again but don't think I'll get a good reference from my last company at the last few months I know I missed deadlines etc. as I was finding it hard. I've completely lost my confidence and know I need to get braver.
He still blocks my exit from rooms, pushes occasionally but hasn't been really violent to me for about 5 years. He interrupts everyone constantly, says our opinions are ridiculous and shuts down conversations when he feels like it. He can also be funny but is very unpredictable and often has underlying anger, glaring, slamming doors if anyone upsets him, which is several times over the weekend usually.

Sorry this is so long. I've come to the part which is very hard to write as I know I've failed my DC through my weakness. Once my eldest was 10 he upset OH about something and came running down to me. OH had hit him so hard his lip was bleeding. Since then he has hit Dc1 every 12-18 months, never with me around, usually upstairs. DC has now left for college and 2 weeks ago he started on DD1 instead. She had told him to go away when he went into her room to complain about something. He said it was self-defence but DC3 and I had to stop him going back in for more. He was white with rage and screamed and swore at us that it was nothing to do with us but then went outside. It seems he's transferred his violence from me to the DC.

Finally, too latei know, I told him to leave the house (he was due to travel with work a couple of days later anyway). He reluctantly went, saying we couldn't afford a hotel, that he needed me to collect some furniture we'd bought etc.
This was 2 weeks ago and since then I have told him to enrol in a domestic violence prgramme (but there's a 4 month waiting list) he's read the booklet on the respect website and has been saying how sorry he is etc. He says he's been crying himself to sleep etc but has been pushing and pushing to come back.
The Dc who suffered at his hands 2 weeks ago has swapped texts with him and wants to let him come back as he is trying to change.
We saw the GP together (I gave him an ultimatum) who was hopeless , only suggesting counselling and it was the Respect helpline who gave us details of a programme. Social services were informed but decided that they trust me to safeguard the DC , particularly as they are older.

I want to know whether someone like this can change?

He says he can see how bad his behaviour has been and wants to have an equal relationship with us all. He says "of course they would be safe with me back" but how can I trust him?
If he could be a decent kind man I would try again as the children have only 1 father and I would be worried how he would be with them if we split permanently. He's currently way for a third weel but I know he'll be pushing to come back next weekend.

Does anyone have any positive stories where men have turned things around successfully?

I am so sorry you are going through this OP.

I am a specialist in this area of work and take a slightly (but only slightly!) different view to some of the other posters. Some violent men can change if they want to and despite the concerns people have about perpetrator programmes, the evidence doesn't support the view that they learn how to manipulate better. In fact the evidence shows that whilst they don't change all men, they do have an impact on the majority (albeit at different rates). You can read the results of the largest longitudinal study of perpetrator programmes in the UK at this link.

HOWEVER - there is nothing that you have said in your posts so far that would lead me to believe that your OH is in any way genuine in his claim to want to change. He seems to be suggesting this solely to further manipulate you and given that he has been like this for years and years, even if he were genuine, change is still going to be hard. It is perhaps worth noting that those who do change are most likely to be those who have experienced significant losses associated with their behaviour (eg a marriage, a home, contact with their children, a clean criminal record etc). These losses need to be actual not threatened so oddly enough, the kindest thing you can do for everyone involved, is to leave him. You deserve better and so do your children.

If he really wants to change it has to be for himself and not because it is a way of 'winning' you back.

Yes you need to at least log it with the police...

Well done on Opening your bank account.

One thing that struck me from your post..When my Ex got police caution..He stopped in hotel ..He knew we couldn't afford it but he didn't care because he knew I I would..Thats why I let him back in which was my mistake

Please, please do not allow this monster back into your children's lives, he's an abusive arsehole and no they very rarely change, bad enough he took his anger out on you but he's actually been physically violent to innocent children, who you are meant to protect btw.

I know it's difficult when you're in the drama of the moment but if you take this cretin back, you will regret it for the rest of your life, you have choices, your children don't, make the best choice for them and stop concerning yourself with is bullshit wanting to change story.

Do transfer a sizeable chunk of whatever's in the joint account - if not, all of it. Of course he can't afford to stay in a hotel, but it's a jolly good way of punishing you (and the children) for not playing ball.

Thank you everyone, I appreciate the advice.

AnnieKenny thank you for the link to the Durham research, a lot of work obviously went into pulling everything together. It was encouraging in some ways but it seems that most men still feel a sense of entitlement deep down even if their behaviour changes superficially. I recognised myself in some of the comments from the women. I'm pretty sure my area doesn't have a CCR unfortunately as everything has been a bit disjointed so far (GP, local DVPP, social services).

Oh's behaviour is long-standing, but the violence is infrequent, every 12-18 months or so. I think that is why I believed him each time he said it would never happen again. I can see things much more clearly now and know that it will never happen again because he won't have the opportunity as he won't be here but anecdotally is there any difference in outcome between men who beat their wives/girlfriends/ children every week and the intermittent batterers like my OH?

Now I am finding out so much more about DV he ticks virtually all the other boxes for verbal/ emotional abuse and this happens daily when he's here. Strangely when away with work he is lovely on the phone.
I think back to going on holiday this Summer- I and the DC had packed everything and were well ahead of schedule for leaving the house. I came across the old sinking clams pool game the kids had when they were younger and said "I'll take this, it might be bit of fun diving for them" and put it in my own hand luggage- with no warning he yelled I couldn't take it, how stupid and immature I was etc. I said I'd be carrying it and it wouldn't be a problem but he then had an absolute shouting, swearing rage in front of the DC and sulked for the next hour. That really isn't normal is it? My DD stuck up for me but he got worse so no one mentioned it again, he didn't apologise and we carried on as normal once he was out of the fuming sulk.

Starlight - interesting about the hotel with your exOH. I realise it's just an excuse- mine is buying a car within the next couple of weeks (already planned) so I suggested spending a bit less on the car or staying in a cheaper hotel- he responded that he would "stay where he liked" The day he hit DD I tried to say, yet again, that violence is horrific and asked him how he could hit his own DD pointing out how much bigger and stronger he is (he is big and tall) he responded "maybe I should be shorter".

It actually helps writing these things down in black and white, it makes me realise that however charming and thoughtful he is when he wants to be, his behaviour is so so horrendous. I don't know how he isn't a broken man now, now he's told the GP and spoken to Respect (advice line) and presumably developed some self-awareness from this. His family don't know yet though mine do. That would really upset him I think. He seems to hold down a very senior job, where most people he works with do what he asks without question. When the GP asked if he was violent in other situations, he said "no, because other people show me respect".

I'm actually beginning to feel much more sane and in control. The DD's seem happy and we're doing lots of nice things in the half term. I'm dreading Friday night though.

I've still not told the police- does anyone know what they would do with DD (Sixth form age) would they make her give a statement? I just don't want this half term week, where she is getting a chance to recover and see friends, becoming traumatic by having to relive her Dad's violence to her with police officers.

Jux I have done today!

There is nothing normal about your EX OH, nothing.

He should have been locked up years ago.

I actually feel sick reading this; instead of wasting your time trying to work out a psycho, concentrate on a happier future, and safer one for you and your children. You also need counselling to establish boundaries with future men; he's not even a man, he's a slimy little coward who preys on small children, vile, vile, vile.

Please do report it to the police. Yes it will be difficult for Dd but it will also shape her beliefs about how you should respond to things like this. Atm she has learned from you that when someone you love physically attacks you you should respond by trying to make them feel better.

Stop allowing her to text him too.

This is a man who has been violent to the children. He should not be having any type of unsupervised contact with them.

They will need a lot of time away from him to be able to start seeing things in a healthy way.

If you took him back what do you think he would do to dc3 who he tried to force you to abort and never wanted when it is their turn for the violence?

No, he will not change. Absolutely certainly he will never change if he is in a relationship with you. A perpetrator program will teach him to be worse as others have said - they are not effective in reforming abusers. One day if he takes responsibility for himself and he works very hard he may be able to be different with a different partner but this is highly unlikely and having treated you and the DC so badly he will ALWAYS be a threat to you and the DC, always.

Social services will become involved if you take him back. The children will at the very least be put on the at risk register and at the worst they will be removed from your care.

When the GP asked if he was violent in other situations, he said "no, because other people show me respect

So that ^^ is his justification for his behaviour.

He chooses to treat you and your children appallingly. I want to say I cannot believe he has said that, but sadly it's common.

Just remember this is not your fault. You do not cause his behaviour .

What worries me about taking abusive men back is that each time you do it, you raise the stakes and make it that much harder to ever end it again.

You feel you've both put the work in, said and done all the right things and you really want it to work. Maybe you've told others too, and feel they're silently judging you for taking him back.

All of which makes it so much harder to throw him out again. And he will take you less seriously every time.

And you have this all wrong. He doesn't need self awareness. He knows exactly what he is doing and exactly all of the things he has done.

He believes he is entitled to do it.

He has even told you and the GP that he is entitled to do it because 'other people show me respect'.

He is confident enough to tell someone in a position of authority that this is what he believes.

There is no hope for this man and you are clutching at straws with the 12-18 months thing. Few people are violent weekly. One single incident of violence is enough to end a relationship - this man has been beating you and your children for almost 2 decades.

No, he is not going to change.

You must report him to the police if you want to be able to access the best protection for you and the DC and you must stop trying to fix him, stop talking to him and make a plan to be totally separated ASAP.

Good point above.

He has attacked you and your three children, is that not enough OP.

You say you have failed them, make them proud and protect them, he hits them when you are not there anyway so how would you know.

It's a hellish way of living and no need, you got him out, make sure he stays away, and any visits with the children must be supervised.

Just cos he's sick in the head doesn't make you his saviour.

OP, please please understand I speak as a survivor of an abusive DGF. Your children are about to learn an important lesson from you. Either that growing up in a house of violence is something their Mother thinks is OK and therefore they are not worth being saved from it or that they are so worth being saved from that their Mother is the bravest woman they know. Your DC's self worth for the entirety of their lives will be based on what you decide now. Believing you are worthless to the people who were supposed to keep you safe is the hardest thing you can imagine. Please do not let him back and explain to your DC why.

I have NC. I have an almost identical story to you OP except DH hasn't hit the DCs. He's been emotionally abusive to them I would say. I have been strangled, slapped, pushed, pinched, had my arm twisted, been jumped on, on and off for 15 years. It also happens once every 12/18 months. It's a dark cloud over my life that never goes away, not even when times are good.....and he kills my love for him every time, he's also a liar. I didn't realise how much of a liar until a few years ago when I found injectable steroids in our garage, he lied and lied about where he got them and who's they were, he promised he wouldn't do it again but we have just moved house and I found more. The violence wasn't through that though....he grew up around it. He has a very professional job, I have no idea what he was thinking.

He ended up with breast lumps and erectile dysfunction, our sex life is dead, he blames stress but I know the truth. If anything I hate being lied to more than anything else. I have no fucking idea how I ended up here!

You have made the first move, don't go back on it now.

anecdotally is there any difference in outcome between men who beat their wives/girlfriends/ children every week and the intermittent batterers like my OH?

No - there is no difference because the key is not the use of physical violence but the control.

If you think of violence and abuse as a long line which has emotional abuse at one end and murder at the other, abusers will go as far down that line as they need to to get the control and power to which they feel they are entitled. If he achieves control with a look or a sulk or a sharp word then there is no need to travel further as 'mission accomplished'. If however you resist his control then he needs to travel further down that line - this helps to explain why leaving is very dangerous as you are 'defying' his control.

I am also a specialist in domestic violence murders (yeah - I'm a laugh a minute!) and in about half of these murders there is no recorded history of physical violence but there is always always a history of control.

You might find this model useful which shows how physical abuse is only one part of the tactics abuses use.

I think you would also benefit from the freedom program..You can do it online or through Womens aid..I did it at a childrens centre..I realised a lot of my Ex's behaviour was abusive that I had ignored

Please follow all the great advice you're had on this thread .

Yes. Your husband could change, but it will take years of hard work on his part . He can only do this while he's not living with you or the children .

It's not your job to work out why he's like this, or to arrange accommodation for him . It's your job to keep yourself and your children safe .

Go to women's aid and do the freedom programme
Go to the police and report.most forces have a DV unit
Go to the lawyer and make arrangements to legally separate

If your husband truly is a changed man, he will understand completely why you are doing this . He will cooperate with all the plans for seperation and will continue financial support for you and the children . He will admit his actions to the police and plead guilty to all his crimes, so you and the children don't have to give evidence . He will enrol on a programme to help him change his attitudes and behaviour . He will agree to live apart for as long as you need . He will admit his actions to your friends and family .

That's how you will be able to tell if he has changed .

Not a chance. Once an abuser always an abuser- remember it's usually deeply rooted.
I'd leave the jerk in a second. (been there, got out in time).

Sometimes a person who is physically abusive can change for the better imo but I doubt this would ever be the case with the situation you've described, sorry.

It is nearly 3 weeks since he attacked DD and left the house after I told him to. I asked him not to contact us until the end of half-term, which he stuck to. He e-mailed me tonight to tell me he's meeting up with DS tomorrow (he's away at Uni) for dinner and a film. DS did not know about what's happened as I had planned to tell him face to face and apologise for not doing something much sooner once the girls were back at school and I could travel alone but I told him this evening on the phone. It feels like OH is carrying on as normal as still no one really knows except my Mum, one close friend, the GP. His Mum, brother, friends, work etc don't know.
He has now said "I will get on a (perpetrator) programme as soon as one is available to me". Are there any private ones you can pay for or does anyone know of any DVPPs which don't have a four month waiting list?

I feel quite sick and very upset as it seems as if OH is just carrying on as normal with DS. I'm feeling very confused about everything at the moment. He can charm anyone, including DS it seems, and I feel like the mad woman in the attic at the moment.
I plan to report his violence towards me, DS and the latest victim DD to the police at the end of next week but not before as DD has some critical A level coursework next week and I don't want to disrupt everything for her. It will be 3.5 weeks since the attack, I hope there isn't a time limit.

I've had a letter from MASH/ Children's Services saying they won't be taking things any further.
It feels like a bad dream, or a figment of my imagination, like I'm the only one who knows or cares about this.

What sort of a person gets physical with a pregnant woman and their child? Would he do this to a big scary muscly man? I think not. He is a coward and I highly doubt he could change.

Sorry I posted before reading the whole thread.

Wow! I'm increasingly angry the more of your posts I read.

Forget the perpetrators programming its a red herring. Plus at some point enough is enough!

I'm also a child of dv. My father physically threatened my mother to get her to go out with him, its an 'amusing family anecdote' (yea fucking hilarious! )

He was abusive in every way you can imagine and still is verbally to my mother and extremely controlling.

I left at 18 to escape. I've very little patience with the financial reason for staying with someone like this (my mothers favourite excuse). A freezing bedsit and a handful of pasta for tea were preferable to living with my father.

My memories of my childhood are all coloured by my mother constantly tiptoeing on egg shells even in public (because he would save punishment for later). Him constantly belittling her. Every birthday every Christmas every celebration being fraught with tension. I was even terrified of telling him my exam results in case they weren't good enough.

My mother got the majority of the physical violence but we'd hear and see the results of his violence and I and my sister got the emotional and verbal abuse too and the fear of him turning on us. He also molested me and tbh reading the part of your post about your husband bursting into your dd's room worries me. He hit me once. I told him he ever even raised a hand to me again I'd kill him in his sleep and I meant it.

I'm now mid 40's, my mother is still with him. He's physically ill and so incapable of physical violence but still throws things at her. And of course the verbal and emotional abuse continues.

My ex (among other things) shoved me while pregnant and was very controlling. I don't trust many people at all and I certainly trust very few men.

My relationship with my mother is virtually non-existent. Because of his abuse and her denial I have never left my daughter with my mother, I don't trust her to babysit her own granddaughter.

How are you going to feel if your children can't trust you with your grandchildren because you keep taking this dangerous man back into your home? If your children become victims or abusers themselves? If your children decide to go NC with you because of this man? I've been NC with my father for 10 years. I had to because every time I even thought of him anywhere near my dd I felt physically sick and would have a panic attack. I barely speak to my mother. She has denied and minimised throughout including the molestation.

You have as pp have said been given very good advice here.

Take it and use it.

As for your daughter giving a statement to the police. I'd wager that's a lot less traumatic than the threat of (not even the actuality of) more abuse from your husband.

I wish you and your children strength, wisdom and as much support as you need IRL to get through this.

Not reporting this to the police is showing your children that the law is insignificant with regards to domestic violence, almost that being whacked around by a partner and abused emotionally is par for the course.

What the actual fuck. You need to report this now, the wheels of justice turn very slowly. In addition if you take your husband back then you will most definitely have a safeguarding issue on your hands and I would fervently hope you would lose your children. They have been damaged enough.

You have a gilt-edged chance to do the right thing. Do so.

The perpetrators programme is a smoke screen that he expects you to not recognise. Part of his charm offensive. Do not let him back. Stay strong OP. Put this relationship in your past as soon as possible. He does not love you more than he loves the feeling of controlling you.