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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Is there hope- can an abusive husband change?

98 replies

ShouldIstayorgonow · 25/10/2015 09:30

I've NC'd for this and have never posted about my OH before but just don't know what to do for the best. My OH was kind when we met 25 years ago but looking back there were a few warning signs early on. We met at
uni and he did used to make the odd undermining comment about my abilities when I struggled with writing up my PhD but back then then I was confident and pretty opinionated on occasions.
The first violence was when I was around 5 months pregnant with DC1 a few years later. We argued at the bottom of the stairs, I grabbed his glasses from his face (no idea why) and he pushed me really hard and sent me flying backwards. He was really sorry and vowed it wouldn't happen again. At first we were "equal" in our jobs but when Dc2 came along we moved countries for a couple of years and I didn't have a work permit but enjoyed being at home with the DC.
Life was mainly good though I could be stubborn about my point of view sometimes and so he would occasionally (every 12-18 months) be violent. This was usually pushing me over and kicking me, grabbing me by the throat or pushing me down stairs.i had bruises but nothing more and told no one.

To everyone else we seemed like the perfect family and I convinced myself that the bad times were few and far between. We decided to try for DC3 (yes, stupid I know) but soon after I found a breast lump which had to be investigated then removed so we put that on hold for 3 months (all was fine). We then agreed to stop contraception and I fell pregnant straight away. He bought me flowers the day I told him but then became sulky over the next week and said he didn't want to delay having more independence by another 2 years (DC2 was 2 at the time). He wore me down over the next few weeks trying to get me to agrre to an abortion, I refused and cried a lot which annoyed him. He finally told me he had made an appointment for me to have a termination (the country we were in at the time allowed this to happen and would do the consent and abortion at the same time). He drove me to the clinic and I broke down in tears in the car park and refused to go in. His response was to get a vasectomy 2 weeks later and be uninterested in the rest of my pregnancy. He is now sorry and regrets his actions as far as Dc3 is concerned but has never seen how terribly he behaved towards me.

We returned to the UK near my parents and I worked part-time. OH got another job so we moved to the other end of the country a few years ago. He works away for a few days every week and i worked part-time until a couple of years ago when I was finding juggling everything (we live far from a town, or any family) too much. I would love to work again but don't think I'll get a good reference from my last company at the last few months I know I missed deadlines etc. as I was finding it hard. I've completely lost my confidence and know I need to get braver.
He still blocks my exit from rooms, pushes occasionally but hasn't been really violent to me for about 5 years. He interrupts everyone constantly, says our opinions are ridiculous and shuts down conversations when he feels like it. He can also be funny but is very unpredictable and often has underlying anger, glaring, slamming doors if anyone upsets him, which is several times over the weekend usually.

Sorry this is so long. I've come to the part which is very hard to write as I know I've failed my DC through my weakness. Once my eldest was 10 he upset OH about something and came running down to me. OH had hit him so hard his lip was bleeding. Since then he has hit Dc1 every 12-18 months, never with me around, usually upstairs. DC has now left for college and 2 weeks ago he started on DD1 instead. She had told him to go away when he went into her room to complain about something. He said it was self-defence but DC3 and I had to stop him going back in for more. He was white with rage and screamed and swore at us that it was nothing to do with us but then went outside. It seems he's transferred his violence from me to the DC.

Finally, too latei know, I told him to leave the house (he was due to travel with work a couple of days later anyway). He reluctantly went, saying we couldn't afford a hotel, that he needed me to collect some furniture we'd bought etc.
This was 2 weeks ago and since then I have told him to enrol in a domestic violence prgramme (but there's a 4 month waiting list) he's read the booklet on the respect website and has been saying how sorry he is etc. He says he's been crying himself to sleep etc but has been pushing and pushing to come back.
The Dc who suffered at his hands 2 weeks ago has swapped texts with him and wants to let him come back as he is trying to change.
We saw the GP together (I gave him an ultimatum) who was hopeless , only suggesting counselling and it was the Respect helpline who gave us details of a programme. Social services were informed but decided that they trust me to safeguard the DC , particularly as they are older.

I want to know whether someone like this can change?

He says he can see how bad his behaviour has been and wants to have an equal relationship with us all. He says "of course they would be safe with me back" but how can I trust him?
If he could be a decent kind man I would try again as the children have only 1 father and I would be worried how he would be with them if we split permanently. He's currently way for a third weel but I know he'll be pushing to come back next weekend.

Does anyone have any positive stories where men have turned things around successfully?

OP posts:
Namechanger2015 · 25/10/2015 10:29

My ExH was violent and verbally abusive, after I left him he claimed to have seen the light, and was doing lots of reading and understanding of his behaviour.

He wouldn't do a perpetrators course because it clashed with his working hours Hmm but assured me he was finally understanding himself. I was so, so relieved as I had left with 3 DC aged 7 and under.

It lasted about 3 months, up to the point where he reluctantly agreed that I needed a holiday without him. I went abroad and stayed with my best friend for a week, whilst he sent me abusive texts.

He was towing the line whilst I behaved, but the second I was showing any signs of controlling my own life, he went back to being abusive.

He will never change, very, very few men do.

It's worth calling up the course organisers and having a chat with them - I did this a few times and they emphasised that the DV course would not 'fix' him, it was more so a tool that he could use if and when he wanted to fix himself.

starlight2007 · 25/10/2015 10:37

I let my abusive EX back after he got a police caution for strangling me...He considered himself a victim as he spent an afternoon in the cells.

To be honest it was worse..

I ended up in a refuge.. I was told by a HV when I asked a similar question to you. He will do the minimum to get back together then quickly revert to his normal.. I don't know as I really believed it at the time.. I do now I am completely free and saw his actions when I refused to have him back.

I would say this is not about you now this is about your children ..All 3.. Your oldest might be at Uni but will not want to come home to risk of been harmed. What when DD goes as your going to him move onto DC 3.

SS are not involved at the moment as they believe you will protect them.. If you don't you could loose them.

goddessofsmallthings · 25/10/2015 10:39

Or use it if and when he wanted to convince some unsuspecting woman that he was a reformed character, Namechanger. Fortunately, you didn't fall for it, but it's highly likely that some other poor woman will or already has.

Paperblank · 25/10/2015 10:42

You say in your OP that you need to get braver. Absolutely no question about that. This "man" has physically and mentally abused you and your children for years.

You cannot allow him to further affect their lives. They have been subjected to his violence which is bad enough and in addition have seen far more than you think in respect of his behaviour towards you.

I cannot imagine what makes you think that he was acting in self defence against your daughter - it took two of you to restrain him!!

LTB. Now.

You and your children do not deserve to live in fear of this absolute bastard any longer.

ShouldIstayorgonow · 25/10/2015 10:51

OH texted DD to say how sorry he was. As far as I know he has never apologised to DS about his violence. DS is away at Uni and I've not told him what is happening yet but will need to very soon and try and apologise.
This is the first time I have ever talked about it, I have now told the GP, Womens Aid and my mother. My mum was shocked as he always seems the perfect father in company. She is very supportive but comes from a generation who thinks we should try and work at it together. I don't have close friends locally and my closest friend has her own serious problems at the moment. Thank you for your advice. I think I know deep down there is no going back now but hoped there might be a few positive experiences.
The Dc are in critical years at school and I have no money, job, etc so I'll use this week to try and work out how to do this. I think he'll run out of patience next weekend and turn up anyway if I don't let him come back so I need to work out what to do.

OP posts:
Paperblank · 25/10/2015 11:06

You've taken the first step and told people. For me that was the hardest part.

I told my mum everything, I didn't want to - I wanted to protect her - but once I started talking I couldn't stop. She also thought we could work it out, but I was adamant that we were beyond that and I wasn't prepared to face one more argument, one more punch.

Definitely use this week to set the wheels in motion, keep posting on here for advice or even a hand to hold.

Could you perhaps speak to the police about your concerns about next weekend?

Leaving isn't easy, but you will find yourself again and in a few years time your life will be immeasurably better.

goddessofsmallthings · 25/10/2015 11:11

The first thing you need to do is report him to the police for his assault on dd1 two weeks ago and catalogue his assaults on you and dc1 but before you do this, you need to sit down with her and tell her how very wrong you have been to countenance his violence against yourself and your dc and that you are now determined to keep them safe because you know that, no matter what claims, he will NEVER change.

Reporting him will enable you to obtain two emergency injunctions, namely an occupation order and a non-molestation order, which will enable you to keep him out of your home and away from yourself and the dc when you are out and about. A police report will also serve to make you eligible for legal aid in divorce proceedings.

It's possible that you can obtain these orders without a police report, but you will need to make contact with your local Women's Aid branch and ask them to recommend a solicitor who specialises in divorce and family law and who has specific expertise in cases of dv.
www.womensaid.org.uk

rumred · 25/10/2015 11:13

Ive worked in front line child protection for over 20 years and your post made me gasp. The bit about him assaulting your son. Get some counselling, talk to friends and family and get this vile excuse for a human out of your children's lives. He doesn't deserve a chance. And guilt tripping the kids is beyond disgusting.

The police can protect you. Use the service

starlight2007 · 25/10/2015 11:16

I also advise an urgent Appointment with a sols.. Get things sorted while have time on your hand..

I also agree Womens aid were really helpful for me..They organised some couselling/play thereapy ( he was only young) in school time.

Rozalia · 25/10/2015 11:16

^^What goddess says. I just caught up with the thread and was about to say involve the police for his assault on your daughter.

goddess puts it much better than me. This is very triggering for me. Sorry I can't be more help.

tribpot · 25/10/2015 11:18

Did you grow up in a house with domestic violence? That's the only reason I can imagine your mother having for giving you such poor advice. 'Working at it' with someone who hits your kids is colluding in child abuse.

lavent · 25/10/2015 11:40

OP you need RL support with all of this. Women's Aid will help you with the police and getting injunctions etc.
I can understand your mothers reaction as I know how clever abusers can be in how they present themselves to the outside world. Most people think my ex wouldn't hurt a fly!

badtime · 25/10/2015 11:59

As far as I know he has never apologised to DS about his violence.

That tells me quite a lot, OP. He never apologised because he wasn't thrown out of the house. Everything he is doing is just because he was thrown out, not because he has just realised he was wrong.

He apologised because he was thrown out, he says he has looked into DV perpetrator courses because he was thrown out. He is crying himself to sleep because he was thrown out. It is self pity, not regret.

Do you think he would still be interested in the courses, or sad and apologetic about what he has done if he was back home? Do you think he didn't realise beating his wife and children was wrong before this? I don't.

My dad used to beat me because he hated being married to my mum and wanted to beat her, but beating your children was much more acceptable than beating your wife. I used to beg my mother to leave him. Living in that environment fucked me up quite badly, and I don't really have much of a relationship with either my abusive cunt father or my enabling cunt mother. If my parents had split up earlier, I think it may have meant that I would have a better relationship with them.

Namechanger2015 · 25/10/2015 13:58

If you are thinking about leaving him, please also consider having a quick look through his finance paperwork if you can. Particularly payslips, as this will come in useful in applying for Child Maintenance.

You can find out more about the CMA here: www.gov.uk/child-maintenance/overview

And you can call them here:
Telephone: 0345 713 3133
Textphone: 0345 713 8924
Monday to Friday, 8am to 8pm
Saturdays, 9am to 5pm

They are definitely worth a call even just to know your options.

I called them a few weeks back and the lady was lovely even though I don't have a CMA claim going through, and I was ringing her with lots of hypothetical questions instead.

She also gave me numbers for people who could provide emotional support, housing advice, etc.

Child Maintenance Payments can't be backdated from when you leave, they can only be backdated to the time you made your application. So it's worth calling them as soon as you are out.

They only need basic details like your H's name and DOB, but if you can provide NI numbers, and salary or employer's details it will all help. You will get some finance from this.

This calculator will give you a rough guide of how much you could get: www.gov.uk/calculate-your-child-maintenance

Namechanger2015 · 25/10/2015 13:59

You can also ask your DC school to help. I contacted school and they have arranged in-school counselling for my DD to help her during our split.

You can do this.

popalot · 25/10/2015 14:06

No, they can't because they don't think what they are doing is wrong. He might say he does to appease you, but in his mind he has no problems with it. My ex left saying it was me who caused it all and went on to do same things to next woman/child.

dinkywinky · 25/10/2015 21:46

What would you do if he pushed you or one of your children and you or one of them fell and cracked your head on something and it was lights out. I know of an incident like this that happened to somebody close. Truly heartbreaking. Any violence even a push can be deadly.
Worth the risk? I don't think so.
By the way I don't think these types change and I've known a few. Life is calling for you to change yourself for the better. Listen and make the changes you need to make for yourself and your precious children. X

WorzelsCornyBrows · 25/10/2015 22:15

If your DS, who has been beaten every 12-18 months of his life since he was a small boy, thinks you should take your DH back, that's the reason you shouldn't. Your DS has been raised in an environment where physical violence is normal and accepted by you all. Your DH may have been the person who beat him, but your actions have told him from a young age that it's ok for him to get hit. You NEED to change that message and change it now. How will you feel if your DS grows into your DH because that is what he's learned?

It's time to take a stand, put on your big girl pants and keep your DH out. Your children are already conditioned to minimise violence, please change this so that their future relationships don't end up being like yours.

BeanGirls · 26/10/2015 10:44

No no no its not worth the risk, for your children's sake.

Jux · 26/10/2015 16:46

Please grab at all the help that is available to you, WA, CAB, police and so on. Get your dd's abuse documented at the very least.

You will need to contact the police at some point, as he is almost certainly going to turn up and kick up a fuss if you don't capitulate.

Get a solicitor so that you have a chance of getting a non-mol for you now.

He is already a violent man. When his whim is crossed he will likely become more so.

GingerIvy · 26/10/2015 19:04

SS are not involved at the moment as they believe you will protect them.. If you don't you could loose them.

This. SS will be all over this if you move him back into the house. And the first thing they will assume is that you are no longer interested in protecting your children because you have moved a man with a history of assaulting your children back into the home. And they would be right.

ShouldIstayorgonow · 27/10/2015 08:41

I have made an appointment to see a solicitor and opened a bank account of my own to try and get some money together as I think OH will stop giving me access to money once he realises I'm not letting him back (everything else is either joint or in his name). He is away with work as far as I know and has agreed not to contact us until he is back on Friday. I know he will put pressure on to return home, he has already said we can't afford for him to stay in hotels. Do you think it would be unreasonable of me to contact his mother and ask if he can stay there next week? I know he would just say he couldn't go there if I asked him.
I've been turning everything over and over in my head about why he has become like this when he was kind and loving and fun at the start. Some years ago my DD stayed with MIL by herself as a treat for a couple of days. She was 7 at the time, and later confided to me that OH's mother had hit her hard when she touched an ornament, my own Mum would never have done that. It makes me wonder whether she was violent. OH doesn't talk about his childhood, but his Mum is domineering, his Dad passive and when we visit we all basically sit in silence whilst she holds court.
DD (the one he hit) is missing him on the one hand but relieved on the other. She also feels guilty which is just awful, we've talked about how it is in no way her fault and how sorry I am it's taken me this long to stop believing his promises and act. I haven't told the police yet, but keep wondering if I should. I don't want to traumatise Dd any more by making her give a statement and whatever else would be involved, I know she would be reluctant as she already told him she wants to support him trying to change etc. when he texted her to say sorry.

OP posts:
ShebaShimmyShake · 27/10/2015 09:02

I've never seen them stop doing it. I've seen them whinge and whine and blame everyone but themselves, but never stop doing it.

Some violent men reform. Some people marry into the Royal Family or win the lottery jackpot. I wouldn't advise relying on either of those happening either.

How many more chances are you going to give him? How many more times is he going to hit you or your kids?

I wish my mother had left when my abusive father was slapping, kicking and punching me.

DoreenLethal · 27/10/2015 09:06

I haven't told the police yet, but keep wondering if I should. I don't want to traumatise Dd any more by making her give a statement and whatever else would be involved, I know she would be reluctant as she already told him she wants to support him trying to change etc. when he texted her to say sorry.

Yes you should report it to the police, to show your daughter that you are 100% against violence.
No you should not bring your daughter up to think that she can change men.

Do it before he puts you in a body bag.

Phoenix0x0 · 27/10/2015 09:07

I would transfer some money from the joint account over to your own account. You say you haven't worked much but you have supported him in his career....by transferring some money it may tide you over for a while.

You need to protect your children. Who cares if he has apologised...he has only done this because he was asked to leave. You are the parent and you make the decisions.

So what if he can't afford a hotel! Also, why are you phoning his mother? It's up to him to organise his own accomdation.

I advise that you contact women's aid, the nspcc. I would keep any abusive texts/emails as this may become useful later.

As an aside. He has been physically/emotionally abusive and yes your children from a young age have been exposed to that...they would have heard your screams, his shouting etc. It is now time put your children's own mental and emotional well being first.