Am I flogging a dead horse?

[pomegranatepie]

My marriage is not a fun place at the moment. We argue alot- were going to therapy together but he says it isn't helping so I am now going alone. We have a 1 year old baby and I don't work. I do all the housework, all the cooking, all the childcare (he sleeps in a separate room when he is not on nights so he can sleep- I am still breastfeeding through the night and co sleeping) I meal plan, do all the grocery shopping and pack him a pack lunch for his work. He works 4 days a week and will occasionally at the weekend change the odd nappy and give our DS a bath- he plays with him lots however and they have a lot of fun together.

If I ever ask him for help- or to watch the baby he gets cross and tells me that I am sucking the energy out of him. He criticises me for being useless with money but never helps with the shopping or budgeting. He is irritable and grumpy alot. Our rows end up in him withdrawing and giving me the silent treatment and me in tears begging him to talk to me (I feel so humiliated- it feels like a punishment but he says it's just protecting himself emotionally) We haven"t had sex since last November.

He threatens to leave in anger alot- but then calms down and tells me he loves me and that he is sorry. He walked out on me the day after my C section telling me that he wasn't happy and wanted to leave- but stayed after a pep talk from my family- it was the most incredibly difficult day of my life.

He tries- but is so unused to feeling needed and to dealing with emotions (lived alone in a solitary job for years)

I love him but I am not happy. My parents split when I was our DS's age and I don"t want to repeat history but I am at a loss at how to fix this.

It sounds to me like this was always a crap relationship TBH. Was the baby planned? A mistake a lot of women unfortunately make is feeling they have to stay with a man who impregnated them when, without the pregnancy, they would have cheerfully dumped him long ago. Also, the fact that he wanted to leave before and was pressured by your family into remaining with you is not a good sign. He's either spineless (a strong, decent man would have maintained that the relationship was not working, that he would be a good father to the child but would not remain in the marriage as it was making you both miserable) or he thinks that his position as the reluctant partner in the marriage means he can be as obnoxious as he likes because you are so desperate not to be single that you will put up with awful behaviour just to 'keep' him.

Yes, you are flogging a dead horse. Put the flogger down, negotiate a fair separation and let him go.

sgb nails it

This baby was much wanted and much planned for us both. I am not desperate not to be single- he is the father of my child and having seen both my parents have multiple failed marriages I REALLY want to make this work- I would love it if my son had a stable loving family with both of his parents together- but we are in crises and I am just trying to figure out whether there is anything we can do about it or whether we need to admit and accept that it just isn't going to work.

You can only make it work if he wants to make it work. He has a lot of issues and you are bending over backwards while it seems like he is doing the exact opposite.

Do you honestly think he will try and change? Do you think he can?It doesn't look promising OP though I hope for your sake it is.

Consider setting boundaries, deciding what he will do to make it work and knowing when to say stop when he will break them. Also consider if a stale loving family can be had even if you are separated, some people get it better and work better when apart.

I know. And he says he wants to make it work and wants to change- but I don't know if he can. I hope we can be good united parents whatever happens. I have seen how shit he is in a crises however and I find it difficult imagining that changing.

What do his actions say? He can give a good talk but it's action is more important.

I won't stay with him if things stay the same- no matter how much I wan't this marriage to work- just trying to figure out how much longer we give it- things are no better now than they were a year ago so it seems ridiculous to keep on hoping indefinitely. I just want to be clear that I make decisions that are best for our son- as things are right now I know this marriage is not a good place for him.

Well his actions so far involve toast and tea and a promise to take more of the grunt work on- so its mainly words at this stage!

He will disappoint you. If he really wanted to make this work, he would have been sure to pull his weight by now.

My expectations aren't very high to be honest AnyFucker- this very much feels like a last chance- and too little too late. I think we are heading towards accepting that we just don't fit- we have expectations of each other that aren't realistic (or reasonable) and he has issues that won't be resolved at all easily. Its just sad and painful and the uncertainty of our futures is a little scary.

So the four 15 hour shifts job only started a fortnight ago? Or is he leaving that job in favour of something else?

Given he left an established career whereas you were already running one here, it seems an odd decision to have you stay at home whilst he went out to work. Did you discuss alternatives to this?

At least you have the self-awareness to know you have form for flogging dead horses, that should certainly help when discussing this in therapy.

Are you actually sure that he wants to go to counselling to discuss where you both need to make adjustments, or because he wants a forum to tell you what you're doing wrong?

I would leave. Your child is so young and you could find a great Step Dad for him. Not to replace his Dad. But he younger they are, the easier it is (been thru it). The fact you haven't had sex for 11 months speaks volumes. I think I would die!

Yes the 15 hour shifts job started a fortnight ago. Until then he was scratching a living working any old job he could do. I didn't have an established career here- we both worked away on the road (it's where we met) and it wasn't a job I could have continued with a small child (weeks and weeks away at a time - 18 hour days) We both wanted me to be able to stay at home with the baby while he is tiny so were prepared to be skint for a few years- I saved as much as I could before I got pregnant and had Maternity allowance for the first 9 months. Am hoping to start a business cooking from home soon.

I just think he found the move and lifestyle change harder than he expected to. We live in a very rural area where most people are skint and work is hard to find and he has been really lucky to be able to find this job. Maybe this will help- his self esteem and stress levels weren't great which can't have been helping.

He suggested counselling again- and when we went in the past had been pretty honest and open. I thought we were getting somewhere but he had a massive wobble after a difficult session and said it was confusing him too much.

We we we. We this, we that...

BUT IT ISN'T WE. There's no we. YOU are doing ALL the work.

Yes, codependency. Do get along to CODA if you can. You wrote a huge para above all about him. Yet you are suffering and make no mention of yourself - it's ALL about him!

They fuck you up your mum and your dad

Everything is about him, his wants and his needs, his issues.

How you can help him, how you can fix the relationship, how you can break yourself to make him.

All about him taking and you giving.

You could try counselling Pom but when do you call it quits? If he has another wobble will that be it? Will you stop flogging yourself and this relationship? Or will you be posting here again about him?

Ok- I think I have got so used to ignoring my needs it's hard to tell what they are anymore.

Interestingly my therapist asked me to look at my needs for my next session- so obviously fairly clear that this is an issue. The "sucking the energy out of me" comments really hit me- I felt as though I was the difficult and needy one in our relationship. Maybe I was- I struggled with depression and feelings of isolation when I was pregnant- no car at the time and in an area I hadn't lived in for about 20 years and was incredibly lonely. He had to drive me anywhere I needed to go- and this became a bit of an issue. Since having my son and passing my driving test this has completely changed - am independent and have a good support network of friends.

I am going to do some thinking.

Keep seeing your therapist, it sounds like she has your health and happiness in mind whereas your husband puts his over your own.

Thinking is good. Look at how your husband acts and expects you to act.

Keep your friends and family close.

Have been doing a lot of thinking. I genuinely don't believe that he has been abusing me - I think some of his behaviours are borderline for sure- and totally unacceptable and if they continue I will leave. I plan to work out what my needs and expectations are from my marriage and be really clear with him what they are and if he doesn't feel able to meet them I will leave. I plan to sit down and divide responsibilities fairly between us and if he isn't able to keep it up I will leave. I will ask him to be clear about what his expectations are from me- and if I think they are unreasonable I will leave. The next time he threatens to leave me and our son I will show him the door.

What would be a reasonable timescale to review all of this? Some of this I can't see happening overnight- we are both falling into old drama patterns at the moment (me as much as him- I can be pretty fiery around certain subjects)

And thank you everyone who has commented- I do feel stronger and clearer- still not sure whether to keep on flogging or not but I can definitely see that it can't go on like this for the sake of my son (and me) no matter what happens,

Timescale? Today. It's not rocket science what you're asking. A child could do it. Oh, wait....

I do fear, however, that you're swayed by a bit of toast and he is practised at putting on the emotional thumbscrews. Poor him who can't quite get it

I don't mean a timescale as to when to start making changes- I'm just trying to set myself a date where if it hasn't improved and he hasn't changed I call it quits. The toast didn't sway me- but the sentiment behind it and the fact that he suggested coming back to therapy with me has a little I suppose.

Have tried speaking to friends and family about how I feel- most advice has been for me to avoid triggering his anger and to give him space and hope things improve. Everyone really likes him- he is genuinely likeable 99% of the time. A few have advised not rushing any decisions- to get to a place where I feel 100% sure that this is what I want to avoid the whole getting back together confusion.

It's so fucking difficult to make such a momentous decision that will affect all three of us- I care about him- I was very much in love with him at one point. My therapist says maybe I can get those feelings back some day.

most advice has been for me to avoid triggering his anger and to give him space and hope things improve

SHIT advice. Are these the people who scored you in codependency?

Everyone really likes him- he is genuinely likeable 99% of the time.

But they don't have to live with him, and you do. My hideously abusive ex was adored across the board - largely bcs he knew full well how to present as adorable, while privately training me, his wife, to serve him. Charm is deceptive as the good book says.

I'm not saying your h is 'hideously abusive' but I am saying he is not as innocent as you think.

Facing my own codependency was a huge step for me in recognising how I had contributed to the abusive dynamic of my marriage (also to a foreigner as it happens). Recognising, owning, validating, protecting your own needs will go a long way to clarifying your confusion - and guilt?

Btw I can't remember (and can't see) if you have signed up to do the Freedom Programme yet? Please do make it a priority.

As for timescale - you were swayed by a bit of toast ie what (you thought) it represented. I can't see you can revolutionise your expectations in a week, it's going to be a process - on your part, not his. Yy he will drag his heels, up the 'helplessness' and 'adorable innocence', while you're longing for what could be, what has crumbled before your eyes; going the extra 100 miles to make it work (while he sits back, wondering when you're finally going to get it that your job is to facilitate him and his needs). It's a big thing to take.

Plug away at eg CODA, Freedom Programme and the ocean liner will begin to turn. In a crucial way it's irrelevant what he does or doesn't do - see how your focus is still entirely on him? You need to get your focus on you, and that's going to take a while.

Trained not scored

"Have tried speaking to friends and family about how I feel- most advice has been for me to avoid triggering his anger and to give him space and hope things improve".

That counsel indeed was harmful and has simply further fuelled your own co-dependency.

I would read "Co-dependent No More" written by Melodie Beattie.

Also many abusive men are quite plausible to those in the outside world so people can be taken in by their outward charm. It is only behind closed doors that their true nature emerges.