Was this a step too far from dh?

[Someonesgotmyname]

Just in brief really as I'm just a bit confused about what happened the other evening during a particularly nasty row. It happened after we had gone to bed. We had a big row which resulted in dh getting out of bed, shouting at me that I was being unreasonable . I was laying down and the light was off. Next thing I know he has whacked a pillow hard into my face as I lay there in the dark. I was so shocked I got up and called him all sorts of expletives asking wtf did he think he was doing. He then ridiculed me and made light of it saying it was only a pillow etc. And did I want to call police to say I'd been assaulted!!!! What do you all think I should make of this? As I say it was a nasty row but too much?

I don't think you should feel guilty about bringing it up at all, OP! How are you feeling? Do you have a gut instinct?

It needed saying though. It's an issue in your relationship, the argueing, issues (real or imagined) with your dsd, and what happened the other night. Ignoring it doesn't make it go away, as he demonstrated by bringing up the incident of years ago. It just festers under the surface. For your relationship to be healthy you need to discuss this stuff, want and decide to act differently under similar stressers, and then be able to move on from it.

When you 'lunged' at him, how did that play out? Did you make contact? And did you apologise? And how did he react at the time?

I don't think that a historic event from years ago can be used to justify a recent violent act on his part just because he 'brushed it off', and I don't think it necessarily demonstrates double standards unless you were equally as blase about your physical response to him and tried to make light of it or convince him that it wasn't serious.

If he had a problem with how you dealt with things in the past, then the time to bring that up was then, not as a justification for his behaviour now - he cannot accept that he is 'overreacting' yet still find a way to blame you for it - either your approach has been damaging enough to warrant a discussion and some attempt at resolution or he needs to take responsibility for his behaviour. Two wrongs don't make a right, and past misdemeanours cannot be used as an excuse for violence whenever he loses control. Otherwise he has a green light to do whatever he wants and blame it on a time when he claims to have felt hard done-by yet conveniently never mentioned before.

Anyway he's now gone out as he had planned and I'm sat here wishing I'd never brought it up!

So he hit you in the face and now you feel bad about bringing it up? That doesn't sound good.

So he's not sorry. He justifies his actions by bringing up a time when you behaved violently towards him, in a "you did it so I can" kind of way. He turned the argument back to the original theme, so he didn't have to talk about his actions. Now he's gone out leaving you wishing you hadn't raised it at all.

None of this is good. None of this is dealing with the issue.

You bringing it up, to discuss it, to deal with things, to find a way to communicate, that was all to move things forwards. He just wants you to forget about it and move on.

You behaved badly in the past. How did you react afterwards? Were you sorry? Did you change your behaviour? Since it hasn't happened again (and I never condone any violence by either sex), did you realise you had overstepped a boundary and resolve never to do it again? I'm just wondering how you reacted when things were reversed.

Well it was so long ago, I think we just kind of laughed it off as ridiculous to be honest. I remember him finding it funny that i lost my shit like that!! It all seems so unhealthy when I see it written down! It has not been a recurring thing, the nasty arguments and physical violence. It's not that kind of relationship. I guess we both have flash points but its not something that happens regularly. I'm talking once or twice in 10 years. He has never been violent before now. If I'm honest I have a hard time thinking if his behaviour as violent, just nasty and below the belt. I think there is a difference.

It's fine that you see it as nasty and overstepping boundaries. How do you feel about him seeing it as fine?

Yes, I do have a gut feeling that I have been an arse and so has he!

That didn't make much sense! Sorry!

How do you feel about him seeing his behaviour as fine, whilst you feel it was nasty?

He doesn't think it's fine exactly. He did say he wishes our arguments didn't sometimes get so nasty. He's not proud of his behaviour but at the same time he feels that being thought of as a wife beater is a tad ott and unjustified!

That's just using dramatic language to minimise though, isn't it?

You don't have to be a "wife beater" to be someone who has done something that upset your wife. Nobody is trying to label him. He needs to accept that his actions were crossing a boundary that he shouldn't have crossed.

If he can't see that, then he isn't doing himself any favours.

Well, I don't. I think its the start of how he means to go on.

I don't agree that he is on the path to becoming a violent man though. I would be extremely surprised as he has always deplored this behaviour in other men. Sometimes I think that people's own experiences with dv can make them assume the worst. I do know couples who have explosive rows, it doesn't necessarily mean its dv. I know everyone thinks I'm minimising this. I'm not! I'm just trying to be level headed and sensible.

It's up to you to decide what you do and don't accept. If you're ok with 'explosive rows' and nasty behaviour then there's nothing to deal with, you just carry on until the next row and the next nasty incident. You also accept that your children are learning that screaming and nasty behaviour are normal in adult relationships.

So what did you want from this thread?

He has crossed a boundary. He expressed his anger physically, at you.

At the very least he needs to understand what he did, that it was very wrong, that it was an act of aggression, and that the argument and its context is irrelevant: the real conversation is now about his actions.

He needs to understand this and apologise fully. Everything else stops; all other disagreements are moot until this is fully acknowledged.

having always 'deplored this behaviour in other men' means nothing op. People often say they find certain behavioir deplorable, hiding the fact they do it themselves. That isnt aomething you should focus on. What he says tells you nothing. Words are meaningless. What he does is what is important. What he did was hit you in the face in the dark, then blame you by saying you lunges at him years ago, then minimise what he had done, showing you he thinks there is nothing wrong with it. Next he might push you, then shove, then push you down... Women dont find themselves in domestic violence situations with a man who was wonderful one day then abusive the next. The build up to that slowly, making you doubt your own reactions. Which you are already doing, which makes me wonder what his behaviour towards you is actually like now. You said it has only happened twice in ten years, then said your H said he wiseh uour arguments didnt turn nasty. Well that sounds like more than twice in ten years to me.

Bottom line, even without this latest incident of another row with him saying his behaviour is fine, this does not sound like a healthy relationship.

He's not proud of his behaviour but at the same time he feels that being thought of as a wife beater is a tad ott and unjustified!

But he's not sorry either - you said yourself that he hasn't apologised and that he laughed at you when you expressed your outrage at the time. I think it is his response that has made people concerned about his attitude rather than what he did as such. For most people, losing control like that and lashing out physically would be something that scared them and would make them want to address the issues to ensure that that kind of situation didn't escalate to such an extent again. His approach has shown no signs of any remorse or even contrition at what he did, and instead he is minimising the incident itself, blaming you and accusing you of being 'just as bad' rather than being open to a conversation about how to make sure you two communicate more effectively.
Shutting down a conversation about how you felt and how to avoid this kind of thing blowing up again doesn't suggest that he 'deplores' this behaviour - it suggests that he doesn't want to take responsibility for it, which is why it sounds like it could be the thin end of the wedge.

I'm not sure what I wanted from this thread tbh. I think just some balanced views and advice.
Of course we've had more than a couple of nasty rows in 10 years Cailin, but not violent ones.
The bottom line for me is that I don't feel remotely afraid of dh. I just feel pissed off at the fucking outrageous cheek of him whacking me with a pillow. I just simply don't buy the common opinion on here that repeated violence from him is inevitable. I have children in the house, believe me, I would be out like shot if i was scared.

I never said the violence would escalate - I don't think that's necessarily the case. You seem to think nasty rows are normal - do you?

Well normal for many people, but not what most people would aspire to!
I think most couples would rather argue in a constructive not destructive way, but those pesky emotions just get in the way. Dh and I have more measured and constructive debates about other issues regularly without resulting in below the belt tactics. Just the occasional huge row like this latest one. We do usually recognise if we've been arseholes and apologise for it.

Not this time though. This time, it really escalated and he hit you. And he has no intention of apologising.

Of course we've had more than a couple of nasty rows in 10 years Cailin, but not violent ones.

I've been with my husband for more than 15 years, and we have never had what I would call a 'nasty row' - certainly not one which has come anywhere close to violence. There is no 'of course' about the idea of a disagreement getting out of hand to this extent, and the fact that you sound as though you think it is inevitable suggests that you are, at least to some extent, inured to the negative way that the two of you interact with one another.

But he didn't hit me exactly did he? He whacked a soft pillow at me! I'm really not trying to minimise it but let's call it what is was! For all I know, if any of you had been a fly on the wall you may well think I'm being a drama queen to! I posted originally to get some perspective not to be made to feel like a battered wife. I do appreciate the advice I really do, but I'm not sure its needed in my case.

That's fine, like I said, it's up to you what you accept. You accept that your partner can and will be aggressive and nasty and not apologise.

BTW you seem to have a very low opinion of DV victims.

What on earth makes you think that? Because I've said I'm not one?