How long should it take to "get" the whole fatherhood thing!?

[RPopz]

I'm really fucking tired of being the "default parent" all the time and I feel like it's breaking my marriage.

DS is 9mo - first and only child. I don't doubt for a second that DH loves him and he isn't a horrible father... But he just doesn't seem to get that life doesn't revolve around him and what he wants anymore! His life is basically unchanged apart from cuddling and bathing a baby for an hour after work each night. He'll dress him and do token nappy changes on his days off. Everything else I have to tell/ ask him to do. He has an unending list of hobbies and interests which he hasn't let slip at all since DS was born, basically spends all his evenings doing these, or on his phone messaging his mates. He goes out at least once a week - but I have to ask him to "babysit" if I want to go anywhere or do anything. He's on his phone CONSTANTLY (I'm not even joking, he even takes it in the shower with him). He hardly bothers to make conversation with me. Doesn't seem to get that his days off work are my days "off" from looking after the baby, and expects to spend the day catching up on tv/ Xbox. Happy to just dump DS in a playpen or whatever and ignore him. Never organises things for us to do as a family - it's always down to me to think of and organise. He does little round the house without being nagged. Its just his hobbies hobbies HOBBIES all the time. I feel like they're more important to him than I (we) are. Spends most of his money on them too...

I'm not the perfect wife. Not by any stretch. But I just can't stand him anymore. Just got this constant low level irritation towards him all the time. Can't stand him touching me (can't be arsed to pay attention to me - why should he get to grope me!?). Constantly shrugging him off - which granted probably doesn't make him feel like being more attentive towards me... We're basically just existing in the same house. From my pov anyway.

Just don't know what to do really. Talked to him about it a couple of times. Things usually improve for a day or so and then go back to normal. Kind of want him to leave.

Help?

Not sure what your point is Lulu - other than to make me beyond jealous! My H is more interested in his phone than a afternoon of luxuriant lovemaking - even if such a thing were a possibility anymore....

Sorry, I didn't finish my pointless post before!
What I was going to say (before I got distracted) was that it started like that and it's ending like that.
H has not been any different in handling one child or 3.
The problem I've found is that he has walked into a marriage and tried to keep his life the same as when he was single and pick up a few bonuses on the way.
I feel like I'm leaving a marriage that never existed.
He's not given the kids any quality time until now and he probably never will.
Yes, babies change your life and they change relationships.
But when someone refuses to acknowledge that their own life has changed they are essentially 'denying' their existence.

So OP, I'm guessing you've told him and discussed it all?
You can only lay your cards out on the table so many times.
Pick a last time. If no change, it will never change.

God, reading your OP again, he sounds just like my STBx.

Ps, do U love him?
If you don't, its time to go. Him 'irritating' you sounds like how I felt when I'd just given up on the who thing.

.... Errm and that sounds like waffling garbage too
Sorry OP!

I think you're right about the selfishness, Bertie, but I'm not sure OP really has been leaving him to get on with it often enough. Rereading OP's posts, there are two main problems: 1) her OH doesn't pay his 9-month old son much attention, and 2) he doesn't pay his wife much attention. In short, he's hoping he can amble along much as before, and those hopes are currently largely being fulfilled.

It's pretty clear that, morally, he deserves a massive kick up the arse. This could wake him up & make him get his act together, but I think that's unlikely. I'd bet that, since he does change the odd nappy and gets him dressed sometimes, he's already inwardly congratulating himself that he's dealing pretty well with this parenting lark. We're talking about someone who can't see what's in front of his face, i.e. a pissed-off wife & mother doing 95% of the work, so I think it's much more likely he'd react negatively to any rage-motivated assault on his lack of involvement. I believe loads of men have no idea how to enjoy young children, and literally need to be shown. And this extra responsibility usually falls on mothers, just when they're hoping he'll step up and shape up.

I don't think there's a way round this; it's just one of life's many lumps of unfairness, and won't change until boys are raised in a radically different way. Women get the job of civilizing men, just like Vashta relates. I think her strategies are brilliant and she is a ruddy heroine. It must be a complete bastard, having practically another child to manage in the shape of a physically but not emotionally fully grown man. But I think kids themselves work a kind of magic, as they grow. So, OP, I'd say divide that labour and just leave the bugger to get on with it. If his own child doesn't change him, then maybe there's no hope for him.

As for him not paying his own wife any attention, there are no excuses. Bloody rude. But, somehow, the two issues need to be kept distinct. The aim is to have a loving husband who looks after his child. Great if they go together but even a neglectful husband should realise that, whatever his relationship with their mother, neglecting your own children is the worst sort of scumminess.

Apologies OP as derail, oneeyedbloke wish you could talk to my sbxh he's just blown his only chance of seeing dd this year for 3rd year running by taking absolutely no interest, barely even speaking to her and dropping a bomb on her when she was already very stressed (and without giving me any warning too).

I think oneeyedbloke sounds like someone who wasn't perfect but was willing to accept that and do something about it. His ideas re making op's husband know what parenting really is are good but I'm not convinced they'll make a difference to op's husband. I also agree with what he's saying about raising boys better, sadly that's likely down to mums again!

RPopz No, we never have an afternoon in bed anymore, entertaining and looking after DS is our afternoons now. That was my point, life really changes and it takes lots of time to adapt. DH has adapted better than I have. You sound like you have adapted better than your DH. I am the one here who has selfish days- not many but some- and feels resentful. It is like everything has gone on stop and my world has narrowed.

I had this with my DH for a while...he just used to sit playing his games constantly! I mean, DD could be whinging because she couldn't reach a toy or something, and I would have to stop whatever I was doing (washing bottles on that particular occasion) and tell him to get it for her or move her closer to it! This went on for a few weeks, until I'd had enough. Got some great advice from MNetters! I stopped doing all the jobs around the house for a couple of days, and focussed all of my time on DD - didn't ask DH to do anything for her. When he realised his clothes weren't getting washed and his dinner wasn't getting cooked, he said "oh I'll look after DD, so you can get some other stuff done"....and it stopped. Guess he would rather spend time with his daughter than have to wash his own clothes...and personally, I'm fine with that. As long as I'm not expected to act like a fucking octopus, juggling the baby, a pile of dirty laundry, and a half-cooked dinner all at once.

I've kind of been limited to how much I can just "leave him to it" with breastfeeding and a baby who has never accepted a bottle. It's easier now he has solids and drinks from a cup obviously, but I don't want to have to bugger off all the time to get DH to step up... I want to spend time as a family! I go out to meet friends or the gym or something every other week and they'll be fine. But if I'm in the house he does basically nothing.

Definitely hit the nail on the head though oneeyed - he's not doing much fathering but he is doing even less husbanding. Not sure which I am more upset about tbh.

Can't offer much in way of advice in afraid - just read your OP and you're describing my dh :(

It's bloody frustrating and I feel for you

In fact having thought about it - I can offer a bit as I've had some success. I sat mine down and explained to him how my life has completely changed and I don't get to do anything I used used to do for hobbies and fun (going out with friends, I sold my horse which was my passion and exercise) but his life as relatively unchanged. He was quite receptive and said he understood and that it must be hard.

I said I was resentful that I was doing all night feeds because of bf and he was getting loads of sleep every night and that his life was relatively unchanged.

He said to me that there's more he can do with baby but that I don't trust him to do it and I need to back off and let him find his own way of doing things with our DS as otherwise he feels like he's doing it wrong so gives up trying.

Since then I've got a bit better at handing DS to him and walking away and actually he's doing better.

I think it's hard when you suffer from anxiety/depression to trust someone with the thing most precious to you ie your son, even if the person is their father. And if you have any amount of OCD or control issues then even harder.

I haven't had time yet to RTFT (but will do). Just wanted to send some support - it's hard enough being a new mum without mental health issues on top of it.

Also mine is the same in never organising any family trips or anything - it's always down to me and I'm usually too shattered to do it so we sit in the house

Wanted to add - He is behaving badly and needs to step up as a dad. I dont think you should think you're responsible for the way he's behaving by being particular about how your son is cared for. He is a dad now and needs to behave accordingly. It came as massive shock to my dh when I informed him I dont understand why he expects to be able to sleep as having a newborn and sleep don't go hand in hand!!!

Thank you La xx

OP I agree with this: 'I dont think you should think you're responsible for the way he's behaving'.

Also, as you have identified he is being a crap husband as well as a crap father at the moment.

The question is, what do you do about it?

Clearly there are options. One is to leave. Drastic, but it may come to that.

It doesn't sound, yet, whether you have decided if that is the right path for you and your son.

So meantime, you may as well try a few things to bring about the changes you'd like to see. In some ways the two are connected. try some stuff to bring about the change you would like to see in him. If none of that works, you have your answer.

So what might you do to get to the bottom of this?

1. have a serious talk. List out what you do vs what he does, do the chart tracking his time spent at home vs yours, all that stuff.

And / or

1. just hand over responsibility for you DS regularly over the next few weeks and months, and leave him to work it out.

I hear what you are saying about wanting to spend quality family time together, IMO the route to that is getting him first competent and then enjoying his time with DS on his own. Quality family time will start looking very attractive to him after that.
The period you are in, of it being hard for you to leave DS for longer periods, or wanting to, will pass. But my advice is if you wait until then, the habits between you and your DH of who does what will be more ingrained and thus harder to break. Or, even if he does get more involved, he will never have seen just how hard it is to care for a baby, and appreciate what you are doing and have been doing since DS was born.

Probably you'll do 1 and 2 before you can be in any position to decide if he really is just a crap husband after all and to kick him out.

If I were you I'd reflect on the kind of person he is to decide which way round I approached this. My DH and I have had 'the talk' multiple times in the two years since DD was born. It has been most effective when it has come shortly after him looking after DD solo for a considerable chunk of time (ie a least over a meal or nap time). For others it might be the other way around.

Finally, I know you wish you didn't have to strategise like this. And I know other posters will say you shouldn't have to, that it is making excuses for him etc. All true. However, as someone else said up thread, we live in a world where many boys and men are not socialised at all to consider how their lives will change when they have a baby, or what they should be doing about it. Sounds like you've got one of those. So you either take a fundamentalist view and leave now, or have a serious crack at socialising him first, and then decide whether that is enough of an improvement for you.

As I say up thread, OP mine did change and we are an equal partnership now. So it can happen and I hope it does for you. But brace yourself, if he does, for endless fawning congratulations on how wonderful he is. For doing what you do, except no one thinks you are some sort of latter day saint. It's super annoying, specially because it doesn't recognise the work it takes from you, the mental and emotional labour that you put into getting him to recognise where why and how he should step the fuck up. And not one person will ever tell your DP he's lucky that you are prepared to do childcare and'let' you work but it's like the standard follow up to finding out you are out of the house without your pre-schoolers.

When ppl tell me how fabulous my partner is for doing his fair share, I say he his great compawd to other husbands. But compared to other wives he's middling.

Totally get what you say re not really having had much chance to leave him to it, OP. Otherwise, what Dougal said!!

I don't suppose men & women will ever see things the same re children. I remember when I was beginning to really enjoy looking after the boys, they were about 4 & 2, looking after them one very rainy day when I was off & DW was going to work. She said, "I've no idea what you're going to find to do with them today." Well, I took them out in the car and we went railway-hunting, ie finding places where we could see the trains go by (they were train-mad in those days). Once we'd found somewhere, I got us all lunch from a cafe & we sat & made up stories about the trains. They LOVED it (so did I). Got back home, DW returns, "What did you do?" DS: "We had an in-the-car picnic." DW was incredulous, she was like, how boring is that? And OK there was no exercise in it. But it was MY way of keeping them occupied. The in-the-car picnic became a sort of family institution for rainy days after that. So despite most men's emotional retardation compared to most women, things can and do work out. Hope they can for you, OP.

Oneeyedbloke - I'd love it if my dh did that, that sounds like fun!