is it infidelity?

[SweetPotato1]

I'm a man, and I'm here for a woman's prospective if that's ok.

Both in our 30s, 3 kids. Not married but together 10+years.

A couple of years back DP and her best friend's DH became close with up to 20 secretive texts a day. They didn't meet up but it may have gone that way had I not stepped in after a couple of weeks. Basically I told her her BF wouldn't have been too impressed if she found out and she conceded it was 'inappropriate' and put an end to it. She never apologised or asked how I felt and I didn't tell her until 6 months later- still no apology.

She works full time but is also involved in a volunteering group, where she meets lots of other men (which I'm fine with). She was all about one particular guy, (we'll call him Tom) whom she made reference to on a regular basis, and the two of them did have late night after group study sessions together. They definitely bonded as he divulged personal marriage stuff to her; I was fine with this as she was up front about it. Then all of a sudden Tom no longer gets a mention.

The last year has been good for us as a couple, but over the past two weeks something didn't add up and I discovered she secretly arranged to met 'Dave' from group. I had never heard of Dave. She's on about 20 texts a day to Dave. Dave is married with kids. It's doesn't look like anything has happened on a sexual level, but there was maybe 3 references to a hug they shared, and light hearted stuff referencing his 'big strong arms', and they've arranged to meet again tonight.

Should I be worried? If nothing sexual happens have I the right to feel betrayed? or is this just a woman needing an emotional outlet? Is this not infidelity? She has also spoke of being lonely etc and he empthasises. We both work full time and she has her finger in a number of other pies, she's neither bored nor lonely, and I'll meet anyone's emotional needs so long as I don't withdraw into myself as a result of her clandestine activities- current status!

I feel I have to let things progress. If I torpedo these developments the cloud of distrust will remain and I'll be back here again in a year or so. If I let the situation evolve, well at least I'll know what she's capable of and how little respect she has for me, but the corollary of that is a broken home (and there's no way I'm walking out).

And whatever did happen with Tom?

If anyone had anyone thoughts or suggestions I'd love to hear them, were
you this woman?

thanks.

It's easy for a person conducting an EA to turn it around, to say you lack respect & trust and are unavailable - all of the excuses they use to justify investing all of their energy into a new relationship.
They've already made a decision to some extent.
If they are still invested in the relationship and thought their partner was suffering/ that wrong ... well they'd react with concern, plans to work through stuff.

A reaction alone is very telling for someone's priority.

Thanks everyone for the replies.

She arrived back at midnight and stayed in the kitchen. I called down at 12:30am and she'd the head in the books (preparing for the presentation she'd previously claimed she was calling to Rita to work on). It was a glimmer of hope for me as our two suspects Dave and Tom are proficient on the subject matter, and I thought maybe she's all about her career.. short lived glimmer.. observed sand on boots reveals Dave took her, on his motorbike for a late evening stroll on beach at least 30 miles away.

Dave was also in our house last week while I worked nights and our kids slept upstairs. I could smell the burnt scented candle as soon as I came in and a text from that date reveals she left the front door on the latch while she showered.. she never showers at night.

But maybe.. 95% of the conversation was about presentation subject matter, I just don't know, I wasn't there, and maybe the scented candle was to mask the smell of the late dinner she'd cooked for the kids.. which is why I need solid proof.

God this sucks. I know it appears my 'deal breaker' standards are far too high (or is it low!) but this is the cost of being a daily constant in my kids lives and maybe it is my job as their Dad to suck it up so they don't have the trauma of a broken home- and absentee Dad, cos it's nearly always the Dad that gets sidelined- sorry for the pity fest :(

Maybe if I continue to turn a blind eye and let love blossom, DP and Dave might ride off into the sunset!

On a more serious note, I'm scared of jeopardizing life with kids, ruining my parents relationship with DP (I'm sure they prefer her!) and other interconnected relationships, good friends will have to choose sides.. not to mention the huge financial cost of providing two homes, legal actions she may embark upon.. my name sullied etc etc

Maybe Tom's DW found out about what was going on and called him on it, maybe he decided it wasn't worth risking his marriage and family over, maybe he got bored. Any of those reasons for what happened to Tom could also apply to your DW. I think more prescient is what's happening with Dave.

You say:
"she's neither bored nor lonely, and I'll meet anyone's emotional needs so long as I don't withdraw into myself as a result of her clandestine activities- current status!"
Personally, I don't see how any wife and mother of 3 DCs who works full time could possibly have the time to be bored, unless she's extricated herself from those roles (How old are your DCs? I'm assuming not adult!). The loneliness, though, does appear to be a matter of opinion. You're in a vicious circle of withdrawing from her because she's giving another man the time and attention she should be giving her husband, which gives her more reason to need the other guy's time and attention. I would suggest telling her that you know what's going on and how it's making you feel. Tell her what you've told us - that you would like to be the one meeting her emotional needs. I don't think that's the impression she has of you - and by backing off and allowing her to get on with her emotional affair you are compounding that impression.

Sorry, OP, our posts crossed. However, I still stand by what I posted, despite it not answering your latest post.

Your virtually handing her over to him on a plate.
Haven't you asked her about what happened to Tom as that was all she used to talk about?

Big strong arms and feeling lonely? She's asking for an affair. Door on the latch as I'm showering?
Wake up!

I ride pillion, it can be quite an intimate thing, that's not including the walk along the beach 30 miles away. What's the presentation about? Seashells and dead crabs?

It already IS an EA.

Thanks guys,
The last two posts kind of make it sound like my inaction is partly to blame. That by giving her space to make this mistake that I'm in some way responsible for her actions. She's 34 years old! Not a love struck kid and she knows exactly what she's doing.
The chat that ye suggest I have with her has already been had, two years ago after her 100 text in a week to her BFs DH (who've since split up).

And I asked what happened with Tom.. she fobbed it off (but I note they're not even FB friends anymore.

She's done this with three men that you know of.
She's actively seeking out the thrill, danger and excitement. The wanting to be in their thoughts, maybe even competing against their partners for the shit and giggles. Not a star crossed love affair, she's doing the same thing over and over. You are being cuckold.

You don't want to upset your family and your parents relationship with her so what do you do? Just wait until Dave has enough and there's a couple of months break before the next one? You're going to have to have it out with her.

She isn't going to change. She'll have affair after affair until she finds someone she leaves you for. I'm sorry to be so blunt. With a person like this you cannot change them, no matter how much you give to them.

What about you having custody of the kids?

She sent a text saying she'd left the door on the latch whilst she showered?

She's asking for him to join her, please wake up OP!

My DH split with his ex (due to her affair), we have a great relationship, truly best friends and his kids are fantastic and spend 5 days a week at our home.

This could be the best thing that ever happened, you aren't happy now.

I wonder what it would take for you ?

Coming home from work to find her riding the latest geezer in your bed ?

Bloody hell, get some self respect

Ok, here we go. It's man to man talk time. Get some fucking self-respect! I'm starting to doubt that this is real, you're so passive. Fucking man up and see what's happening here.

last two posters- don't confuse self control with a lack of self respect. A plan is what's required here. What would you have me do? A screaming match in front of the kids doesn't sound like much of a strategy. Her actions will tear our family apart but the decision to do this is ultimately mine, so you'll forgive me if I don't make any rash decisions.

Oh, and yeah, it's fair to say she fucked him. For anyone who's being following, her latest references to 'sand in places there shouldn't be', 'her mouth being otherwise engaged', 'most perfect night of lives' etc. And they had a rug down, isn't that cosy?

AnyFucker, you asked what it would take? to catch her in the act? Well, the reason I felt I needed this is because of DPs history, previous PND, regular depression (though medication working well) , work place injury/trauma, chronic pain, stress of legal case against employer, being moved from pillar to post in current employment as she can't resume regular work. Attends regular physio and counselling (don't think 100% necessary but they're free and strenghtens legal case).. possible painkiller overuse, mild alcohol abuse.... So she could attempt to let the tears flow and explain emotional affair away by the above mitigating factors, making me the bollocks if I ended it with a 'vulnerable' woman; but there's no excuse to take it sexual, that's about enjoying herself (and clearly she has been).

It was her attempt to change employment/career that she started her group volunteering, and me being the supportive partner bit my lip as she spent more time in other men's company.

Obviously I'm going to confront her, but timing is everything and in the meantime I'll continue to maintain my composure even if my head is in turmoil.

My biggest concern is my kids.. Custody? On what grounds? In our peoples republic unmarried Dads are legal strangers to their kids. The mother is deemed Primary carer (for payable benefits) and guardian.. not that I couldn't amend the guardianship aspect, but the notion of an unmarried Dad getting custody over an otherwise fit Mother- no chance.

Rent- whoever gets to stay in the home will have their rent double, whoever moves out will have their rent quadruple (or move to another town) as our present rent is at 2006 levels. Current house is the only home kids have lived in, they've great friends here, and their school is 10mins walk. Kids are 9,5 and 4.

If chivalry dictates that the man leaves, doesn't that become the narrative for the kids? That Dad left. Dad broke up the home. How do I get her out?

In our peoples republic unmarried Dads are legal strangers to their kids.

No, no they are really not.

Have you been hanging around the Reddit red pill forums?

You clearly don't want to leave your cheating partner, so I'm not sure what you want from this thread.

I'm afraid you have to ask her to leave. File for divorce on the grounds of her adultery. Whatever her reason, or so called mitigating circumstances. The fact is that she is conducting sexual, romantic relationships outside of the marriage.

Don't be scared. You could still stay and keep the kids. It's not unheard of for the woman to leave. You have very good, reasonable grounds.

File for divorce on the grounds of her adultery

He can't actually do that unless there's proof or admission of PiV sex (which is not to say there hasn't been, but the evidence isn't yet there), but her behaviour certainly qualifies as unreasonable, which is equally good grounds to divorce.

Jeez, stop shouting at the guy for not promptly leaving on the spot. He's clearly wondering what the next steps should be, and better to plan ahead slowly than leap straight into action.

Having said that OP I think you've probably got almost everything you can from this thread - some encouragement to get out. Only a legal team can advise you of the likely outcome in your situation next.

But yes to this: "I'm starting to doubt this is real" - this is possibly true of many many threads on Mumsnet

So, she's out with Dave for 3 hours .....while you sit on Mumsnet....I really think she needs you to be a bit more manly tbh.....when she gets in I think you need to take charge.

More manly? Man up? Grow a pair?

FGS! Seriously, no offence to any posters above but I find this stuff as irritating as "women should be in the kitchen".

There are more ways than one of "being a man".

Yes, those are rather sexist comments.

I think OP is being made a mug of, but I would say the exact same thing to a woman. There is nothing "manly" or "not manly" about this situation. In actual fact, men do (potentially) have more to lose if a relationship with children ends. That says more about his partner than about him though. If he LTB's and she punishes him by being difficult about seeing the kids, that makes her an even bigger piece of shit than she is already proving herself to be.

When I suspected my exH of cheating (he was) I had to put my natural hysteria to one side and consider my children. I waited until the best and least disruptive time to confront and remove him.
I agree with the OP, he should and must consider his children. That is having balls. Then he thinks what he wants, what suits him and the children then he takes steps to achieve that.

Ive not much advice but i agree, looking out for your children is your number 1 here but please don't just put up with her (i dont think you are/will) Can see just biding your time.

Thanks for the support lads.. I've too much to loose by going to war with her that I do need to bide my time.. I will end it but it needs to be a dispassionate and fact based conversation. I'll need to say calm and I won't be able to do that till I'm over the shock and the adrenaline leaves my body.
She saw him again, still zero sign of guilt by either of them, the zero thought to the families (other than 'any hassle when you got in late'?).
Fyi, I'm in shock cos I didn't think she had it in her to take it physical- and I believed she loved me.

Oh, and I wasn't offended by the 'sexist' comments, they came from the right place.

I think I was referred to as being sexist! I'm not at all, but I do think she'd like to see you be a bit more territorial maybe? If I was going out with a guy on his bike, and my husband let me go happily, I'd think he didn't care too much. So, a few words from a female perspective (mid 40's) : a woman generally likes to be in a settled relationship. Of course, they are capable of cheating, but it tends to be when her emotional and physical needs are not being met by her partner. That's not to say you've done anything wrong, we are all busy and with 3 kids, other stuff takes over. But, I think you are stuck between a rock and a hard place here, because, you don't want to confront her and have her maybe kick you out, but, if you stand by when she sees Dave more and more, then she may start to become emotionally attached to him (especially if they are sleeping together), and that road leads to the same conclusion of losing her, because, she will leave you for him, if she falls head over heels in love with him. The money may not be an issue either - maybe he is well off? The longer it goes on, the more emotionally invested in him she will get. So, I think, you do need to nip this in the bud, before she starts to get real feelings for him. I also think that you then need to step up and fill this void. Romance her, listen to her, take her out etc. And step up the physical side as well. I personally could not stay with a cheat, but, I totally get that you may need to work thru it, in order to stay with your kids.

What a load of victim-blaming guff