NC with sister, mum turning on me

[slithytove]

I would really appreciate some advice.

I had a situation with my sister which lead me to taking a step back from any contact with her until she had sorted herself out. Have a thread on it will try and link.

Anyway I made it clear that when her faulty thinking changed, I would be ready and waiting to talk to her, but until then, I didn't want to hear from her.

Since then, she has been quite verbally abusive (over messages and voicemails) several times, and it's been very upsetting.

Throughout all of this, my mum has been upset with me for not seeing or speaking to my sister, and for not allowing her to see my kids.

Today my sister did it again, and my mum told me how much it was upsetting HER that her kids weren't getting along, and that family should be in touch no matter what, and I should make it up with my sister.

I'm really upset by this. I've explained to my mum that my sisters abuse really triggers my anxiety and thoughts of self harm, but she doesn't care.

I've been in counselling for a few months now and really want to be allowed to protect myself by taking a step back if I need to. I don't understand why my mum firstly doesn't understand what damage my sister is doing, but also why she is so against me? Any insights or advice would be good.

I would suggest you are the path of least resistance?
If your sister is pig headed your mom will try you first, are you always the peace maker? If you say no, is that unusual? So mom needs to reavaluate and needs a new plan... which she wasnt expecting?

Not really been in this situation before. I'm certainly not a peace maker.

But mum does have a history of tolerating abusive behaviours / throwing me under the bus / being selfish.

I don't know how to get through to her.

I would imagine you were the punching bag for your sister. Now that you refuse she is next in line.

It is in her interest to keep you around. The fact she throws you under a bus could be an indicator of this.

There is also a possibility that you will force her into admitting that she is not a good mother. Her two children not talking reflects badly on her. And that could either be embarrassing or upsetting to her depending on how she sees it.

to be honest, I don't think you can get through to her. I was in a very similar situation (although it was my abusive sister who had cut me off in the end ) and my mother was like a dog with a bone. To the point that I think she prolonged the problem because she kept poking at it instead of letting my sister get over herself and me get over what happened. Every time she tried and failed to get my sister to talk to me, I felt kicked all over again. and I have no doubt that every time she nagged my sister about it, she felt all over again what had (irrationally) pissed her off initially.

I would tell your mum she is hindering not helping.

Oh yes she keeps asking what I'll do if this happens with my children.

If one of my children behaved as my sister has, I'd be appalled, but also I would step in and help!

My belief is that some of my sisters twisted thinking and subsequent behaviours are rooted in depression. If it was my child, I'd be trying to help her.

Mum would rather I caved and accepted the abuse, than address the problem. She told my husband today it was really hard for her.

Not one mention of the months of abuse I've had from my sister which have caused panic attacks and a huge stress to me.

My sister has cut me off, she told me today I was no sister and she was done with me.

I said I didn't want to hear from her until she has sorted out her thinking and saw the hurt she had caused, nothing was permanent.

Mum still puts it on me.

I screwed up today by telling her about my sisters latest tirade. She doesn't nag, but every time I say "oh sis said this I'm so upset and struggling to cope" it's "well you should be in touch this really upsets me". Never an acknowledgement of how vile sister is being. She has told me my counsellor is wrong for validating stepping away as a coping technique. That was very hard, as my counsellor has helped me a lot.

I feel like my family don't like that I am learning to stand up for myself and part of that is not tolerating nasty people in my life. Especially since I had children.

I have tried several times to write this sentence and cant find a nice way to ask so I will just go for it.

Why are you not NC with your mother?

It seems that she is just as toxic as your sister but in a less obvious way (the apple generally doesnt fall far from the tree after all...) Your contact with your mother doesnt seem to be helping you or giving you anything positive.

Mostly it's fine, its just when the concept of not seeing a family member raises its head, she loses all perspective.

I'm the issues because I'm the one willing to go NC to protect myself. She would rather ignore the issues than protect her children (has happened to me in the past).

So I keep an emotional distance where i can but don't want to go NC with my mum. I would however love to find a way to get her to understand that it's ok to protect yourself from abuse and that I don't deserve judgement for it.

Could you try saying to your mum that the decision has been made in the interests of your own well being and you are not going to discuss it anymore, every time she mentions it close down the topic. Equally don't say anything to her about your sister as this will only give her an opportunity to raise the issue again. Your mother has shown that she cannot and will not acknowledge or accept the reasons behind your decision I think you have to live with that sadly.

slithy, is this the thread you meant?
^"http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2360898-Who-is-BU-over-photos-of-kids"^

I thought it then and I still think it: your mother is as damaging to you as your sister, maybe more so because your guard is down with her. Read your other thread, particularly when you describe your mother.

You minimise her actions, say that it's all innocent mistakes she makes, she doesn't mean it. Yet you also say "My mum will kick off at this too. I will be the bad guy as I always am." 'Always am'. Those are the important words. And earlier on this thread - "But mum does have a history of tolerating abusive behaviours / throwing me under the bus / being selfish."

I wonder if the place you occupy in your birth family is a combination of 'good child' and scapegoat. The good child who, on that thread said, "Analysing it, I've always made myself totally available, been more willing to see my parents, put them up, help with doctors/dentists/cars and all that entails/mobile phones/estate agents/online shopping/and much much more. Brother and sister categorically do not." But still you're the scapegoat that gets thrown under the bus.

You talked about your mum having a blind spot where it came to sibling relations between you and the others - can you not see that you have a blind spot about her? You claim she can't possibly be doing this deliberately, she's not smart enough to be playing mind games - you give all sorts of claims that she didn't mean to hurt you. You steadfastly ignore that by her actions she chooses to hurt you regardless. And incidentally, she doesn't have to be smart to mindfuck you, it pretty much runs at the instinctive level.

"Nah me and my mum are great, she is just sensitive about my siblings, and gets upset at any damage to our sibling relationship."
Maybe she gets upset any time you look like you're not going to take any shit from your siblings, because then you're not behaving like a scapegoat, taking the beating silently, and you're not behaving like the good child keeping your siblings off her back by being their/her scapegoat.

"When my eldest died, and since, my mum made a huge deal of telling me just how hard my sister found it and how it screwed up her exams etc. I find that terribly inappropriate, as honestly I don't think anyone found it harder than me except maybe DH. She really needs to pick her audience better."
Fuck me, you have a blind spot not to despise this woman for doing that to you!

Your mother is a nasty piece of work, and the sooner you accept that, the better for you. You need to protect yourself from her .

I'd be devastated if my kids didn't get on.

Hope to goodness I wouldn't pick sides though & I'd leave them to sort it out, or not as they chose.

I do agree with others though about your mum.

You say that she is turning on you?

Doesn't that say it all?

Look, you are an adult & quite frankly can see who you want or not for whatever reason.

It's sad for herthat herkids don't get on, but she should be respecting that & hoping that you can sort it out, not bullying you into doing as she says becaus "it's family".

Re your comment:-

"But mum does have a history of tolerating abusive behaviours / throwing me under the bus / being selfish.

I don't know how to get through to her"

Your mother is still doing this; she is as toxic as your sister is. That's her MO. People from dysfunctional families end up playing roles; your sister is favoured and you are the scapegoat for all their inherent ills.

You will never get through to your mother; she is not built that way. It is NOT your fault she is the way she is. Let that thought go.

Never talk about counselling in any fashion to this lot ever again.

It is in your mother's own interests to keep the wheels of this dysfunction going.

This sort of dysfunction will not happen with your own children because you have enough insight to know this is wrong and you would never treat your children like this.

I would also suggest you post on the "well we took you to Stately Homes" thread as you may receive more counsel there as well.

Raise your boundaries higher re your mother; if you really cannot countenance the thought of no contact I would look at low contact instead.

Lightshouse is a useful resource as well; you may well want to read their website.

I suggest going to the police and get try to get a restraining order.

Emotional abuse is not on and she can be barred from contacting you.

Wow, this is hard to read.

WhereYou, thank you for the effort of finding and referencing my other thread :) that is sadly the right one.

You are all probably right about my mum, however I don't want to go NC. Maybe just step back, I don't know. Thing is, if I did, it would feed into her and my sisters opinion that I am so volatile and irrational and controlling. Plus my children really do adore her.

I just don't know what to do for the best. Ideally she would support me in doing whatever to protect my mental health, but also support my sister in getting the help she needed.

Diddl I would be devastated too, but can you honestly say it's 'taking sides'? We are talking about a sibling suffering depression with NO action being taken, and that depression allowing said sibling to be persistently and viciously abusive. Would you really not try and help both of your children? I know I would, and I know I wouldn't make it all about me as my mum has done.

Funny, my sister told me yesterday I was making her the scapegoat for my unhappiness.

I feel like I don't know what's real any more.

Piper I am just going to block my sister from messaging me. I had done this previously but I think a new iPad update messed it up.

I have to say I was devastated that a) mum told my sister I was in counselling and b) between them they said "maybe the counsellor will talk some sense into her" and c) mum then told me essentially the counsellor was talking shit.

That's not normal is it.

Problem is I know I have so many faults and I know I essentially caused this whole situation with my sister. I just never thought it would reach these heights.

It feels like she will always find something to get at me for. Right now her boyfriends mum is very ill. I found out about 4 days ago, and mum told me they were all ignoring the situation in order to cope. I don't have her boyfriends contact details.

So yesterday's abuse was all around how I was a shit sister because I hadn't contacted them about it and I clearly didn't give a shit. Completely unsolicited.

It's just too much too take.

Your children see you as their mother being thrown under the bus and undermined by both your sister and their nan. Its not a message you at all want to be sending them. They do not adore their at all either if they see that from her. I would also think she will start undermining your children at some point as well if she is not already doing that; these people can and do choose favourites and their own golden child/scapegoat.

This dysfunctional dynamic as well started in childhood. Your sister seems to have always been more favoured.

You are not your mother so you would never have acted like this anyway. It has been in her interests as well to keep her other daughter at your throat; what you describe is not untypical of a narcissistic familial structure.

You would not have tolerated one ounce of this from any friends of yours either, family are no different. If they cannot or will not behave decently then you do not see them. You are no contact with your sister; this is about your own self preservation and showing them that you were not put here to be their emotional punchbag for all their inherent ills.

"I have to say I was devastated that a) mum told my sister I was in counselling and b) between them they said "maybe the counsellor will talk some sense into her" and c) mum then told me essentially the counsellor was talking shit.

That's not normal is it.

Problem is I know I have so many faults and I know I essentially caused this whole situation with my sister".

Your only mistake in the above here was actually telling your mum anything about you having counselling. That was a harsh lesson now hopefully learnt on your part.

No it is not normal (re your second para).

You need to raise your boundaries a lot higher now and tell your mother what she deserves to know here i.e. nothing.

You did NOT cause this whole situation with your sister either. She was looking for trouble anyway and you are their scapegoat.

Your mother and your sister are both toxic and as dysfunctional as the other; they need each other to keep the dysfunctional family set up going. You rebel rightly against that and they do not like it at all, your mother's reactions are not untypical.

Keep seeing your counsellor and never mention the subject of counselling to them ever again.

If they cannot or will not behave then block them from communicating with you. I would also advise you that if your sister has been indeed sending you abusive messages then this should be mentioned to the police as well as it is a criminal offence.

Funny. At uni 2 friends treated me badly, I ditched them.

An aunt (with mum complicit) was horrendous. I've not seen her since.

DH's parents were very badly behaved to us a few months ago, and we've not seen them and won't until they build bridges - which we want to do.

I wanted to repair things with my sister but not tolerate the abuse in the meantime.

Mum has ALWAYS made me feel like I'm the problem, because I'm the common denominator. And because going NC is the 'wrong' thing to do. But in all the above scenarios, there have been other people involved, who were happy to tolerate the nastiness. I was the only one willing to step away to protect myself. I've believed for years I was the nasty one. YEARS. It's an odd and difficult thought that maybe I'm not.

My mums and my sisters life is pretty shit atm, could all of this really be put down to an emotional punchbag?

Attila, I see you post a lot in relationships and you have helped me a few times, thank you. Can I ask how you mean it has been in her interests to keep my sister at my throat?

It's interesting because she always told me that I needed to sort things with my sister and she didn't want to hear about it. But if my sister raised it, the two of them had a good long bitching session about me.

The whole family is dysfunctional.

I have huge anxiety and self harm issues. Used to have anger issues but those have largely resolved with counselling.

Dad is an angry angry alcoholic of a man.
Brother an angry irrational depressive.
Mum and sister we have discussed.

Mum lives a life of misery with dad and regularly takes abuse off my brother.

So I must be just as bad. Very upsetting thought.
I'm trying so hard to change things though. I'm seeing my counsellor this week after a months hiatus, thank god.

"Can I ask how you mean it has been in her interests to keep my sister at my throat?"

It keeps the emphasis off her and keeps your sister dependent still on your mother; your mother has played an active role in how you relate to each other as siblings now. She has actively encouraged this. Your mother is the problem here; its certainly not you and your mother has simply used you as the scapegoat.

(This aunt you mention that you are no longer in contact with, is she one of your mother's siblings?).

I have seen similar dysfunction in my ILs family MIL will never ever accept any responsibility for her other son and they have no relationship either.

I would also think that your DHs parents will not ever be willing to build bridges; such people like to be right all the bloody time. They also refuse to apologise or to accept any responsibility for their own actions.

Re this comment:-

"But in all the above scenarios, there have been other people involved, who were happy to tolerate the nastiness. I was the only one willing to step away to protect myself. I've believed for years I was the nasty one. YEARS. It's an odd and difficult thought that maybe I'm not"

Ah, I was waiting to see the "flying monkeys" and they are indeed there in your first above sentence. Such people never act in your best interests, only theirs.

The rest of your comment starting with "I was the only one will to step away to protect myself.. is not untypical either of the thoughts expressed on the Stately Homes thread.

Keep on stepping away and protecting yourself from these toxic people, your children will also thank you for doing that.

It is NOT you, its them.

My husband's family have done this to him. Youngest sister was vile to us and his mum has decided we are unreasonable for cutting her out of our lives and ordered us to talk to her again. Never got an apology or acknowledgment that she'd done anything wrong.

So now we hardly see his mum and dad or his sister and when we do everyone pretends everything is fine. I am a seething ball of rage over it but do what my husband wants to do, as it's his family.

I agree that you shouldn't talk to your mum about your counselling. What you discuss in counselling is just for you - getting her take on it all won't help you at all.

What are the odds your mum relays all this back to your sister, with its own spin of course?

I think in these situations people like us give other people all the power without realising it. I know I have for years!

One thing I would pick up on, though, is that you are probably playing a few games of your own here, without being aware of it. Eg, by saying she has depression (in your opinion) you are making yourself into the good/concerned child, and you want your mum to agree with you (ie take sides).

I think you were on the right track with 'stepping back' but you need to step back from your mum as well, or you are just playing out the drama through her. Next time you see your mum ask politely how your sister is and then talk about something else. If your mum wants to talk about your sister just say you don't want to talk about it right now.