NC with sister, mum turning on me

[slithytove]

I would really appreciate some advice.

I had a situation with my sister which lead me to taking a step back from any contact with her until she had sorted herself out. Have a thread on it will try and link.

Anyway I made it clear that when her faulty thinking changed, I would be ready and waiting to talk to her, but until then, I didn't want to hear from her.

Since then, she has been quite verbally abusive (over messages and voicemails) several times, and it's been very upsetting.

Throughout all of this, my mum has been upset with me for not seeing or speaking to my sister, and for not allowing her to see my kids.

Today my sister did it again, and my mum told me how much it was upsetting HER that her kids weren't getting along, and that family should be in touch no matter what, and I should make it up with my sister.

I'm really upset by this. I've explained to my mum that my sisters abuse really triggers my anxiety and thoughts of self harm, but she doesn't care.

I've been in counselling for a few months now and really want to be allowed to protect myself by taking a step back if I need to. I don't understand why my mum firstly doesn't understand what damage my sister is doing, but also why she is so against me? Any insights or advice would be good.

Re your comment:-
"Dad is an angry angry alcoholic of a man.
Brother an angry irrational depressive.
Mum and sister we have discussed.

Mum lives a life of misery with dad and regularly takes abuse off my brother.

So I must be just as bad. Very upsetting thought.
I'm trying so hard to change things though. I'm seeing my counsellor this week after a months hiatus, thank god".

NO, NO and NO again; you are not just as bad. You were and remain unlucky enough to have been raised in such a dysfunctional family of origin.

It is indeed to your credit that you are having counselling; it is one way forward for you re your recovery from such toxic people. Keep at the counselling.

You can only change how you react to them, you will never be able to change their overall dysfunction. Its also in their interests to keep such dysfunction going; they get something from it.

I feel like my family don't like that I am learning to stand up for myself and part of that is not tolerating nasty people in my life. Especially since I had children.

This is very, very typical. No one likes the status quo changing and people with something to lose hate it - like your sister and mother, because they want you as you were and not a new slithy who can stand up for herself.

it's a very great deal healthier for you to be able to have a backbone though. And - for your children.

Can you simply shut your mother down if she starts on the subject of your sister by saying "you know the score, please can we change the subject" and then, if she doesn't (she wont at first) simply make your excuses and leave?

She'll absolutely hate it, but a lot of people do hate it when others start to stand up for themselves. It'll be like a storm. The backlash will be intense at first then it'll probably gradually calm down and she'll readjust with only the odd outbreak of comments.

This -is- the right thing to do. The current situation - neither you nor your sister are happy with each other at all. It isn't working. You're the one who needs to face that, and make the alterations, however much your mother hates it, for the simple reason that you're the one who is able to. You've already taken several steps.

"Diddl I would be devastated too, but can you honestly say it's 'taking sides'? "

Well it seems to me that your mum is taking sides in as much as she is saying that you should be the one to make up and allow your sister to see your children.

She can suggest that your sister seek help, but can't make her, she can suggest that you see your sister, but can't make you.

Had a quick re-read. It sounds like your mum has a shit life with her alcoholic husband etc.

She's got enough on her plate, if you ask me. Maybe all this drama with the children helps to distract her from dealing with problems closer to home.

And you will all have been affected by his drinking as well.

The aunt is my mums younger sister yes.

Mum tolerated my aunt being very unpleasant to me until that same aunt was unpleasant to their elder sister. When the elder sister cut contact, so did my mum.

Sisters depression isn't an opinion it's fact told to me by my mum. I have been told she occasionally takes medication and won't seek counselling.

It is my opinion that my sisters depression colours her outlook on life however, e.g. Her belief that I have always hated her, since the day she was born.

Dads drinking is a retirement thing not from when I was growing up. The anger however, that's nothing new.

I am totally stupid of course for even mentioning that sister had got in touch to my mum, and I wish I hadn't. I really want her acceptance that I'm doing the right thing for me, and I know I won't get it.

Lesson learned!

True diddl. Though I would take it a step further and if in mums position, suggest how out of line my sister had been, and that maybe her depression is clouding her judgement.

But I don't think my mum believes that. She doesn't even know the worst of my sisters ranting, she doesn't want to. She is happy to believe the worst of me though.

i'm sorry but you're totally deluding yourself that you can have a healthy relationship or boundaries with any of them. i know that's not what you want to hear.

i think you're also missing the point in blaming it all on your sister when the two of you have actively been raised to have this kind of relationship by your mother who profits from it.

the whole thing is deeply dysfunctional and unhealthy and you are the only person with any desire for it to change.

the reality is that you either keep going round in circles of drama and abuse with these people or you cut contact.

it's a horrible reality but it is the reality i'm afraid.

i say this as someone who avoided the reality and got hurt over and over and wasted years of my life. i have been non contact with my family for two years now.

in the end however much you think your children adore them or your just your mum etc are these the relationships and ways of behaving and treating people (including you) that you want role modelled to your children as normal and acceptable? because no matter what you say keeping on letting your children see this behaviour and be exposed to it IS telling them that it is ok. fully realising that helped me to finally make the full cut. as did realising that actually i didn't want to spend the rest of my life justifying myself to others OR myself.

"suggest how out of line my sister had been,"

But if she never finds fault with your sister (I don't know if this is the case), then why would she do this?

And of course it would also mean not blaming you...

"Problem is I know I have so many faults and I know I essentially caused this whole situation with my sister. I just never thought it would reach these heights."
We all have faults. We don't all have families drip-drip-dripping the poison into our ear that we are to blame for everything.

And you ABSOLUTELY DID NOT cause the whole situation with your sister. You have said of her "She is the youngest and is very indulged." Well, who was it who indulged her? Ooh, that would be your mother. You have both been damaged by the environment your mother created. By making you shoulder the blame all the time, she gave your sister the go-ahead to ever more outrageous behaviour against you . So funnily enough, your sister behaved ever-more outragously, because your mother essentially rewarded your sister's behaviour - telling your sister you were the volatile one etc. And what child, raised to believe that her increasingly batshit behaviour is pleasing her mother, is going to suddenly stop being batshit?

You are being punished for seeing that there is something wrong with this picture. I believe this is your mother's instinctive behaviour, she doesn't consciously think 'I'm going to punish slithy for interrupting my dramatic family soap opera and making me question whether it's my fault all three of my children are unhappy' - but just because it's not conscious and deliberate does not mean that this is not what's happening.

"my children really do adore her."
Two points to consider here:

1. They will be taking their lead from you. You have been moulded by her to adore her, you will be modelling this behaviour to your children, they love you and wish to please you (as your sister does your mother) so they have learned to 'adore' her. This is not fixed.
2. I expect they adore chocolate too. I also expect you control their intake of chocolate to ensure it doesn't affect their health. It really is the same thing.

HoneyBadger is exactly right and there is some excellent advice here

You have a number of things going on and are under a huge amount of pressure to "Return to normal" - Your sister and mother are both heavily invested in their "Normal" and will not want to make change if they are not forced to. However having said it is possible... you must be very clear it is not within your power to change someone else.
You can ask them to change - but you cannot force it.

I say this because you have placed dependence for parts of you happiness on their change - sadly you need to abandon this..your happiness is really dependent on you being you and them accepting this.

Is your sister actively seeking to improve her depression ? no she isn’t - she's making a choice not to consistently take medication and is also expecting not to have to live with the consequences of this behaviour on you. Your mother is supporting this, and failing to let you make independent decisions - this is indicative of many aspects of poor parenting and focus on self interest rather than supporting the individuation of the child. This alone is indicative of placing you at the lowest importance in the family.

It is interesting you are cutting people out of your life who are abusive towards you and showing more self interest in your behaviour gradually...I did much the same thing, gradually working up the "Food chain" until I was ready to deal with the worst offenders, I didnt even realise I was doing it until I looked back on what had gone on. And I'm not unusual - this is pretty typical apparently.

So yes you are a common thread through cutting people off. Good for you! You are growing and changing in a way that is positive for you.
I really hope when you read through some of the excellent advice here that you really see how it applies to you.

I think your mum has grown up in a toxic relationship and instead of getting help she's decided to push it on you and keep living it. Unlike yourself who has chosen to break the cycle, protect yourself and your family.

You can't change her mind or make her have a revelation. She knows how she's behaving, she just doesn't care. It suits her to keep this up and it always will.

Your sister is using the depression as an excuse to be toxic towards you. Depressed people aren't toxic and horrible and abusive unless they are already horrible and toxic people.

They will never change. You have to either change yourself as you have been or let them cast you in the roles they chose.

"I just don't know what to do for the best. Ideally she would support me in doing whatever to protect my mental health, but also support my sister in getting the help she needed."

Ideally, she would, yes, but it sounds very unlikely that she ever will.
As difficult as it is, you might need to consider that this just isnt who she is, and that she will never support you like this, no matter how many chances you give her to do it.

She doesn't give a fig about your mental health. To her, you are not a person with valid feelings, needs or emotions.

My father was the same as your mother and used me as a human shield against my mother's abuse. Now that I have cut contact with them, he is still trying to get me back into line. Probably because he is now on the receiving end of it all.

They can fuck off to the far side of fuck as far as I am concerned. BUT, it took me a bloody long time to get to this point, and a hell of a lot of counselling to realise how my father was not just failing to protect me from my mother, but actively encouraging her abuse of me to protect himself.

This is what your mother wants from you. Ultimately you may need to cut her out too if you want to protect yourself. I mean, look at the way she only cut contact with your aunt when her other sister did. Not when you were on the receiving end. She doesn't actually care about your wellbeing at all.

Gaah been at work all day but waiting to update.

In a nutshell. Mum told sister I self harm. Sister has diagnosed me with borderline personality disorder.

Slithy

Sorry but

there are times when people delude themselves, you are doing this to yourself in believing that you can have a 'normal' relationship with these people.

You need not just to step back but step away from them.

From what you have written they will always find fault in what you do.

You are worth so much more than this.

Honestly I don't want a relationship with my sister.

It's me trying to action that which has resulted in her telling me

I have a personality disorder
It's good I'm seeing a counsellor and getting healthy
That me pushing her away won't solve my problems, they will always be there
And much much more

Mum I just can't fathom. I've told my dad about it today (yes, it all started again today and I'm just at the end of my tether.) and my husband has also got involved to support me. I'm not taking it from any of them again.

Dad SHOULD theoretically be able to rein mum in.

Appalled she told sister about my self harm though. Id only just told her.

Your mum is a big part of this problem. Have you asked her why she told your sister this?

Your sister will say anything to chip away and erode at your self esteem. Your mum will chime in to guilt you and coerce you into thinking she's right so that you play out what they've designated as your role in their toxic story.

You've been bloody strong already which is why they are ramping it up. Say strong and with your DH keep refusing to take it. IF your sister calls- ignore. If it's her and you don't realise a frosty 'I have no interest in a relationship with you, you're too toxic.' If you mum calls and starts on 'I'll say this once or else I'm hanging up, I am NC with sister. She is toxic to me and bad for my health. IF you persist in this, I will distance myself from you too because you will be being the same.'

Set rigid boundaries if you don't want to go NC by making it clear you aren't interested in playing their games.

I am much older than the OP. My DPs are passed away, and it's funny now they're gone that we sibs realise we really don't have that much in common, it's not that we hold big grudges but just that we are all different people and the closeness was mostly through our DPs now they are gone we see much less of each other (and it's a relief to be honest!) - DM was also v insistent we 'all got on together', so it was about her not us!

Just saying because you don't HAVE to be close to siblings.

This thread has been very interesting to read. My dsis won't talk to me and has cut me offoff. I didn't want nc but she's a very awkward character who is prone to outbursts and lack of control. She lives on the other side of the world so I'm not likely to see her again. We've also been having problems with the pil too and have had to create boundaries there.
Families can be so difficult and are as much a source of heartache as support. Take care of yourself OP and look after your own health. Take a step back from them.

Teenmammy1 You need to start a new thread in relationships, you'll get answers there and help.

I suggest you look at why you want to be with a man who disrespects, uses and doesn't want you. Think of your daughter and what a bad example you relationship sets.

OP have you considered that TELLING your mother you self harm WAS an act of self harm?

it may be worth discussing this with your counsellor and looking at the link to your physical self harm and your continued exposing yourself to predictable hurt from your mother. wasn't it only days before she had told your sister something you'd told her?