What pushes you from liking someone to actively getting them into your life?

[ToGoBoldly]

Hi,

What the thread title says, really.

I'm really struggling with feeling isolated and lonely. I've felt like this all my life, but it's been really intense recently so I have been feeling even more low than I ususally do.

I have a handfull of friends but no one really close, and they are all kind of fairweather friends. They've all kind of retreated away from me into their own lives, which is fine, I accept people grow apart, but it feels like everyone in the world has a network of friends and a partner, and I am being left on my own. I try really hard to get out and meet new people and stuff, but I feel like I am constantly rejected and it is really, really difficult to bear.

I have been doing some work on my feelings around this with my therapist and have been asked to drill down on why I believe I don't form close bonds with people. I can only think that people don't like me enough - they don't dislike me, but they don't like me enough to actively want me in their lives. It's as simple as that. She's tried to suggest I might be familiar with the feeling of rejection so kind of invite it, but I really don't think that's true. I try really hard to go out of my comfort zone with people - I am shy but friendly, I invite people to things, I make the first move, I volunteer myself for things, I am generous, I'm laid back and not pushy... but none of this seems to count. It feels like plenty of people think I am nice enough but they don't want or need me as a close friend. I don't blame other people for this - no one is obliged to be friends with everyone - but I just feel like everyone chooses people to be in their lives, but no one chooses me. And I've really hit a wall in trying to work this out.

This post sounds really needy and whiny, I promise I am not like this when I am trying to make friends or boyfriends! Like I said I am having counselling (for various things) but we've kind of reached an impasse on this one.

I've felt like this forever. I felt it at primary school, at secondary school, at university, at work, and in my love life. The only way I could explain clearly to my counsellor was how I felt it at primary school, so their behaviour is clear, not because they are horrible children but because they don't try to hide their feelings. But you can see more clearly with kids how people naturally gravitate towards those they want to be friends with, and that often is the really pretty girl, or the boy who is really good at football or whatever. I don't think things change a lot as an adult, it's just more subtle. And I don't think anything bad about people who have those who gravitate towards them and want to be their friend, but I just feel really sad because it feels like no one naturally gravitates towards me. It makes me feel really unloved and depressed.

I try to be proactive, no matter how many knockbacks I get I try to carry on with life and try new things, but it's really overwhelming. I asked my counsellor what she thinks I could do differently, but she is either stumped, or wants me to work the answer out myself. But I really can't think of anything beyond "people don't like me enough", which is their prerogative, but really hurtful when it feels like I'm not good enough for anyone I've met in my whole life.

So I guess I'm trying to bash out these thoughts a bit more. Am I just hideously unlucky that I never seem to meet people at the right time for them to want to pursue a friendship or relationship with me? Or what is the magic ingredient that makes people want to move things forward? I feel like there is a locked door and people will smlile and wave at me through a window and think "there's that woman, she's nice", but they won't ever invite me in, if that makes sense.

I am sorry if this sounds quite immature and self indulgent

Argh look how long "not the whole story" is. If I ever write my memoirs the editor is going to have a bitch of a job

And I don't feel it's just my counsellor who isn't quite getting me, it's some points on this thread, it's with my acquaintance who asked me why I don't have a boyfriend, it's everyone who has tried to give me well meaning but illogical analyses and advice. I'm open to opinions, but people aren't accepting blatant truths if they don't support their opinions and that doesn't bring solutions. I'm not the one being inflexible.

To go boldly - I am sitting in bed drinking my morning tea and reading through these posts. I feel sad that here is a young woman who feels she can't find the friends/relationships she would like. However, reading through the threads I am wondering what it is you would like people to say? It seems every avenue has been explored. In fact there is very little more to say. I have been around the block a few times. I had a rubbish childhood. Nobody had counselling/therapists then. We just had to get on with it. I hope I don't sound too harsh, but I think it really is not helpful being so introspective and focussing one on self all the time. The more you give out and get involved with things outside yourself the happier you will get and the less lonely you will feel. When you feel everyone is out of step but you, it's time to take a long hard look in the mirror. It is very difficult for posters to really assess what the problem really is. They can read your posts and have a good guess. However if they were to meet with you, I think they would be able to assess the situation better. I am sure your counsellor will have her opinions, but they are not allowed to say, they are supposed to guide you into working it out yourself. You are unhappy because your reality does not meet your expectations. That would apply to anyone, whatever their background. Perhaps you may have to lower your expectations.
It's really not up to anyone else to fix it for you. It's your life and it will be what you make it. Some people spend their whole lives in counselling wondering why they are not happy. Some people spend their whole lives focussing on making others happy. Who do you think has the most satisfying life? As I said my childhood was rubbish, I did not used to be good at friendships, made a mess of my first relationship. I used to have a well rehearsed monologue of how my life was rubbish and how badly I had been treated. I bored all my friends and could actually see their eyes glaze over when I started on about it. Eventually they stopped calling. Eventually I realised I was not only boring my friends, I was boring myself!!
I realised, actually my childhood is over, my marriage is over. Am I going to waste the rest of my life perseverating about it all?

This is your life, your journey. Only you can live it. Only you can as Michael Jackson sang, 'Make the Change'.

Good luck to you and I don't mean to sound harsh, but if you were my daughter I would be saying the same to you. X

Hi marzipan, not harsh at all. and the thing about introspection and being all navel gazey is exactly what I don't want to do. My childhood was shit but I know that's not the cause of things now, and why I dig my heels in so much not wanting to talk about it. I'm in counselling now because I reached breaking point last year and wanted to kill myself, and I have just been trying to work out whether there is any reason I should not do that.

"The more you give out and get involved with things outside yourself the happier you will get and the less lonely you will feel." is exactly the point, for some people it's just not true, they will forever be a misfit and a loner no matter how much they give. Some people are ok with that and are happy nonetheless, but others are unable to live without having some sort of community. I felt if this is all my life is going to be, then I don't want to do it. I don't think the problem is other people, it's me, I'm not blaming anyone because they're not doing anything wrong. I just don't believe the "there's people out there for everyone" line.

So I have lowered my expectations and find it bleak and pointless, so I am at the stage of thinking if my life is pointless, why do I have do be here?

And I have never bored people with my tales of woe - no one I know has any idea about my difficulties because I've not got anyone close enough to me to go to in a crisis of vulnerability, and I don't bore casual friends with sad stories about how my life has been so terrible, I know that's unbecoming. Misery begets misery, no one wants to be around that.

I don't even think my childhood was all that terrible, in the grand scheme of things, some bad stuff happened but all it has given me is perspective and empathy. You get children who have faced unimaginable horror who are happy, and princesses who and stability and untold riches, who are miserable. But if you feel like your life is missing something as fundamental as the love of other humans, you might feel like checking out of this particular hotel.

*never bored people in real life, I meant to say. I may have bored them here . And it's why I'm paying a counsellor, to talk about stuff that is too icky for friends and potential friends.

But you are still very young. We all have our wilderness years. I was many years in the wilderness, feeling just like you. I know it's really hard when you are in that place. But it doesn't go on forever. There will be a change. No tunnel goes on forever, there will be light at the end of every tunnel. Please believe that.

We can't be happy all the time, I don't believe anyone goes through life without a few years in the wilderness. Don't be hard on yourself.

Do you think you may be suffering from some kind of depression? Have you spoken to your doctor? It sounds to me as if there may be something going on with you that needs a bit of help, perhaps medical help. Sometimes it's too hard to do it all by yourself.

Please hang in there and just take it one day at a time. I wish I had a magic wand I could wave to fix it for you.

Love to you x

Thanks marzipan. I know it doesn't look like it but I am hearing and appreciating what you and everyone else is saying, and I really want it to be true and want to stop feeling so shit. I hate feeling like this. I was asked if perhaps I choose to feel like this because its familiar and I fear the unknown. No way! I know it's not good or healthy or normal and I know there is so much more that you are supposed to get out of life. It's not that I am not letting the light in, I just can't find it. Sometimes I feel like I am swimming so much against a tide so I can join people on the island of normal, but I am drowning.

I don't expect to be 100% happy, even 50% would be less painful. I just want to be normal and not lonely all the time. I don't expect to be Cara Delevigne or Taylor Swift. I'd be happy to be the most average of the average. I know life has ups and downs and moments of bleakness or loneliness for everyone, some of them fleeting, some prolonged. But my wilderness has been my whole life and it feels permanent. I'm still young and I feel young, I don't feel old and over the hill at all. But 3 decades is a long time all the same, and I've been telling myself "sit tight, your time will come" and remaining optimistic but my time never comes, and I fear I will be sitting here at 60 still hoping my time will come and I've endured another 3 decades with crushing sadness with no light. Maybe it never will come. I feel like it's an endurance test and not a life, and it's not supposed to feel like this. I keep on trying, but when it never pays off it's overwhelmingly sad. It's like when you were saying about giving and taking with people, I feel like I am giving and giving and giving to life but not getting anything back or achieving anything meaningful and I don't know when I am supposed to throw in the towel.

I don't know if I am depressed. When I had an assessment for counselling last year they said I don't seem to have depression but more anxiety. I don't think there's anything a GP can do that my counselling can't, they've not had any suggestions in the past, apart from counselling which I am already doing.

I will keep trying for now. Off to a new type of exercise class today and then I am going to try a new cooking thing. Down with introspection!

Good girl! You are clearly a highly intelligent and articulate woman. I know you have a great contribution to make to life. Do you work? Full time? Part time? I know it sounds rather trite, but have you ever considered getting a pet. I live alone and have an amazing friend in my springer spaniel. I can't be lonely with him around. Actually I prefer him to many humans. In fact he is now nudging my knees as it's time for his walk!! X

Yes I work full time, which keeps me out of trouble.

I don't think the pet thing is trite at all, pets are proper family and companions in my view. I'd love a dog but my house isn't right and I'm not home enough, but someone upthread suggested the Cinnamon Trust where you can volunteer to walk dogs. I'm going to register with them as soon as I've found a couple of referees for the form. I had a cat who I adored but he sadly died a few months back, I haven't felt ready for another one yet as I was so upset but perhaps it's time...

Hey, I think losing a pet is right up there. Proper loss. Your current very down down probably has a lot to do with that.

But that isn't too say you're not pretty down anyway. From what you've said, that is understandable. Fwiw I believe what you're saying about your experiences. I hesitate to say this but I wonder if your therapist is going to get on your frequency, has the courage to dive into the pit with you. She sounds like she's standing at the mouth of the pit calling you up, encouraging you to get out. But she needs to get down into the pit with you. (To be fair, she may have tried to do that but you may have told her, effectively, to fuck off.)

You say you don't care about being brown, you're enlightened about it. But the thing is, people categorise - and not just about something as obvious as this. People generally put people in boxes so all's well with the world (their world). So along you come and you don't fit into black or white - or in fact anything, any category (as far as they're concerned): who is this person? They don't know where you fit bcs they don't do tuning into someone's frequency, just slotting people into preordained boxes. And yes I do think ppl are racist in fact I know they are

But I'd be lying if I said this was all it was. It would sound cruel to say it looks like all that past trauma you refuse to visit (because you don't 'understand' why you should) looks like it is about to pop. I do hope so, darling, you're hurting so so much.

I know a young girl - gorgeousness itself - who like you is mixed race - and she has had similar experiences of being overlooked by men. She visited Africa and literally stopped traffic.

Guten tag alle

ToBoldlyGo Interesting that you've been told you're closer to a diagnosis of anxiety than depression. What do you think it is about your behaviour / attitude / emotional responses that lead to the almost anxiety diagnosis?

I don't know. I wouldn't say I am a particularly anxious person, nor do I feel anxious on a regular basis. I don't know if it's because I was more concerned that nothing was ever going to change, rather than things being bad now? I am not too clear on the difference, to be honest

Interesting prog on bbc3 at 9 tonight.

Or maybe it's because my low mood wasn't stopping me from getting out of bed, going to work, taking care of myself, doing chores ignores state of bedroom , trying to have leisure pursuits and a social life... I'm not sure.

I'll take a look, Springy.
What you said about coming down into the pit makes sense. I shall chew this over.

You have to acknowledge you're in a pit, mind. Sometimes scrabbling to get out of the pit is what causes the agony. Sometimes it's good to settle in and accept it - it's not so bad (quite peaceful, really).

Accept that it's supposed to be misery?

That suggests future misery. No, accepting in the moment it is misery. In that moment. Not fighting it or trying to get out in that moment. Be still, basically.

But hey I'm not a therapist. I am aware there are some issues here that need sensitive professional handling. It frightened me that you disappeared for a bit (not putting that on you) bcs I know you are currently vulnerable and have recently considered checking out. I know about being human, about facing the grittiness of being human, the mess, the less-than-perfect etc etc but I don't know where you're at and I don't want to be too strong.

But I do, at root, believe that human experience is uniform, that nothing is out of normal bounds. You currently find yourself up a cul-de-sac, for a number of reasons you're trying to find out, but that cul-de-sac is within normal bounds, albeit extremely painful. In an essential sense you don't need to take it personally as it is within the bounds of what happens to people.

Talking complete shit now.

Sorry to alarm you! . I appreciate your concern. I'm ok at the moment. I did a new class on Saturday and spent yesterday making a cake for something. Practised my icing techniques and stuff. .

I feel I have been in a cul de sac forever

Just saw this on another thread

Intimate Connections

Haven't read it but looks pertinent to your situ

Regarding the anxiety and depression - it's hard to know sometimes, because when a state of mind becomes normal for you, it's hard to tell if it's also normal for everyone else. Having had both: if you wake up in the morning and just feel like there's no point getting up, that's depression. If you wake up with a crushing weight on your chest without really knowing why it's there or why you feel that way, that's anxiety.

I think Springydaffs has a point about accepting where you are at the moment. I don't see it as being stuck in a pit, more like being lost in the woods. Sometimes a sit down and a rest helps, because running around in circles is bloody hard work. Either way, the pressure we put on ourselves is half the problem so take the pressure off for a bit.

I feel like you're a little detached from a part of yourself, and the constant rationalizing isn't helping. Maybe it would help to try to create moments where you are focused entirely on the mundane real-world pleasures you do have access too. A lack of being able to concentrate on a book suggests to me you have difficulty relaxing into things. Have you tried relaxation breathing techniques, along with turning down the lights, turning up the heating, putting on some mellow music and just chilling out? Enjoy the process of relaxing, rather than thinking always of the end-point to your task in hand and the next task that needs to be done. You don't have to fix yourself right this minute, so work on creating a mental space where you can avoid thinking about fixing yourself. Finding myself in a state of 'not thinking' is an increasingly common pleasure for me these days!

Yes. I've very often felt there was no point in getting out of bed and feel a sense of dread, but I always do.

You're right, I do find it hard to immerse myself into some things. I am not good at just chiling out, not because I am thinking anything especially stresssful, but because I either get bored of it very quickly or I fall asleep very quickly haha. Does sleep count? I love a nap. I tried meditation and things like that but, ever the cynic, start thinking "omg this is so stupid and pointless and I look like a goon, why am I doing this? there is no point". Kind of like talking about the dim and distant irrelevant past, I guess. So then I am there trying deep yogic thinking but my mind is still going.

The only time my brain truly switches off is when I am dancing. Or perhaps cooking, I do find that therapeutic. I should try something a bit more passive.

I remember a time I looked through an art book during a quiet time at work. I remember it because it was extremely unusual to be completely absorbed in something - it was a marker to me at the time which endured. I was early 20s and constantly struggling the unbelievable din of my childhood and my life. It simply didn't happen that I shut off the din and concentrated on one thing.

I'm glad to say, to my amazement, this is the norm for me now. Part training - you learn a whole bank of skills with all those courses - and part, well, you know I'm a christian and I feel I can rest, that all is well (even if it isn't iyswim). plus I'm getting to be a bit of an old bird these days and one gets bored with all the drama/agony: been there, done that, can't be bothered to do it again, may as well enjoy myself

If you've got a minute, listen to Womens Hour today. A few features that may be of interest - namely, body image/fashion/feminism(kinda) and, particularly, isolation at uni.