He's not a bastard but he's behaved like he is. Confused.

[ComeDownToMe]

DP and I have been together nearly 2 years. We live together and it's great. We get on fantastically, he's witty, engaging, kind, supportive. The sex is amazing and we enjoy each other's company.

It started out as a casual relationship and I had a lot stronger feelings for him than he did me. But we ended up spending a lot more time together and grew a lot closer and our relationship turned serious.

The thing is one of my closest friends recently discovered her DH (now STBXH) was cheating on her and I've seen at first hand how broken she has been. Her ex has been an utter cunt and makes my blood boil.

My DP cheated on his then wife and she slung him out so I know everything I've said about my friend's ex I could equally say about my DP. I didn't feel good about this before but it's even worse now.

Can men really compartmentalise to such a degree they don't think about how much hurt they would cause someone they love.

I will probably be criticised for this and rightly so but I wasn't particularly judgemental on men having affairs before as long as no one got hurt. Now I've seen the hurt it feels a bit different.

I don't think of my DP as a bastard but he's done a lot worse than my friend's ex and I've called my friend's ex every name under the fucking sun.

How do I resolve this in my own mind.

OF COURSE he says it is different with you. It was different with her. At the start. When things were exciting.

So nothing has changed in your relationship,you are just evaluating his past compared to what your friend is going through now? And it's hard to reconcile your love for him with your hatred for your friends dh?
Maybe raise it with him, you may get more out of a conversation with him than the usual knee jerk 'he's a cunt' on here.

Noeuf exactly. Our relationship is good, really good but seeing how my friend is makes it hard to accept how my DP could do that to someone he loved.

We have talked about it, but there's nothing he can say which makes it alright or acceptable. Not now.

Lweji the shitty things was referring to his cheating. He's not shitty to me in the slightest.

Bert he didn't blame his wife but he gave reasons why he cheated which I could understand. As you state, my friend is a good and decent person and I can't see any reason to justify her ex cheating on her. Seeing her pain makes it hard to see any justifiable reason for cheating.

We did talk a lot about it as I had doubts he could stay faithful and he has reassured me.

Look. He's already told you, fairly early in your relationship, that monogamy wasn't a big deal to him. If you want to stay with him then go for it, but don't kid yourself he didn't make it clear from the get-go that he couldn't be relied on to stay monogamous.

Reassured you. I bet he did.

He obviously has regrets about cheating and the hurt he has caused. He does feel guilty.

He did repeatedly try and talk to his wife about the issues in their relationship but nothing changed. Their relationship wasn't bad enough for him to want to leave and they had kids as well. He didn't set out to cheat on her but he did try and improve things between them before he cheated.

I know he behaved like a bastard but he isn't a bastard. He's a good bloke who did wrong and he did treat his wife appallingly. We are both fully aware of that fact.

I don't think it's ok to cheat as long as you don't get caught but I did think what you don't know doesn't hurt you. It's just fucking horrid when people do get hurt.

Bitter my DP was of the view he wouldn't get caught and therefore it wouldn't hurt his wife.

Cocktail he did try and resolve it with his wife before he cheated. She didn't make time for them as a couple once they had their kids and she didn't think there was a problem. I know the cheating was all about sex to him.

"I don't think it's ok to cheat as long as you don't get caught but I did think what you don't know doesn't hurt you."

The problem with this approach is the assumption that the hurt only starts when the OH finds out about the cheating.

Time and time again MNers post threads where they know that something isn't quite right but they don't know what. They start to doubt themselves and wonder if they are being paranoid, then feel guilty for thinking that something might be amiss.

Then there are all the extra little things. The times when their OH has been distant with them because they're busy thinking about the ow/om. The times when they've been left with all the drudge-work because their OH is busy with the OW/OM. The criticism from their OH because they're not as shiny and new and exciting as the OW/OM.

The hurt and damage will so often have started long before the person finds out what their OH has been up to.

I was wary about his ability to stay faithful when we started getting serious about each other.

We have been very honest and open with each other and I prefer it to be like that. I don't want him telling me what I want to hear, I want him to be honest.

It goes without saying he's said how dreadful he feels about hurting his ex and how much he regrets the hurt and he's learned from it and doesn't ever want to do it again.

But I'm also realistic and I know with his track record he can't guarantee he won't ever cheat on me. He broke his vows so I know he could do the same to me. I'm not actually concerned about it anymore, I do trust him now.

I've just had a lot of feelings come to the surface as a result of seeing how my friend is and I'm finding it difficult as a result.

How is he with his kids?

Because this is interesting: "She didn't make time for them as a couple once they had their kids". Did he give her time for herself when they had kids? Did he do his fair share?

Mylovely he's in his 50s and his marriage ended relatively recently. There was a bit of thrill seeking on his side but he had tried to make an effort with his wife. I'm not excusing him but he did try first.

We don't have any plans to have children. He's had the snip and it's not enough of a priority for either of us to look into a reversal.

I do wonder what his wife would say about it.

He said it was no strings fun as the marriage had gone stale
He wanted a bit of excitement and wasn't getting it at home
He says it's different with me and he hasn't got any reason to stray

RUN AWAY!!! Yes, you're still new and exciting enough, but when you have a baby, get older, put on/lose weight, get a hobby/job and have less time for him, or have just been around for a bit longer and someone sexy and exciting comes along at his office or whatever, he is going to to want a bit of fun and excitement again isn't he? And he's going to do exactly the same as before because that's his character, he think that's fine. Don't marry him, you will bloody kick yourself when you make sacrifices to your career/body/life and have kids etc for him, and then he fucks you over for a cheap shag just like he did to his ex.

Lweji he's very good with his kids. The eldest lives a long way away but he sees a lot of his youngest. They have a very good relationship.

His ex didn't really get much time for herself when they had the kids from what I gather. He did pull his weight but possibly could have done more.

At first I thought it could be one of those things of youth, that you grow to regret, but he is old enough to know better.

And the children were babies a long time ago, apparently.

he gave reasons why he cheated which I could understand.

You two truly are a match made in heaven.

You don't seem very confused. You seem utterly convinced that what he did was ok, as his wife didn't make time for him.

When you have kids you don't have time for yourself, let alone anyone else. That's the reality of parenting. If he was anything other than a completely self absorbed shit he would have done his fair share, so that his wife had time to be something other than exhausted. Instead he shagged around.

My worry wouldn't be potential cheating, it would be the fact that when the going gets tough he thinks largely of himself.

If he makes you happy there is no reason to ship out, but protect yourself. Don't make any stupid decisions about career or finances that could leave you worse off if you separate.

"He says it's different with me and he hasn't got any reason to stray."

Good old "it's different with you". Right up to the point when it's the same with you. If he'd said "I'm different now. I've matured, I've realised there are better ways to resolve problems in relationships" it would be more reassuring. From what you're saying he's changed the situation but he hasn't changed himself.

Personally I do think people can change but I'm not convinced he has. Oh he may well be great with you now. But people aren't generally a bastard through and through or an angel through and through. Most of us are a mixture. He might be great with you now, but don't rule out the possibility that he might just revert to being a wanker at some point in the future.

Nobody has a huge amount of time together when they have kids. Couples have to accept that they come second to their new child for a few years. Do you plan on having kids with him?

"he behaved like a bastard but he isn't a bastard."
Are you familiar with the phrase 'handsome is as handsome does', OP? Or maybe 'actions speak louder than words'? Or the one I've read on MN many times, 'when someone tells you who they are, listen to them'?

To behave like a bastard, to be able to actually go through with the actions of a bastard; to not turn away from those behaviours/actions through conscience, morals, empathy, or even just a desire to be able to look yourself in the mirror and not see a bastard; you do actually have to be a bastard.

To go back to 'when someone tells you who they are, listen to them' - I really think you need to have a look at who he's told you he is.

"He did repeatedly try and talk to his wife about the issues in their relationship but nothing changed. Their relationship wasn't bad enough for him to want to leave and they had kids as well. He didn't set out to cheat on her but he did try and improve things between them before he cheated. "
"She didn't make time for them as a couple once they had their kids and she didn't think there was a problem."
I doubt his wife told you these things, they must have come from him.
To me, it reads as if he expected children to make no difference to his life and his nose was out of joint when they did. He had to share his wife's attention with his children, and he didn't like it. Children, especially in the early years, are very time-consuming. They're exhausting. Perhaps his wife would have had more time if he'd done more of the parenting? The issues in their relationship were all his.

So, he's told you that if he's not the centre of your world, he'll cheat.

"He said it was no strings fun as the marriage had gone stale."
"He wanted a bit of excitement and wasn't getting it at home."

So he's told you that you need to make it exciting for him. Or he'll go outside the home.

"He says it's different with me and he hasn't got any reason to stray."
Well, it is different because he married her and not you, he has made even less commitment this time. And that sounds a lot like a warning to me - you are on notice not to give him reason. It's been two years. Do you think it might be getting stale for him yet?

So he's told you he'll stray when he decides he has 'reason'.

I think you have been naive, and now seeing your friend so hurt, you are waking up to your naivety and look at things with fresh eyes. This is a good thing, and hopefully you will be better able to protect yourself from now on. And with those fresh eyes, I would urge you to look at two things anew:

"I did think what you don't know doesn't hurt you."
I hope you are now wondering what you don't know about. And please think about what BertPuttocks posted (21:46:28) about the hurt felt without knowing - so true.

"I do believe we're happy enough together that he's not prepared to take the chance that he could fuck up our life together."
I expect his wife thought that too. And he was prepared to fuck up their life together and the lives of his children for the sake of 'excitement'.

You are going to be super easy to cheat on.
And the thing is your dp won't even have to be blamed, because you've already come packaged thinking that it's ok.

It really doesn't matter if he cheats on you because you both share the belief that as long as you don't find out, no harm done. Perhaps this time though, he'll be more discreet and you won't have to be confronted with the lying, blaming and justifying.

What specifically were his reasons for cheating on his Ex? It's good to know these reasons don't yet exist but it's important that you do know specifically, so that you can avoid those pitfalls in the future. Whilst he's telling you, maybe you could brainstorm about possible future 'reasons' for him needing to cheat. Not having children is a good start, we can't have you being distracted and creating a situation where you basically force him into the nearest convenient vagina.

Knowledge is power, and now that we've established that his cheating, was her responsibility, you now know the scale of your responsibilitiy for his fidelity.

Poor man, being forced out of a marriage that was 'bad' enough to cheat but not bad enough to leave. What an ungrateful cow his Ex was, not acknowledging his sacrifice.

And your dp's ex was a decent person? So that justifies her then dh cheating on her?

Of course he said he tried to discuss it, of course he said she didn't see an issue, because if he said "I made no attempt to sort it out" or "my wife really wanted to work on our non existant issues" but still cheated, you would think he was a bastard, wouldn't you? He is telling you what he needs you to hear in order to maintain a relationship with you. Then when he cheats on you, he will use all the same excuses. Its called the script, and most cheating partners follow it. His excuses have been used time and again, by so many!

He opted out of his marriage at a time when it was toughest, during the baby/child rearing years. Probably leaving his wife with sick kids, tired kids, naughty kids, kids with homework, personal issues, when his wife was sick, etc while he shagged some other woman. While his wife faught sleep deprivation for their kids, and their marriage, he was opting out of it.

yeah, sounds like a perfect gent to me. Not.

Were you the OW, op?

When you have children the dynamics of your relationship change. You do have less time for your partner because you're busy being a parent. It sounds like he was too busy shagging other people to help his wife so she was probably exhausted from essentially being a single parent! He thought she was good enough to have kids with but not good enough to stay faithful to.

He's also basically told you he'll do it to you once he has a "reason to stray". Also note how he said it's different with you rather than he's a different person now and he knows how disgusting his behaviour was. He's blaming his wife 100%. It was easier for him to cheat than to work in his marriage. That shows what little conscience he has.

His kids will think a lot less of him for cheating than they would have if he just left. I also don't buy the "what they don't know won't hurt them". When my ex cheated I knew before I had proof. But he made me doubt myself, calling me a psycho or paranoid or crazy. But I turned out to be right. He was cheating with multiple people. Your oh's ex could have moved on her life instead of wasting time with someone like him.