Getting PIL to see us as a couple

[GummyBunting]

So background- my OH and I have been together almost 3 years, living together for 18 months. We've just baught a house together, moving in soon. We plan to get married next year or the year after, but are not 'officialy engaged' with a ring etc. We also plan to start TTC next year.

His parents have always been tricky. They live in his home town 100 miles away, and have never made peace with the fact that he moved away. They are very needy and dependant; OH is the sole reason for their existance, and they hold him responsible for their happiness.

Every couple of months they fly off the handle and write long letters explaining that they want to stop pretending to be a family, it's just 'too hard' to carry on so they'd rather not try, will cut OH out of the will etc etc. There's always a bit of back and forth and it sorts itself out after lots of tears.

I think a big part of the problem is that they don't see OH as a grown man. They get really upset because 'their relationshp isn't like it was when he lived at home' (10 years ago when he was 18), 'he's changed' etc. Of course he's changed, there's a huge difference between an 18yo and a 28yo! Basically they are distraught because they are no longer the centre of his world, and he doesn't need them as much.

His parents of course know we're buying a house, but don't know our other plans for the future. I feel like they see OH as a child, and refuse to adapt their expectations and behaviour to develop and adult relationship with him.

To be frank, I'm the centre of his life, as he is mine. I'm never considered in their upset. Has anyone been through this, and what did it take for the inlaws to see you as a unit? Do you have to be married? Have kids? Am I just the girlfriend that stops him being with them 24/7 until then? (They want him back home so he can be with them every weekend, and so they can pop over week nights).

Or will I always be the woman that takes their son away from them?
OH has suggested that this time, I join them for the 'resolution' talk that inevitably happens. Is this wise or do I stay out of it?

I know this doesn't help, so I hope things will be different for you, but DP's mother is like this, we have a mortgage and a baby so she's had to come to terms with the idea that I'm not going anywhere and DP won't be moving home to her any time soon, but she's very, very difficult about it and we have frequent blow-ups when she says he doesn't care about her/couldn't wait to escape from her/is a terrible disappointment to her, etc, etc.

It won't change. We just let it wash over us and keep her at arm's length.

I think you should go to this meeting to see how your oh responds to their behaviour.
If the meeting ends in him making lots of compromises and placating them then that would be a very clear indication of what the future holds for you.
That he has attended these meetings more than once doesn't bode too well tbh.

They are crazy. Do not take part in any resolution talk and I'd recommend that your OH doesn't either. Whose agenda is this? Its the PIL who have cooked up some situation where they think a resolution talk is needed.

Don't waste your energy. They will never change.

Cynara that's spot on. Lots of 'you just don't care about us' going on. He calls them every other day and they cry because they don't hear from him enough. Sigh.

Because OH deals with it so well (ignores them until they behave) I've just stood back and let it wash over me. It's been fine and I could totally continue having no part of it, but I'm wondering if it's time to set boundaries ready for the future.

You don't need to go to these family meetings to talk about shit you cant change.

People change, grow up, have families on their own - just like your DP Pil's did!!

He is still very much still at the root of the problem because he has just moved away and not dealt with them and their actions. Your DP needs to have a clear and frank discussion with them and set some boundaries! - not belly rub each other until the next time.

Don't feel bad for giving him an ultimatum - either he stands up for you and your life as a unit - or you walk away and find someone who will. - This is not healthy and no way should you feel bad for loving their son.

They will not change, not after you are married and not after you divorce.

I wrote a really bitter bit - taken it back.
The only person who maybe able to change is your OH, but he needs to do it now otherwise he never will.
Their expectations and him being infantilised by them will destroy you otherwise,

You probably come from an emotionally healthy family of origin, he has not been so fortunate. You describe his parents as "tricky" - his parents are not just tricky, emotionally abusive are the words I would instead use. He has come from a dysfunctional family of origin and they will not let go of him. This structure he is from is based on power and control; they still want absolute over him (and by turn you and any children you may have as well).

What did you say to their thoughts of he being back home with them on weekends so they can pop over weeknights? (from 100 miles away it won't be a day trip).

They certainly do see your man as their child and will never let him become his own person either. His parents are not going to change, after all they have never apologised nor have accepted any responsibility for their actions have they?.

They were and remain not good parents to him, they will likely not be good grandparent figures to any child you may have by him either. They could well use your child to get back at you as his/her parents, they could well see your child as theirs. Your own relationship with them will remain poor as well. These people simply do not respond to reasoned argument and think that its their way or no way; the rule book regarding familial relations goes out the window when it comes to such controlling family structures.

Your man here is key, what sort of relationship does he have with his parents these days?. How has he reacted to all this from them to date, is he the sort of man who says, "well you know what they are like" etc. Such inertia from him if he says such things is simply hurting his own self as well as you.

What does he do with his parents letters, read them or better still shred them without opening the contents?.

Will they be invited to the wedding, does he want them there?. All this needs to be talked about as well.

Does he have siblings, if so how are they treated?.

Can he stand up to his parents, can he at all assert himself and his choices in life?. What are his boundaries like regarding his parents?. They are probably way too low if he wants you to at all attend any resolution talk.

Resolution talks are anything but. Its no olive branch on their part; just an opportunity instead to further put the boot into the two of you. Why has it been at all suggested that you take part?. It seems that such talks have happened before as well.

A totally united front needs to be presented from both of you re his parents. If you are prepared to do that and he is really not wanting or able to do this, then I would seriously consider the relationship going forward.

I would suggest you read "Toxic Inlaws" written by Susan Forward to further understand the dynamics. He needs to read "If you had controlling parents" written by Dr Dan Neuharth as a starting point and consider counselling. He seems to have made physical distance from them, he needs to put vast mental distance between he and they as well.

I think your DP sounds like he's handling this quite well, actually.

I think go by all means, it might help them see that you are a unit, although they may feel a bit under attack if there ate two of you? Certainly don't lay into them with "I'm all that matters to him now".

On the other hand, they may behave more reasonably if there is another person (you) there to witness their behaviour.

OH has suggested that this time, I join them for the 'resolution' talk

No. Firstly, if it's happened more than once, it's going to continue happening, so it's not a resolution at all. Secondly, it's not your problem, and your presence can only make things work. Thirdly they are unhinged, and your partner is enabling them by continuing to pander to them. Go on holiday for a fortnight, don't call them, let them stew. He might then realise just how crazy they, and he, are.

Long-term, having children with him is going to be a nightmare. He needs to cut the apron strings.

Gummy, that's absolutely dreadful. I have had versions of the same crap from both my parents and my ILs (twice the fun!). They cannot get their heads around the fact that we are adults now, they see our growing up and leaving home as a betrayal. They (respectively) hold us responsible for their happiness.

The thing to be very clear about is that nothing will ever be enough for these people. Absolutely nothing. Even if you DP were to move back home and sit in the living room with them every night and never go out, there would still be something wrong with that. People like that are obsessed with controlling their adult children's lives and can't seem to accept that growing up, developing your own mind, having your own plans and moving away is entirely normal and healthy. These blow ups and long letters and threats to cut him out of the will are absolutely disgraceful and amount to nothing less than emotional abuse. I would not be participating in any ridiculous charades or summit talks. There is no way for you or your DP to win at this. Your PILs are not interested in changing and accepting reality.

What has worked in my case is detaching emotionally. I've been in therapy for the last few years, my DP hasn't, but we both see our parents a lot less than we used to. I am very low contact with mine - see them about once a year, sporadic text contact, no phonecalls. DP sees his about twice a year, and phones them once a week. They never make any effort to contact him.

They will not change. That is very sad and very hurtful but I think its probably true. I would recommend detaching, and keeping the information you share with them to a minimum. Parents like this are incapable of sharing in your joy and good fortune - they only gather information to use against you at a later date. Get on with your own lives and your plans for the future. Avoid wasting energy on trying to make them see sense or behave reasonably.

He also needs to stop calling them every other day. That is one boundary that he needs to do as of now. He is not ignoring them at all and he needs also to stop ignoring them till they behave. They have never behaved at all decently towards him as their son. They have instead stymied him and used him as an emotional crutch for their inherent ills.

TBH if he did decide on no contact they would perhaps try to get back at him in other ways; one of them having a previously unknown health problem for instance, sending in well meaning relatives to do their bidding for them (these are known as flying monkeys) to name but two methods such people do employ. You could also receive incessant mail and phone calls, they could turn up on your doorstep or even try to enter your home.

I would also think that his parents will actively rail against any boundary that either of you set so even boundary setting may not work in the long run.

Do not attend any resolution talks, your points of view will be roundly ignored and any points you may will be ceased on by them and immediately used against you. Both of you will certainly come off far worst after such an encounter.

100% agree with Lottapianos. 'I would recommend detaching, and keeping the information you share with them to a minimum.'

They will never change, all you can do is protect yourself. I dated my husband for four years before we got married and my mother-in-law still does things like find him a job in their home village, 130 miles away from where we live. People like that will continue to try and trample all over your happiness.

your presence can only make things work

worse, not work.

Oh, and cynically, are they both (a) rich and (b) close to death? Because otherwise, threats to cut him out of their will are all rather theoretical, and best met with a vague "whatever". And if they're threatening to stop "being a family", so what? Why not just take them at their word? Why does your partner immediately give in to their passive aggressive tantrum attempt to sort things out?

They write to you threatening to break contact. Ignore it, and break contact. Sorted.

I had this sort of thing. I married 'out' of the farming community and moved 400 miles away. We've had all sorts of difficulties and we are married two children mortgage- the full set. My husband has had screaming rows with them but only in my defence. I've had almost 30 years of this nonsense. I never went NC as is usually recommended on here though. They had their set views on how things should pan out and never wavered. I did come to the point where I thought 'Do your worst and disinherit me' and that was a turning point which saved my sanity. Try not to get involved OP because they will twist anything you say.

This is all really helpfull, will try and answer some questions.

• his brother was killed in an accident 12 years ago. Of course this has effected them and is probably why they are the way they are. It also gets them a bit of leeway from me and OH, we are sometimes kinder than we should be.

• OH actually reduced the calls. They used to be every day, on their insitance. During one of the resolution talks, he set some new rules and one of them was that he wouldn't call them every other day, because it's crazy. So now it's every other day, or every three days, give or take.

• OH does read the letters, and then responds with a text that says something like 'read the letter. Give me a call when you feel ready to talk calmly and rationally' (they never do) or just ignores them.

-Threats to cut him out of the will he responds with something like 'it's your money, do what you want with it. I don't want a relationship with you just to get your money'. I think that annoyes them though.

• We haven't talked on the phone or seen them for about 3 weeks now, because of their behaviour. TBH we treat them like toddlers, only good behaviour gets rewarded.

I am very aware that even if we moved next door and had dinner together every day, it wouldn't be good enough. I've accepted that this will continue but OH is great so it's worth it. They are not as a PP brilliantly put it 'nearly dead', but are in their 60s and 70s. So nearly nearly dead.

I'm wondering if it's OK and right to talk very firmly about the future. Like, 'we plan to have a family and this behaviour will not be tolerated. We want you to be active grandparents and we expect A, B, and C from you' etc. I don't know whether they'd like the idea of being grandparents, or whether it will rip them apart by confirming that their son really does have his own life.

Reduction of calls, treating them like toddlers, ignoring bad behaviour, calm detached response to threats about will - all good stuff

How absolutely dreadful about DP's brother. I can't imagine their grief. However, it is not DP's job, or yours, to take on their grief and make things better for them. There was a truly dreadful tragedy - that's incredibly sad. How they respond to it, especially 12 years after the event, is their business.

I would avoid any firm talks about the future. These are not rational reasonable people who will suddenly change their behaviour to accommodate your wishes. Do your thing, and respond to their behaviour as necessary.

Would DP be at all in favour of permanently reducing or cutting contact with them?

We want you to be active grandparents

I suspect you don't, actually. All the unhingedness will go double for a grandchild, and a grandson would be the subject of wild protectiveness given the scenario you have described. Every holiday, school trip, visit to the zoo will be turned over for risk.

Yes, it's impossible to imagine how it feels to lose a child, unless you have experienced it. But that's not a reason to pass that problem to siblings, siblings' partners or grandchildren. They sound incapable of moving on. Presumably your partner is the only remaining child and on him rests all their hopes and expectations? That doesn't make it OK, however.

I think your partner is handling it brilliantly. I'd not up the ante by attending a meeting with him but continue to support him, keeping them at arms length.
for you both.

I think your partner is doing just fine, as well. And that you don't need to do anything except ignore them. Continuing not to react apart from with cheerful indifference is the best thing to do - it's not possible to make whinyarses behave sensibly so keeping contact at a level you are comfortable with is best.

I think I do want them to be active grandparents, but only the nice version of them. When they are being normal they'd make great grandparents, and I was so close to mine I'm keen for my children to have close bonds with all grandparents. But it would have to be monitored so closely. I'll be watching their every step and every few months or so just completely remove ourselves and ignore them until they're normal again. It sounds exhausting.

OH is the only remining child, and a PP said it exactly right, it's like him growing up and establishing himself as an adult was a betrayal. That's just so accurate!

OH has said that at the end of the day, he'd be willing to go NC if the alternative was damaging to our relationship or our children. But we're not quite there yet. I feel like there's still somthing to fight for, or am I being overly optimistic?

his brother was killed in an accident 12 years ago. Of course this has effected them and is probably why they are the way they are. It also gets them a bit of leeway from me and OH, we are sometimes kinder than we should be. Yes that happened to me too

I am very aware that even if we moved next door and had dinner together every day, it wouldn't be good enough. Also very true.
OP You have a right to a family life and fight hard for it. They will respect you actually in a weird sort of way. Good luck

Actually I would attend a 'resolution talk' as that way they are forced to see you as a unit because your partner is making a very clear point that you are in it together. Be kind, be firm and be clear.