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Relationships

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Original poster

When is an affair 'ok'

82 replies

Patchworkpatty · 29/08/2015 22:13

Have just returned from a lovely village 'do' . My near neighbour was there, he is a lovely kind guy , middle aged, own home, semi retired . The 'problem' is that he was there with a lady who he is obviously romantically linked to, but he is married and the lady was not his wife. His DW had to move into a care home last year as she has Huntingdons Chorea (sp ?) and despite his Herculean efforts over the last decade he could no longer provide the care she needed. He is devoted to her still but she was diagnosed in her early 30's and has progressed to not being able to walk, talk easily or look after her personal needs hence the care home. He visits daily although she doesn't seem to know him sometimes. (I don't actually know the exact extent of the situation but I do know he hung on to avoiding care until it was impossible) so my question is , 'when does death us do part' become null and void. ? For me, I was thrilled for him to have a 'normal' loving relationship, but there were others there 'tutting' in the background and even one person being quite vocal in their disgust ! So maybe I have got this wrong. Are situations like this the exception to the rule ? He has been her carer for about 22 yrs. no DC's .

OP posts:

Gingermakesmesick · 29/08/2015 22:17

I used to work with someone who's partner had a wife in a similar situation.

I don't care to be honest although part of me can understand the tuts. To me, I think there is a difference in an affair that is under the radar even if everyone's aware of it and one that actively and proudly struts out. I've probably explained that badly but I know what I mean!

That said a lot would depend on other attitudes towards it. For my part I'd be upset with my husband having an affair but not with him seeking sexual gratification elsewhere.

AlfAlf · 29/08/2015 22:25

It's not so black and white in situations like the one you describe.
I do think though that lot more discretion would be good if his wife doesn't know.

If he was my friend, I would probably understand. If he was my husband it might be another story..

AlisonWunderland · 29/08/2015 22:28

It is possible that he and his wife discussed this earlier in her disease, and she gave him the ok

Todayisnottheday · 29/08/2015 22:38

I have known someone in this position, they did have a relationship and no one judged.

It must be a horrible position to be in but, ultimately, I suppose I think that everyone deserves to get the most they can out of life. If the person they love has gone to all intents and purposes with no hope of that changing then they should be able to find their own happiness really.

I think it's out of order to openly judge someone in such a difficult place. Especially when he has clearly been a loving and caring husband.

beaucoupdemojo · 29/08/2015 22:38

I think that as long as he is continuing to love and care for his wife(which he is), then it would be harsh to condemn him for wanting a relationship with someone who can actively share in his life.

This is not an affair in the usual sense - I don't think the 'normal' rules can apply.

Original poster

Patchworkpatty · 29/08/2015 22:43

I have honestly no idea if it's been discussed, he is more of a quick cup of coffee neighbour who discusses the here and now , very stiff upper lip type not prone to that degree of confidences regarding his feelings, so I really don't know much beyond what's on the surface. The 'friend' at the village do was introduced as cousins neighbour who was staying for a while whilst visiting the area but plain to see they were quite smitten with each other... Am I wrong in feeling happy for him ? He has been such a stoic husband to his wife for sooooo long. From what I have read about her horrible disease, she will just get progressively worse but could live another ten years or more. Does he not deserve love/sex/companionship with another or does marriage mean that he should remain faithful in body as well as in mind (which I do not doubt from the little I know)

OP posts:

FrancesOldhamKelseyRIP · 29/08/2015 22:50

The standard MN line is that you should always finish your existing relationship and divorce before moving on, but clearly in this situation that's not the kind thing to do. Or is it? Is there some respect that's due to his wife by telling the truth? I don't have a clue.

purpleponcho · 29/08/2015 22:50

I dunno. If we vow to stay faithful to someone 'in sickness and in health,' we should do just that. Just my unpopular opinion, of course.Not judging your neighbour because it is no one else's business at all.

MorrisZapp · 29/08/2015 22:51

No expert here but as this looks to have been a slow degeneration, I would imagine his wife was aware of her future and of what might happen. They would probably have discussed things wouldn't they. Perhaps she told him clearly that he should seek companionship, who knows.

Even if they didn't discuss it at all, it's hard to judge him. When I was ill (short term, full recovery expected and happened) I felt like telling DP to do whatever made him happy. I wouldn't want to hear of it or see it, but I'd rather have a discreet agreement than secrets and guilt.

noisytoys · 29/08/2015 23:02

It's not what I would do having made the vows of 'in sickness and in health til death do us part', but nor would I judge one who did. It's not an affair shrouded in secrecy and lies and he is still a good husband. I wonder how the wife and her family feel about it.

WiIdfire · 29/08/2015 23:03

Does it make a difference if it is a physical disease or a mental illness (dementia etc)? Interesting dilemma.

spudlike1 · 29/08/2015 23:04

Nobody's business

mumofthemonsters808 · 29/08/2015 23:11

I think this is a exceptional situation, I imagine he has devoted many hours battling with his conscious about whether he should grab this opportunity for happiness. I also feel sorry for his new partner because the situation is not ideal and she will endure the judgemental attitudes of people who have no experience of these awful,lethal diseases and the destruction and turmoil they create. I can not help but think about how his wife's parents will feel about him being involved with someone else.In my eyes, he still has a lot of living to do and needs to enjoy his life. I would want my OH to get on with his life, my only wish would be that she was kind to my children.

Rockluvvindad · 30/08/2015 09:24

He is still obviously caring for his wife, but no one has the right to judge him. He has lived this. Maybe he and his wife discussed this before she got so ill that she couldn't ?

There will always be those that do, and I would say the same to their face.

pinkfrocks · 30/08/2015 09:26

It's no one's business but the couple's. I don't know why you are posting because although you say you are ok about it, you seem to want other people to give their input. Why?

Many couples where one is disabled or terminally ill give the other freedom to pursue other things which may include sex or companionship with someone else.

I doubt the man you post about is so insensitive to this that he'd flaunt his new squeeze otherwise because in a village it's perfectly obvious tongues will wag.

And for all you know they may be just friends- no sex. People are too quick to put on their judgy pants.

spudlike1 · 30/08/2015 09:34

Yeah this is a pointless gossipy post ....leave them all alone

WorriedMutha · 30/08/2015 09:51

I think perhaps the tutters should walk a mile in his shoes.

Gingermakesmesick · 30/08/2015 10:00

Loads of posts are gossipy.

Interesting that so many feel sorry for him. It's an awful position.

But what about his wife? Is she not deserving of compassion and sympathy? No one has said, 'bloody hell, poor woman.' It's all been about him and what a saint he is to look after her.

I wonder if a woman caring for a male partner would have received such reverence.

Or would we just accept that as right, normal?

Branleuse · 30/08/2015 10:04

if I was the wife, id also wish my husband well.

ShebaShimmyShake · 30/08/2015 10:06

I copped a lot of backlash recently for commenting on a situation like this and I'll do it again because it's what I believe. In situations like this, the man clearly loves and cares for his wife, did everything he could, continues to do everything he can, and she is, sadly, very very ill. The curtain twitchers and the pious peanut gallery will clutch their pearls and moralise and shriek about how he obviously loves sex more than his wife and he should gladly live the rest of his years (limited, as all of ours are, let's not forget) like a monk, ignoring his desires as evil and callous and proof that he DOESN'T LOVE HER ENOUGH or whatever.

I say fuck that. He's not chasing a hot young thing because his wife's grown to be the same age he has and has had his children and he thinks he deserves an upgraded model. He's not ignoring his wife's needs while wibbling and moaning about how she doesn't understand him and he's such a victim and a poor unfortunate soul. He's not even sneaking around behind anyone's back - he's there in public with his partner.

His wife is ill, he cared for her at home until it was no longer possible (nobody who has never been a carer for a sick or elderly person has any right to comment on how tough that is), and now he visits her in her care home every day...and in the meantime, he has found a way to continue loving and living in the other way too, that does not impact on his wife's needs or his love and care for her in any way.

Having to watch his wife's deterioration and his inability to care for her properly would be devastating for him and he will need support as well. And he's not dead, so why do so many people insist that he live as though he is?

Let the spiteful, unfulfilled prudes tut and gossip and judge and complain, they always will, they've nothing better to do. I just feel sorry for them - quite sincerely - because if they think chastity isn't a big deal, then they clearly have no experience of what sex can be, and that really, genuinely makes me sad. (They'll deny this of course, but it's true.)

It's nobody else's business.

WorriedMutha · 30/08/2015 10:09

Neither party is in an enviable position. Perhaps his wife does know? suspect? condone? expect? This is probably a situation where both parties love each other and feel very deeply for the other person. I think if I were her I would want him to have some respite from the grim hand he has been dealt. Both are somehow taking as much comfort from a difficult situation as is possible.

Gingermakesmesick · 30/08/2015 10:10

Well, you're right in that they're not Worried but on balance I'd rather be him and live at home and toilet myself and feed myself and not have had the best years of my life snatched away from me.

Yet interestingly, he's got all the sympathy. The wife is at best an afterthought, an inconvenience.

Crosbybeach · 30/08/2015 10:15

A friend of a friend is in this situation. Partner becoming progressively more ill, an early onset dementia. So they never had kids which she'd wanted. She us now still caring for him but at weekends with a widower who has kids. she keeps it quiet, completely different sets of friends.

But I think she is so brave. I wouldn't expect my DH in that situation to do anything other than make sure I was cared for and walk away to live his life.

Getuhda348 · 30/08/2015 10:16

I work in a home and quite a few men do this. Not the women for some reason or they might do but keep it quiet. I think it's so easy to judge. You're there everyday caring for this person who asks for husband all the time and you know that they are with another woman. That being said most these men are the ones that have spent years caring for them beforehand and still visit them regularly. Life isn't always easy and doesn't everybody deserve a bit of happiness? From talking to these men it's already clear they are full of guilt for first putting there loved ones in a home and secondly carrying on with life without their loved ones. Before working in a home I might have said yes it it death till us part no excuses but now I see a different side. Ones persons illness could effect both life's dramatically or one can choose to not let that happen. These men know they are been judged but choose happiness after many years of trying their best for loved ones.

pinkfrocks · 30/08/2015 10:17

Ginger- have you spoken to his wife? How do you know she's not given him her blessing?

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