Things falling apart a bit

[Ephelant]

I'm in desperate need of some advice. Last night my DP had an instant message conversation with a female friend and I read it, mainly because I know he talks very candidly with her in ways he won't so much with me and I am concerned for his mental health at the moment and for our relationship. I know I shouldn't have but I just can't get him to talk to me.
Anyway what I gleaned from it is that he tried to take an overdose of paracetamol without my ever knowing around the time our ds was born (3 years ago) because he couldn't face the idea of being with me forever. He said he feels 'distant from that memory now' but goes on to say he has trapped himself into caring for me (I have had health issues but not to that extent and have made big steps forward). He shared some very confidential stuff that I won't go into on here as well. Some lines had been deleted but I gather he made comments about my weight as I have put on probably a couple of stone unfortunately which he knows I'm trying hard to lose. I think he said he doesn't want to have sex because of my weight - based on her response, I don't know for sure though.

It just feels like there was just no love coming through in anything he said. I also gather that they have probably slept together at some point but that was before we got together (she is married). I think he has always idealised her and after reading this last night I just suddenly felt "oh. He really doesn't love me." we've had our issues but I did think he loved me, now I think he is staying mainly for our son. I don't want to confront him with what I've read because it would just get awful and I also want to keep things stable for ds, that is my absolute priority. I'm not even particularly angry about what I've read but just feel as if I'm seeing a new and rather sad reality about the two of us. I hope it can get better but not sure if that's realistic or what to do really.

You could let him go, set up life on your own and leave the door widely open for him. Take it from there.

He's just sent me a sweet text saying he'll miss ds and I today at work. And yesterday he was asking what was wrong, I couldn't muster much of my usual behaviour and was just quite absent.

Me & my ex split a week or so before our DSs 3rd birthday - I don't think he even remembers us being together & it's normal to him that he spends some time with me & some time with his Dad - much better for him that we're happy apart. Well I'm much happier - I don't think his dad will ever be happy - but that's another story!

He's just sent me a sweet text saying he'll miss ds and I today at work.

This is where I might be projecting, but in my situation I think exDP got carried away with the emotional intimacy with another woman and was finding bad things to say about our relationship in order to win (more of) her admiration and attention.

The reality of being free of our terrible relationship has been a little different and Miss Colleague has been dropped like a hot potato.

I'd ask him. You could say I'd hate to think you were with me out of some sense of duty, and I get the feeling that's the case. If you feel trapped, I'd rather you said so, as that's no way to live for any of us. I deserve to be fully loved, and so do you.

It doesn't help that he'd rather saw off his arm than have an emotionally charged conversation about something like this, he never really gets angry he just capitulates way beyond what I'm even asking, goes into complete shut down and doesn't let things go either. This is how I find out what he's really thinking, not for the first time either.

Yeah, that sounds a lot like my passive-aggressive ex. I think you will ultimately be a lot happier without this relationship. It sounds like he is punishing you for not being what he wants, but not actually telling you what he wants, so you never get a chance to make changes. (Or if what he wants is "someone who doesn't have any physical problems", he's too cowardly to be honest about it.)

I think if you were to split at this stage - before you start to actively hate each other - you would be able to be effective and engaged co-parents to your son, who at his age would very quickly adapt.

I also think that if you don't split at this time, you will be sitting basically waiting for him to walk out at some point. I myself would rather take control than just sit back and wait for him to make his mind up.

That's good advice Fantasticbuttocks (love the name). I have asked before if he really wants to be with me or is here for ds. I've asked him in the most loving and open way I could and said whatever happens we could work something out, him seeing plenty of ds, etc but he's always said he loves me and has no doubts he wants to be with me. I've asked if he's happy and he has said he's "not unhappy". Which was never a great response but I hoped we could work on it.

Pocketsaviour I don't know if he is passive aggressive. He's certainly not assertive, and finds a lot of situations too difficult or scary to handle so he just doesn't. But I've realised as per above that he does not let things go. Also he can be very grumbly at times I have to say, or make little resentful comments or sigh...or he'll start to say something negative and then just go "oh, forget it". Maybe that is passive aggressive. I feel he just avoids things.

Myturn this is what I don't get, the disconnect between what he was saying to his friend, let's call her Gertrude, and hoe he then is with me which is actually pretty nice. Although the night of the conversation he was asleep in ds room (ds been sick), when I came in he woke up a bit and said "leave us alone".

It's reassuring that people who have split with partners with very young dc, they don't seem to be badly affected. Assuming it's handled well I guess.

Yes that's pretty much textbook passive aggressive! Oh god, the sighing and then "NOTHING" when you ask what's wrong... So, so frustrating.

I was once in a training session and we were asked a sort of personality quiz thing, it was to assess our approach to problem solving. The question was "You're walking through the desert and you come across a wall. You can't see a door or gate. What do you do?"

So most people were saying things like climb over it, dig under it, try to walk around it, punch it down (!), etc. I asked "Well how tall is it? How far does it extend? What type of bricks is it made of?" which probably tells you that I over-analyse problems

Anyway I tried the question on my ex and his response was:
"Well, I suppose I'd just sit down and wait to die."
I said, "What?! You wouldn't try to find a way over or through it?!"
He gave a very sulky shrug and said, "Well it's not MY fault if someone put a wall in front of me, is it? Nothing I can do about it."

We split up very soon afterwards. It sounds so trivial, but it was the first time (after 7 years together!) it was so obvious to me that we had completely different values and approaches to life.

Is the sweet text fairly unusual? If so, I wonder if it's in response to noticing your emotional distance yesterday? He might be the kind of person that is attracted to unavailable people (such as this female friend).

There could be something in that, Cognitive.
I keep turning it over in my mind. I think I am to blame for his feelings in some ways, I'm not perfect for sure. But this problem of him avoiding, avoiding, avoiding. Not just in our relationship but in life, it makes it impossible to solve things. Particularly when I can't take his word for things. He clearly hides a lot - my instincts have been right but seeing it in black and white is still shocking as there's just no way he would discuss this with me.
At times in the past I've made suggestions for how we can make things better but he always finds a problem with what I say, he never seem to approach it with real goodwill. Or he agrees with things but then ignores what we've said and I guess hopes I forget or leave it alone for a while. It's hard to give specific examples but this is his pattern, mine is to periodically get really upset and the rest of the time bury my head in books or my latest enthusiasm.
Sorry, rambling now. Just trying to make sense of where we are and who we are if that doesn't sound too much like nonsense?
I think at some point I have to talk to him but the problem is I feel like I don't have the emotional stamina for it. Which isn't like me, I'm the one who talks and analyses, reads all the books etc etc but with this I just feel like I know how it's going to go. And I don't want it, not when things are just going to go back to 'normal' afterwards. At least now I feel a bit more in control than when I'm trying to get something from him that I know from experience won't stick anyway.
I feel it's hopeless. Today, anyway.
But I don't get how he can be so sweet as well.

pocketsaviour I know exactly what you mean, your ex's response while not exactly how I imagine my DP's is basically how he approaches life and it has been one of the biggest frustrations, he is utterly defeatist and I put it down to very low confidence and self worth but he's just not interested in addressing that.

Well if he tries to fob you off with I'm not unhappy or I'm fine etc, maybe then is the time to say you've seen his messages saying he wanted to kill himself during the birth of your child, and if he'd rather not talk about it the marriage is over as you're tired of living like this and being kept at a distance. Maybe that would focus his mind. Maybe he might start to focus on how his behaviour is affecting you, rather than staying in his own world contemplating his navel with another woman. I'd tell him that him doing that is grossly disloyal.

I think you need to set him aside for a moment and decide what YOU want. I will be honest and say that I would not want to stay in a relationship where I felt my partner was only there out of a sense of duty or because he was too full of inertia to take control of his life and leave. It would be to me as if I was waiting for the other shoe to drop. I would always feel that at some time, I wouldn't know when, that sense of duty would desert him or that what (or who) he really wanted would come along and jolt him out of that inertia. Unless I felt 100% that the man I was with was with me because he 100% wanted to be there, well, I'd rather be on my own. But that's me, you must decide what you want for your own life. It also seems as if he's very hard work for you; moody, PA, uncommunicative, keeps you wrong-footed. Is this really the way you want to live your life?

Take a very, very hard look at your life as it is. Imagine it without him. If you decide it's worth staying, then an honest conversation and counseling will be the only way to save the relationship. It may work, or it may result in him (or you) ending the relationship. But at least you will be living an honest and true life.

I'm not sure what I want. It's complicated (or am I making it complicated?)

We have drifted apart over a period of time, that's one issue. Another is that I've discovered something very worrying and hurtful (the paracetamol thing), and not because he told me. He said to her that he's never been able to talk to anyone the way he talks to her and clearly that includes me. But that incident dates back three years, it may just be that he needed to tell someone and they have a history of sharing a lot emotionally.

I guess the things he was saying about me, present tense, are actually worse. Roughly quoting - "I've trapped myself into caring for her. I am her carer." I'm not going to go into whether that's a justified remark (I don't think so), I just wonder - is it even possible that he loves me given this statement? I know he will almost certainly say he does if I confront him head on, but there is also the lack of sex ongoing for some time. Of the two of us I'm the only one who has tried to improve the sex thing so that's not a great sign.

As far as my feelings go, I'm a long way from the first flush of love (maybe infatuation) for sure but I know that in itself in normal...but there are other issues as you have pointed out acrossthepond, mainly a lack of communication and motivation in most areas of his life. Then my issues are probably that I'm too up and down, I very much have good and bad days and on the bad days he inevitably picks up the slack and that puts pressure on him on top of working. And I can find it hard to deal with the conflicts and disagreements that we have. So while he withdraws even when I do handle things positively, I also know there are times when I lose it. Those are rare since starting medication though.

There are definitely other issues but they are secondary, I think they wouldn't loom so large if it wasn't for the above.

And there is definitely the disloyalty and the lack of chivalry really in what he said to her and the fact that I now feel this is probably his true feelings.

Except he's definitely been nice since, which makes me wonder if he just needed to unburden himself and actually feels better and differently now.

Well, I definitely need to talk to him. That will be fun. Should I apologise for reading it in the first place, try and make it a chance to talk things through and make a fresh start? Part of me thinks yes but then I just feel betrayed and pessimistic that it would be any different or that I could believe him anyway.

Sorry, long post. I really really appreciate all responses though.

God, so many definitelys in that post as well. Ironic when I feel so uncertain

Randomly I am now wondering if I'm overreacting to the whole thing. Somebody help me, I'm getting lost here

You're certainly not over-reacting!

I think the saddest thing for me would be that from my point of view, a couple should be able to support each other and reveal their deepest fears and sadness, as well as their hopes and joy. I could understand him talking to someone else about how your illness affects him (because he wouldn't want to give the impression of you being a burden), but I cannot understand him basically telling someone else that he is terribly unhappy and was suicidal at the thought of being a father. The fact that he's saying this to a friend of the opposite sex feels inappropriate to me and honestly - I'm sorry if this is hurtful but it reads like he's in love with her :(

I agree with Buttocks that you could maybe start with a general convo and then drop the bomb that you've seen his messages if he doesn't level with you. Because by that point, a bomb NEEDS to go off to wake him up to his responsibility as an adult to actually be honest about his feelings.

Ephelant, I don't think you're over reacting at all and if it were me I'd be completely unrepentant. If you want, say you saw something pop up & was alarmed so carried on looking, or make out he forgot to lock his laptop or whatever but as I said I wouldn't make excuses, that just puts you on the back foot and gives him carte blanche to do all his passive aggressive shite. If you're afraid of having it out with him face to face you could try emailing him?! Stbexh and I communicate mostly over email as lame as it sounds we get on so much better than face to face whereby he mumbles/gives me silent treatment all this crap

pocketsaviour, I think he is in love with her. Absolutely.

I've emailed before about things as it's helpful to me to express things that way. I usually feel better for it but I haven't had much back from him beyond acknowledging and kind of saying ok.

You have identified four main issues:

1. You feel that you have drifted apart over a period of time (eg diminishing sex life, poor communication, different ways of dealing with conflicts)
2. The paracetamol thing
3. The things he has said about being trapped
4. He is having an emotional affair with this woman and sharing things to an inappropriate degree

If I were you, I know it must be incredibly hurtful, but I would try to leave no.2 aside - it was 3 years ago - and focus on your relationship now.

It is definitely possible to get past no.1, and possibly no.3, if you are both committed to doing so, probably with the help of counselling. No.4 may need you to ask him not to contact this woman again and see what his response is.

I don't think you necessarily need to admit to reading the messages. You could start off with no.1 and see where you get to. If he isn't committed to making your marriage work, then you should be able to find out pretty quickly without needing to confess.

I agree with Cognitive's #1 and not mentioning the messages unless he completely blocks talking about the things that are bothering you and/or interfering with your marriage.

But if you do mention it, no excuses, absolutely! It gives him the perfect chance to sideline or redirect the convo away from the true marital issues and into the single issue of 'snooping'. If he tries, just say 'that's not the main problem, we can deal with why I felt the need to read the message later'.

I will say something about his 'trapped' statement. My father was very ill with a neurological condition during the last years of his life. My mother was his carer (with help from us of course) and it was very hard. She could go nowhere without either a great deal of hard work to get Dad out of the house or having one of us in to care for him. But NEVER at any time did Mum feel 'trapped' into caring for him. She loved him and it was just 'the way it was' in their marriage. My own husband had to care for me when I shattered my ankle, including helping me on/off the toilet, into/out of the bath, and waiting on me hand and foot as I was completely non-weight bearing for almost three months. He never felt 'trapped', he's said that although it was hard (he's a real outdoorsman & was 'stuck' inside), he actually felt proud and happy that he could care for me. I'm sure he was happier when life returned to 'normal', but there was no 'resentment' that he had to stay home with me.

Honestly, I'm not sure you're ready to talk to him yet. You really need to decide what you want first. Otherwise he'll be able to lead the conversation in the direction he wants or confuse you even further.