My mother has cut me out of her life - long sorry

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I posted on here a while back asking the question "Would you cut your mother out of your life" because of a really hurtful thing she did to me which she refuses to apologise for. I think my position has always been that it would be the last resort - I think my question should really have read "would you risk your mother cutting you out of HER life?". Well I risked it and she has...

Sorry to go over old ground but she told me over a year ago that my SIL found it hard to be around my son who has special needs. I didn't confront my brother and SIL until recently because they are really unapproachable and part of me felt that I had to just live with it. It came out a few months ago in a bit of heated discussion with my brother about something else. I immediately apologised to my mum for the way I had delivered it to my brother but said I felt it did need to be addressed (I have to protect my son, he will pick up on people's feelings about him). My mum denied having said anything of the sort and she, my SIL and brother all called me a liar (SIL said some really nasty things) and said I had invented the whole conversation, and my mum got the rest of the family to gang up on me.

My mum has said very little to my face but has badmouthed me and manipulated behind the scenes including trying to get the one (older)brother who has stood by me against me against me, accusing me of splitting up the family, etc.

Me and my older brother sent her an email telling her that we don't like the way the family operates, the scapegoating, backstabbing, and manipulating that goes on. We also told her that we wanted her to acknolwedge how bad our childhood was (my stepdad was physically and emotionally abusive to us both for several years, my mum left us home alone when we were really small, etc). We told my mum that this has really affected our lives (Neither me or b have much inner confidence and I still have nightmares about the past. I am having counselling now).

My mum said nothing to me and b but showed my younger brother and sister the letter (even though we asked her not to and to talk to us about it instead)and my sister had a go at me, said my mum was really upset and had told her what had "really happened" and that we had made it all up, it wasn't that bad. I sent an email asking to be treated with more respect or be left alone. I heard nothing from any of them till now.

My mum recently started texting and contacting my older b, we are both certain she was doing her usual "divide and rule" bit, trying to get him on side so I am the one left out. He emailed her back a few days ago and said she must apologise to me for calling me a liar and take on board our concerns if she wants a relationship with either of us. I have to say, I never wanted to issue ultimatums, but could not live with the alternatives which would be to just not be myself or true to myself.

My mum has emailed him back and said it is too late, we have both hurt her to much and it is beyond redemption and that we need to sort our own lives out and leave her to get on with hers. She called me false because I had a close relationship with her and never said anything like this before. I accept that I did used to just say "the past is the past" and because I have always been too petrified of losing her to ever cross her, so have accepted blame, guilt, comments behind my back about me and DH, and have carried on being loving and compliant towards her till now. We did have a "close" relationship but on the basis that I agreed with everything she said.

I feel okay, actually. I suppose I have been slowly accepting this may be the outcome for months. But I can't quite believe that rather than discuss things, debate things, get things out into the open and (what is hardest for her - apologise)so we can move on to a new and better level in our dealings with her she is willing instead to lose two of her children. Just feel sad about that really...

(Sorry it was 2 weeks ago not a week.)

still reading all posts!

Keep wanting to reply to you all but I'd write a novel!!

Book I HIGHLY recommend...'How to divorce a parent' Beverley Engel. This is great even if you don't plan to divorce your parent or you have or if they have divorced you. I don't think I would have made it through the last 8 months without...in fact I wouldn't even with my therpists help.

Sakura, thanks for your support (was close to tears!) and no, no one else knew. I was interested about your mothers reaction, well shocked and horrified for you and hubby too! And boy do I know about being a scared little girl. When I fired off my letter at 8 months pg to ask that she did not contact me (no matter how hard that may be) I shut all the downstairs curtains and didn't turn on the radio or tv all day. When I had my dd I had had an epidural, pethidine, gas and air...the next day I still couldn't walk as far as the loo! I was very shaky and tired and bewildered...(never having had looked after a baby before!). On the 3rd day my dad rang and I told him the news and told him about the birth ie drugs so he knew I was woozy cause I told him...he asked 'when can we come and see her'...my reply 'no when can you come and she her'...him 'NO when can WE come and see her' me 'NO when can YOU come and see her' then my mothers voice screaming 'i can't stand it anymore i can't stand it!!!' and then sobbing. So told my dad that i was going to put the phone down, goodbye and did. An hour or so later my dh got the car and parked it outside front door to take me and dd to PIL and I got into car with dd in carseat, suddenly my dad was there at the door...I was a bit surprised, he hadn't said he was coming...so I turned carseat round and showed him dd, he shoved some mail in my hand and said that my mother was in the car and could she come and see...so I (panicing inside) said no, next thing my mother is ambling up the the car, I whizz the car seat round so she couldn't see my dd and said that I didn't want to speak to her or see her and to leave. Her reply 'oh can't i see her' then dh came out of house (all that had taken seconds) and was a STAR. Stood between me, dd and them and took the barrage of anger/emotional blackmail. He did brilliant. I couldn't hear what was said, was so panic struck tho and it was so hot in car and my dd was crying and it was awful so scary. I thought it went on for over 20 mins, dh says the other day it went on for a few minutes! I heard the occasional 'I love xxxx and her mother too despite what she thinks'. Best thing hubby said to her was 'if you don't have the relationship you want after 28 years then what difference is more time going to make?'. They went away eventually and left me in a complete state. I went to PIL and acted 'normal' and the midwife and the health visitors said I was doing beyond miles better than most mums. But I was doing my coping little girl act...and boy can I act cause i did not feel good. Felt like I was in the pit of hell. Was so traumatised by it all and felt guilty and that I deserved to suffer and that something 'bad' would happen to my baby or me or dh. But hey this is my 'loving mother' that I'm talking about. More like a big child. DH said her rant was all about her and how it affected her and how I was spiteful and nasty ie trying to make out to dh that she was nice and caring and gentle mother and that i've been telling lies to him. Strange how I was always the caring daugher for all 29 years before that!

Anyway I'll leave it there...sorry to take over thread Pages! But I've been sitting on that trauma for months...

Oh and comments about the previous generation...yep I agree. They think they've buried it/gotten over it and then take it out on us. Ie my mother wanted me to be a mother to her. Oh and (could be alot of 'oh ands'!!) her and my dad expected me to look after them in old age. And sister when they went (as she gets in debt, still has no house (32 now) and lives at home with them) and even in their fourties talking about getting a wider path in the garden to get wheelchairs down. No they were in perfect health...no wheelchairs to be sniffed at!!! Big kids the pair of them!!!

Okay I'm going! Thanks for listening guys...!

(ps Fox, it must be tough, nice sometimes and other times weird...but like you know, you cannot live your life to make your parents happy...you come first along with child...think we all have times of forgetting it when things don't seem too bad with parents...)

xxxx

Ally, glad you shared. Don't sit on trauma, let it out, anyway you can. I am sure Pages won't mind you using this thread. It's good to hear other experiences, you know you are not alone. Which in it's self is quite sad, to think there are sp many of us who suffered at our parents hand, regardless of how.

You DH sounds like a star! I think my dh would have lost it with my mother! I can't believe anyone would cause a fuss when you have just given birth, but that just shows what kind of person she is, doesn't it?

Pages, your mum desparately wants your older bro on side, doesn't she? It sounds like she is scared that he is happy to share the truth & thinks he may tell people if he isn't on her side? I think she realises that together the 2 of you can cause great damage, should you want to. Her thinking that she gets him onside, then he will turn against you & it will be you v them! How sad she is to try & take away your last family member! How sad & cruel!

Sandcastles, it is classic scapegoating behaviour. While there is one of us (previously my brother) who is on the outside of things all the blame for any upset and bad feeling can safely be projected onto them. But she has never had two of us showing loyalty to each other before - has always managed to divide and conquer - and this position must be very uncomfortable for her. Me and b validating each others'feelings goes against the whole system she has had set up for years of denial and projection.

I have previously through my work seen it happen to a greater extreme to a small child in a family, who was abused by everyone in the family including mum, dad and siblings - and the mother was asking for the "bad" child to be taken into care. He was, but so were all the others too. The parents kept protesting that if they just took this one child off their hands the family would be ok. I found it so appallingly sad that this five year old was being blamed for all the family's problems, they said "if it wasn't for him the family would be ok". During the care proceedings it came to light that there was an older child of the family that had been taken into care in exactly the same circumstances several years earlier. So they had found another scapegoat.

Pages, your story is sad & shocking. For a parent to actually believe that the child is the problem.

But then, I guess in a way, our stories aren't so different!

Ally90 I had almost exactly the same experience with my mother, following dh and I around the streets trying to get near our children after our latest bust-up. I finally wrote a long letter explaining that I was not prepared to live under the threat of her regular blackmailing tantrums any more. She and my stepfather chased dh and ds1 in their car, having already accosted me and ds2 in the street. They then staked out our house waiting for dh and ds1 to arrive home. It was bloody horrible. That's in addition to the 30+ abusive phone calls per night - we had to get voicemail installed because she called repeatedly in the small hours, for weeks on end, screamed a torrent of abusive and weird acccusations and then hung up before I/dh could respond. DH used to take over the answering of the calls entirely because I couldn't cope with it. She also called my father and pumped him for information about our lives and what we were doing, then called and left horrible gloating "I know all about you" messages on our phone. I ended up in hospital more than once because of the enormous stress it caused. I recognise what you say about not opening the curtains - I still have days where I don't feel able to. I never answer our land line - I'm happiest when the ring is switched off - and feel sick when I hear a phone ring. I still scan passing cars for their number plate when I am out. I lock the doors from the inside when I am in, and I move out of the kitchen if I hear a car coming up the drive, until I've established that it's the neighbours'. We ended up having to get the police to warn her, several times, before she finally stopped harassing us. Even when she knew that the police were listening to her messages and had warned her - in person - that she could be prosecuted, she still couldn't stop herself until she received a formal warning in writing. I'm still not sure she will leave us alone over Christmas, I am trying not to dread it but it's always there at the back of my mind. I am now on anxiety medication, ADs and high blood pressure drugs - my GP believes the biggest factor contributing to these conditions is stress. She would curl her lip at that, she thinks I am a despicable spineless coward.

It never ceases to amaze me how many people have had similar experiences with their mothers. I genuinely thought my situation was unique and that other people who thought they had difficult parents didn't know what they were talking about. My mother has one of these episodes of uncontrollable paranoid rage about once every couple of years, usually in response to something not happening the way she wanted it to - it can last for several weeks or even months and is unbelievably stressful. There is no way on earth my children are going to grow up with this shit punctuating their lives every time she doesn't get her own way. Put that simply, all the other complexities and feelings fall away. It's not negotiable. I think threads like this are invaluable - living with a relationship like that skews your view of reality. It was the massive support of other MNers and their sharing of similar experiences that got me through the latest episode. I hope Pages/others are finding it equally helpful.

Greensleeves . I so hope you get to have a peaceful Christmas. I want to cry at what your mother has done to you. You are very brave, far from weak. I don't know if I could stand up to that much direct abuse.

It is the "skewing of your view of reality" that is the key thing I think - our experiences are all different but the common ground we all have from growing up in a family with a toxic parent is the low self-esteem which comes from growing up with such a distorted frame of reference to the real world, having believed this is normal behaviour because it is all we knew and internalising it so we believed it was our fault.

The worst thing is that in between these episodes, my mother could be very giving, generous, loving, witty - although there was always the controlling edge and the threat of disaster if things didn't go her way. She was there when my children were born, we were genuinely close in some ways (although the conditions were very difficult to live up to). I did think I would be able to carry on maintaining a "good relationship" with her, until the latest blow-up when she went so far that something snapped inside me and I just knew I could never go back. I have actually missed her quite acutely at times, believe it or not, and the guilt can be overwhelming. I don't regret what I did - I don't feel there was another realistic choice - but I am very sad that we have lost one another for good and my children don't have their grandmother. They adored her and she was lovely to them. I just know how they would feel later, having to walk the line between that trusting, loving relationship and the unbelievably vicious, unbalanced way she behaves when she is in one of these episodes. I couldn't stand to watch them growing up learning to adapt to it and live their lives around it, as I have.

The last time I posted about this, I got savaged. I'm sure there must be people lurking who think I (and the others on here) have done the wrong thing, that we are heartless or selfish etc. I'd like to see them handle the last year of my life any better.

Hi everyone!
THanks for all the support- this is a great thread. Sandcastles, its interesting that you have also emigrated. I canT believe your mums behaviour before you emigrated. Like Pages said, behaviour like this is not just unmaternal; they are bordering on psychotic. Lets just think of it like that- our mums are obviously very ill. Thats how I get through it. I`m sure they are hurt, lonely and bitter people. But there is still NO EXCUSE for treating their children like this. Everyone has a choice in the way they act, and everyone is responsible for their own happiness. Which is why having my mum out of my life is integral to my happiness.

Greensleeves, your post has wise words and ones I can also relate to. Especially the part about not letting our children grow up with this punctuating their lives. Even if they dont try to hurt our DC directly, the way they hurt us <span class="italic">will</span> have a knock on effect on our own families and its just not fair on them. Especially our DHs who have to pick up the pieces when our mums make us ill with worry and stress. Ally, your husband is lovely, and just think that by cutting your mum out of your life, his life will be much easier too. Ive decided this week, to cut my mother out of my life for good. I thought I had done this already, but I realised that when I wrote the letter offering her the chance to meet my DD, I hadnT really made that commitment. After talking properly to DH today about what she was said to him when she called him at work, I realise that she called him because (weirdly) she thought she could get him on her side . She wanted to tell him how bad I was with the letter, and when he didnt fall into her make-believe world, she started getting angry at him, and then the ranting started. She will try her DAMNDEST to sabotage my life and my relationships. She tried so hard to sabotage my marriage last year, and still canT forgive me for the fact she couldnt control me.
So anyway, Ive cut her out of my life. Christmas is a difficult time for anyone with these kinds of problems, so Im so glad we have this thread. Im going back home, but IM not going to meet up with her. I have a feeling some of my brothers, as much as they love me, will be annoyed with me for this because they are still in denial about her, and playing the games that our families play. But I have a good relationship with them, and they showed me some love and loyalty by turning up to my wedding, instead of being swayed by her not to come.

Sakura, I hope you have a good Christmas & can relax some what now you have some to your decision. I think that calling your dh is despicable! How dare she...what made her think that he would take her side.

Sometimes, I wish mother had just said 'hello' I think that would have meant she cared, you know, just to make that effort. But no. I am glad I didn't have dd there, tbh. Now she will never meet her & will always be wondering 'what if'. I hope that with dd, it will be a case of never missing what you don't have. I would hate for dd to ask to meet her in the future, as my great concern would be that mother would try to upset her life to get at me.

I know with others, their chldren being older, cutting parents off might come with it's own problems in due time. (With regards to explaining etc)

I know now, for sure, that my mother can't hurt me or my family. Although this wasn't a reason for emigrating, it certainly makes me feel better. Knowing that she can't just appear. I would love to know why she didn't speak to me, I would love to know HOW she didn't too. But the only person I can ask is my sis & I hate bringing her into it as she clearly loves us both & I wouldn't ask her to choose.

Mother does that enough! Although, mother knows (I'm sorry, I can't call her anything but mother, I'm not being posh) that should she ask my sis to choose, she will lose out & that my sis will not cut ties with me for her.

Coming up to Christmas & I don't miss her at all. She means nothing to me now, like I her & it suits me.

I do hope that you, Ally, Pages & Greenie can all come to terms with your choices & continue to feel good about them. My friend once told me that if a friend/boyfriend had treated me the way mother did, I would have dumped them years ago, so what difference if it is family? Why hold on to someone who makes you feel less trash?

Good Luck girls!!

less than trash

yes, it is funny how many of us are on different sides of the world to our families! It wasn't the main reason for me being in the UK but it does make it a hell of a lot easier.

It is a lovely support thread and I am sorry Greensleeves that you got savaged last time you posted about this (I hadn't realised you had). I do think that people with loving, 'normal' (and I hesitate to use that word but you know what I mean!) families find it very difficult to comprehend why and how a mother could behave in the way that some of yours have done.

It is interesting to hear Greensleeves that your mother was also capable of being generous and nice. That was the biggest problem for me, confronting my mum about the negative stuff when she and I had been close a lot of the time, especially recently. She also was really helpful after my DS's were born and has done lots of nice things for me over the years, and been really supportive of a lot of aspects of my life that aren't going to have any kind of reflection on her.

But it wasn't the whole picture, and I realise now that it is that very inconsistency in her treatment of me that has led to the inconsistency in my feelings towards her. There were times when as a child she sat and i.e gave me advice about friends and school, but it was the same mother who turned her back in me and rolled her eyes when I had just been beaten by my stepdad. That is a very confusing thing to grow up with.

She has accused me of being false because I told her she was a great mum and I was "over" the stuff in the past - but it took the events of this year to happen before all my repressed feelings, anger, etc got dredged up. Now I realise that part of my confusion and burying of my true emotions was down to her the guilt has definitely dissipated.

I am a bit concerned after reading Sakura's and Sandcastles posts that she could still get to me further down the line though so am not taking my current "happy" state for granted - it is so helpful to read all your experiences.

Some of you have had consistently bad treatment (ie Sandcastles) and have mothers who are obviously unhinged and you are a testament to the power of survival against all the odds. "The book" says that children who are told they weren't wanted often end up suicidal or self harming. You have done amazingly to overcome your mother's treatment of you.

The slating of you on the other thread was awful and unjust and you stood up for yourself admirably Greensleeves. I am so glad it hasn't put you off posting altogether and that you have been able to help us by sharing your experiences. I have noticed that there are still some m.netters who think that we are just being bitches to our mums. I wonder if they think the abused five year old I mentioned earlier should seek out his mum and be nice to her when he gets out of care.

It's also interesting what you say Greensleeves about something snapping inside you. Even after my mum called me a liar, and my SIL said all the vicious things to me I was hurt but still willing to just wait and give them a chance to come round in case it was a knee jerk reaction that they later regretted. I said nothing for a month and then found out via my nice brother's wife that my mum was still blaming me and telling people I had split up the family. That was the point when I just snapped and knew that there was no going back. That's when me and my brother decided to write to my mum and tell her how we really felt about everything. I really didn't know how she would react although I think I knew in my heart it would not be good. But I remember being absolutely terrified beyond belief from the minute we sent it and realising that was not a normal way to feel about your mother.

My counsellor said something interesting when I told him my mum was denying that the past was that bad and telling my sister it didn't really happen the way we said it did - he said that the way I was now was living proof that it was that bad (still having nightmares, etc). And for you guys, being scared from another continent about what your mother could do, keeping your curtains closed and not going out or answering the phone, on tablets - the fact that you have felt bad enough to cut your mothers out of your lives pretty much tells the story of how bad it was or had to get, doesn't it?

Greensleeves, I remember the thread you mentioned. People were cruel & so shortsighted about what you were going thru. They (so far) seem to have avoided this thread.

For some reason people seem to think the mother/daughter relationship is one that is without it's problems, but we know different. But there will, I am affriad, always be people who think you should stick with it 'because you only get 1 mother'

Pages, self harm etc never occured to me. From my dad leaving (when I was 4) to the age 16 I had a wonderful step dad who looked after me & cared for me greatly. It was when he left & my mother moved in her toyboy that I began to feel really uncomfortable. I knew long before then that I wasn't wanted, but my sd made up for that. Once he had gone I had dh (then bf) and a wonderful group of friends to keep me going. It was a major relief the day I left home. Handing back that key was one magical moment!

I remember wasting one of the first weekend after I cut her out lying on the sofa, in a daze, crying. Thinking all sorts. Just wishing she could love me.

Pages, please don't let her haunt you from afar. Be happy. Because if you are on edge, she will win! As I said, I am glad I emigrated, but she wasn't a reason at all. It is just an added bonus. I can walk the street () answer my phone, answer my door because I know it will NEVER be her! My sister would die before she gave her any info & there is no one else who would give her it.

God Pages, so much of what you say is identical to my experiences. I don't feel terrified of anything else in the world, I'm not an easily scared person, but my mother scares the shit out of me. She always has. It's not a fear of physical violence, it's the sheer force of her rage and hurt - her voice can break windows when she goes berserk. The policeman who dealt with us didn't understand what I was in such a state about until he met her - then he understood. Even thinking that she might turn up here makes me feel nauseous. I wonder whether that will ever go away?

Also what you said about having spent years telling her she was a "good mother" (she asked, constantly) and playing down how bad the past was. She has a very selective memory of those years, and I used to tell myself it was too late to do anything about it, there was no point tormenting her by bringing it up, my brother and sister were just being heartless and unforgiving, etc. I feel very angry with myself for that. I was the one who sat there for hours on end saying "You did your best.... they're wrong, not you....they don't really know you" about my older brother and sister. If I hadn't buried my feelings and memories, there's no way I would have been able to carry on seeing her and my stepfather regularly and taking my kids out with them. Towards the end of it all the tension of maintaining that eqilibrium was really killing me. I look back now and can't believe I really thought I was doing the right thing. I could never go back to it now. When I first made the decision not to do what I have done in the past - ie swallow all the blame and my feelings, and alow things to pick up where they left off - I had dreadful nightmares about being forced to squeeze back into my old school uniform and go back to boarding school and repeat my A-levels, as an adult. They were horrifying dreams, in a really weird way. I think they were about my mind trying to process the strain of all those years of shuttling between two different views of "the truth" about my mother and my childhood, forcing myself to keep it up, suppressing my anger about things that happened when I was a child, as well as putting up with low-level bullying and selfish behaviour.

I'm glad this thread has come up now. I have been feeling a bit depressed and anxious again lately, probably because it's the run-up to Christmas - it was always an appalling time when I was younger, it always ended in tears and rows, one or both of my siblings storming out in the middle of the night and my mother heartbroken and crying again, another Christmas ruined, and I always ended up picking up the pieces. I really want this year to be different. However I also keep imagining my mother and stepfather having a bleak, lonely Christmas missing my boys (not me, just the boys!) and hating me and dh for ruining their lives. She said in one of her messages that I had fucked her life up. I'm sure that's what she believes. I've internalised her thinking to such a degree that a part of me still believes it too. It's still all very confusing.

You guys have been busy posting since last night!! I've had to sit down with pen and pad to note down all my thoughts!

Sandcastle: Yes, my mum turning up a few days after dd was born did show what kind of person she is. She's self absorbed, self pitying and very childish. All due to her childhood...I actually got to find out about that from her unrequested response to my final letter. It gave reasons for her behaviour and answered my 'why did she pick on me?'.

Pages: So glad your mother has not divided and conquered you and brother this time. If its one person out of a family, you look like the nutter (like in my case!!) but two of you give it a ring of truth! Good for you both. Scapegoating happened too me, everything was my fault...and when it came to mum or sis being angry they would show it as teasing and provoking behaviour to me...then i would explode with anger and they would laugh. All their anger gone then cause I had taken it for them...and then kept it too.

Greensleeves: Your situation was my nightmare senario. How you are surviving I don't know. I was absolutely horrified to read how your mother is stalking you and staking out the house and phoning 30+ times a day and in early hours. You, a coward? I don't bloody think so! I wish I could give advice but what happened was a one off really. I've only had one call from my mother and numereous postcards and cards and presents and my dad rang once and sent a letter after I requested no contact until I was ready. Neither could respect my decision which is why its all permanent separation now. I just see my situation as so 'easy' compared to yours and everyone elses. I feel you all had it much worse and have it much worse. But I think that's where our mothers come in...think of other peoples needs (ie theirs) and don't think of yourself, other people are much worse off than you...etc! However I do relate to freezing when a car door bangs outside the house, scanning car number plates, jumping and feeling sick when the phone rings. I changed the number after my dad called but the memory of it is still hard to overcome.

Your mother cannot be trusted near children even if she can be great, it would be like letting them play with matches! Safe until rubbed the wrong way! I also relate to mother being nice and giving. But it didn't stop her being spiteful and hurtful when she was in the wrong mood. And it makes it hard when there is that 'inconsistancy' (as you say Pages) in their behaviour. You keep thinking of past nice behaviour and thinking your the one being unreasonable. And the old chestnut 'their not that bad' said with a grimance.

Sakura: So agree with having a choice in the way they behave and we are responsible for our own happiness. Unfortunately my mum thinks that I'm responsible for her happiness as does my dad. While I was around them I often told them to 'get a life', yes a bit immature but the way they would give unwelcome and unwanted advice about the minute detail in my life and my dh!!! You felt like murder by the time you left the house! But all the interest was in the wrong place. I wanted them to be interested in me as a person, not what they could nosy about what I was doing...it wasn't the same. It wasn't 'loving' as they would have it, it was just nothing better too do and it did me no good whatsoever...now if they had said 'how's work?' or even for once in my life 'how are you?'...that would be a first!. (rant over).

DH is wonderful, and he encouraged me to break from family. But he has his own story to tell bout his family...he may come on at some point and tell it. Its v amusing but also very disturbing!. You do right to stop all contact tho. It is hard for me, I so want to send back all the kelter they have sent here, but I know if I do they will take it as encouragement so I resist and resist.

Sandcastles: Re telling children...this is what I feel worse about. However I think I'm just going to give the letters that passed between us. My mother obviously thought that the letter she sent encapsulated every argument for her side. So I see it as 'fair' that my dd should see it and read how mad her grandmother is. But there again I'm letting my anger at mother get better of me. Me and dh really don't want her to read the letter and cards as they are so disturbing...so going to have to find another way! ANy ideas guys?

Understand bout calling your mother 'mother'. I fluctuate but its satisfyingly impersonal I find!

Got to go now, looking forward to seeing your replies tomorrow! This is a great support network! Can we call it 'Our mothers are nutters'? Or 'Adopt an Adult Child'?

xxxxxxx

greensleeves, she fucked up her life. She had choices. Don't feel guilty! Well okay can't make you NOT feel guilty...wish i could!

I had the snapping feeling too, last year.
I also struggle when I remember my mum`s positive points. we have never seen eye to eye, but her positives are that she was sometimes insightful, open-minded about race, religion etc, is intelligent, and creative (can knit and crochet, grow things)

I did self harm myself a couple of times- in primary school . I found physical pain so much easier to cope with than mental (so giving birth was a breeze- thanks mum!). But I didn`t do it after those few times. I think I became quite aware of how I looked, and cuts on my arms looked ugly so I put a stop to that sharpish. Although I did go on to have two tatoos at the age of 15 and 18, which people who know me are shocked by because it seems to not match my character.

Sandcastles, dont worry about your dd meeting your mum. I am not worried about this at all. Firstly, if theres one thing we have learned from all of this its that we cant control the outcome of how people behave. We cant control our mums, they cant control us, and we cant stop our kids from wanting to meet our mums. I wont talk bady about my mum to dd because I am more than confident that dd would be able to make her own decisions about her. I have a commitment to protect my dd when shes small by keeping them apart, but as she grows up, she is more than welcome to meet my mum. I am confident that children are very astute. <span class="italic">Even</span> if your mum manages to establish a good enough relationship with your daughter to be able to hurt her somehow, the fact that our daughters have us to turn to, and will have a good sense of self, means that they will just look at it as though their granny is a bit weird. They have us as support, whereas we had no-one. In my case, my mum finds it impossible to believe that anyone else doesnt have her in the centre of their life, and that is not a characteristic that should impress my dd very much.

Another thing that I feel, that some of you have mentioned is guilt. I am not bothered one tiny bit if someone thinks Im doing the wrong thing by my mum. Im a firm believer that you have to walk a mile in someone elses shoes before you can judge their actions. I dont talk about this to many people, so that helps avoid the "pollyannas", but if anyone asks, just say my mum is not well. Thats what I told my in-laws when they were understandably suprised that my mother wasnt at my wedding. If I was ever criticized, I would just say this:

"with stakes this high, do you really think I would take a decision like this without deciding I had no alternative. Do you think I don`t want a mum in my life? Because I do more than anything. But my duty to protect my family is a stronger instinct than the instinct to be in contact with my mum.^

Greensleeves, I don`t know if this helps at all, but by the tone of your writing, you still sound very hurt, confused and frightened and angry, and I want to let you know that even though all of us still have a long long way to go, I really think its going to get better for you. Because I believe I am just getting past the stage that you are in now. Although that stage can last a while (5 steps forward, 4 steps back)

Oh and before I go that was a good point, ally, about the fact that Greensleeves mum has f*cked up her own life. I remember posting about a nightmare that I once had on Pages other thread that sums it up quite nicely.
In this dream I had last year (before I was married or pregnant), I dreamed I was my mum. I woke up sobbing that I had abused my daughter, and praying to God for a second chance. THen I realised I wasn`t my mum, I was me. And that I was about to get married and I was only at the beginning of my life. I was so so relieved, that I had the chance to do things differently. I doubt my mum will ever regret anything in that way, but the point is, she has had her chance at happiness and a happy family life, and she well and truly fcked it up. I think thats enough fcking up for one person to do in one lifetime, so there is no way she will have any contact with my lovely family to try to do the same thing twice.

Wow, these posts are getting bigger & bigger. I just caught up over lunch!

Ally, I have no clues as to what I might say. I wsh I did. I want her to know that we don't talk & why. But that is as far as I get. I guess I will ad lib when and if she asks.

sakura, while I do see what you are saying about our children having us as support & to fall back on if they get hurt by our parents, I don't know if I can let my dd get that hurt. She will always be vunerable because my mother WILL use all she can to get to me.

Dd will give her the perfect target for that. i.e if dd turns up on her door & say "hi nanny' my mother is far more likely to tell her to pi$$ off than invite her in. My mother will be all 'what do you want, why are you turning up now' Why? To spite ME! She would rather tell her grandchild to bugger off, than try & have a relationship with her, to spite me. She knows this will hurt me & in turn hurt dd. It's not worth it. If dd is adamant that she wants to se her, I will tell her the truth of what happened.

(posted to early)

& dd can decide what she wants to do. She will always have my full support whatever she decides, but she will not go into it thinking that my mother is perfect.

Then again, it could well go the way of my mother being nice as pie, to disprove what I have told dd. But then, it will take 1 instance for her true colours to come out. So it's all very confusing. But thankfully, something I have a while to work out.

Yes, I see what you are saying. I too dont have to worry about this issue for a while. I think the bottom line is that we all seek damage limitation for our children. How we try to achieve that is up to us, and it might be different for all of us. The telling thing here is that we are actually discussing how best to protect our daughters. Even if we get it wrong, it doesnt matter at least we genuinely tried to do the best by our kids.