My mother has cut me out of her life - long sorry

[Pages]

I posted on here a while back asking the question "Would you cut your mother out of your life" because of a really hurtful thing she did to me which she refuses to apologise for. I think my position has always been that it would be the last resort - I think my question should really have read "would you risk your mother cutting you out of HER life?". Well I risked it and she has...

Sorry to go over old ground but she told me over a year ago that my SIL found it hard to be around my son who has special needs. I didn't confront my brother and SIL until recently because they are really unapproachable and part of me felt that I had to just live with it. It came out a few months ago in a bit of heated discussion with my brother about something else. I immediately apologised to my mum for the way I had delivered it to my brother but said I felt it did need to be addressed (I have to protect my son, he will pick up on people's feelings about him). My mum denied having said anything of the sort and she, my SIL and brother all called me a liar (SIL said some really nasty things) and said I had invented the whole conversation, and my mum got the rest of the family to gang up on me.

My mum has said very little to my face but has badmouthed me and manipulated behind the scenes including trying to get the one (older)brother who has stood by me against me against me, accusing me of splitting up the family, etc.

Me and my older brother sent her an email telling her that we don't like the way the family operates, the scapegoating, backstabbing, and manipulating that goes on. We also told her that we wanted her to acknolwedge how bad our childhood was (my stepdad was physically and emotionally abusive to us both for several years, my mum left us home alone when we were really small, etc). We told my mum that this has really affected our lives (Neither me or b have much inner confidence and I still have nightmares about the past. I am having counselling now).

My mum said nothing to me and b but showed my younger brother and sister the letter (even though we asked her not to and to talk to us about it instead)and my sister had a go at me, said my mum was really upset and had told her what had "really happened" and that we had made it all up, it wasn't that bad. I sent an email asking to be treated with more respect or be left alone. I heard nothing from any of them till now.

My mum recently started texting and contacting my older b, we are both certain she was doing her usual "divide and rule" bit, trying to get him on side so I am the one left out. He emailed her back a few days ago and said she must apologise to me for calling me a liar and take on board our concerns if she wants a relationship with either of us. I have to say, I never wanted to issue ultimatums, but could not live with the alternatives which would be to just not be myself or true to myself.

My mum has emailed him back and said it is too late, we have both hurt her to much and it is beyond redemption and that we need to sort our own lives out and leave her to get on with hers. She called me false because I had a close relationship with her and never said anything like this before. I accept that I did used to just say "the past is the past" and because I have always been too petrified of losing her to ever cross her, so have accepted blame, guilt, comments behind my back about me and DH, and have carried on being loving and compliant towards her till now. We did have a "close" relationship but on the basis that I agreed with everything she said.

I feel okay, actually. I suppose I have been slowly accepting this may be the outcome for months. But I can't quite believe that rather than discuss things, debate things, get things out into the open and (what is hardest for her - apologise)so we can move on to a new and better level in our dealings with her she is willing instead to lose two of her children. Just feel sad about that really...

[Ally90]

Following on from you Sandcastle, when your own family ie in my case mum, dad and sister, don't believe you or say they don't, when you live with it everyday, you feel like your the only sane person in a madhouse. Then you wonder if its the other way round, due to the fact the people around you deny the reality of what is actually happening. Then when you first come out of the situation you are still caught up in the lies/unreality. However the good news is, after 10 months away from my mum and the unreality, reality has a way of seeping back in and you see them for what they are. But to do this I had to break with my dad as well because he had his own version of my childhood and again oh how much worse his was and mums was.

I could go on this thread for years so don't worry about rambling on Pages, it tends to happen when there is alot of injustice and no one will listen, or wants to listen to your side of the story (not on here, life and people in general)! I have just learnt to not say anything, in answer to family questions I just leave it at 'I'm not in contact with my family anymore' and if there isn't silence and more questions are asked, best reply is 'its for various reasons' and give them another silence.

And if I sound harsh and cynical, its the self defence mechanism I developed as a child, however I'm working on getting my emotional side back now I'm away from such harmful people as my family. Might be safe to have emotions now!

hugs to you both

xxxx

[Pages]

And to you both too xxx

Thanks, I feel a lot better today. Being misjudged and wrongly accused IS the pits, in some ways what my mum and siblings(who are supposed to care about me) have done feels worse than what my stepdad did. At least he never professed to like me.

My mum has counted on and used the fact that she weilds such enormous power over the others that they will always put her before me, and till now she has had so much power that I have even put her feelings before my own. But I have clawed back that power now and I don't intend to lose it again. It is not surprising considering the way that the family operates that none have them have stood by me except older b who has experienced it first hand himself. I do think that at some point my mum will have to find another scapegoat and I have a feeling my sister will be next in line. But it may take a while.
My siblings are much more comfortable with the notion that my mum is a Saint and I am a liar and they won't give that up easily.

Living with the "unreality" (as you describe it Ally) is so isolating isn't it? I had all these feelings of sadness/upset at what was happening but didn't even acknowledge them to myself because no-one else was acknowledging it so it must have been just me. It takes a long time to break out of that pattern of internalising it and blaming yourself so I must always expect to have the odd day like I had yesterday where i question myself.

Also, saw my counsellor today and told him the guilt I felt was over the harshness of some of what I said in the letter to my mother and he pointed out that a mother with a healthy ego should and would be able to hear it. That made me feel a lot better. I know that my kids would have to do a hell of a lot more than write a letter like that to me to make me walk away from them. In fact if they wrote me anything like that I would feel terrible that I had made their lives so miserable and would be desparate to make it up to them. My mum's response is to say that SHE is hurt, and to walk away. What does that say about her? Errrr... drama queen and crap mother?

Thanks again for the support. xx

[Pages]

PS That was me getting angry again, do you like it?

[sandcastles]

Pages, glad you are feeling better.

I like the angry you...it's very healthy to let it go.

Any mother who puts her own hurt above that of her child, is really no kind of mother. The mothering instinct is a strong one to protect & nuture. You didn't feel very protected or nutured, by the sounds of it. Good parenting involves the ability to put your childs wants & needs ahead of your own wants and needs. My needs didn't figure much when I needed her to be with me in hospital. My wants didn't figure when I was a terrified 9 yr old, just woke from a major op on my face, spitting blood, crying for her.

Alot of people have said that maybe my mother did the best job she knew how to, but that doesn't cut it with me. I was the 3rd she gave birth to & the 4th she raised (eldest was my half brother) I think her best should have been a damn sight better by the time I came along! I have had less than half her experience & feel I do a far far better job with my dd, than she ever did with me.

pages, your children will NEVER have cause to worte you such a letter, because you will in way let history repeat itself. You are a better person then your mother....you are a better mother than your mother.

Hell, I like ya & I've never even met ya!

[sandcastles]

"pages, your children will NEVER have cause to worte you such a letter, because you will not, in way, let history repeat itself. You are a better person then your mother....you are a better mother than your mother.

[Pages]

You too Sandcastles! I was only thinking this morning how coming on mumsnet and meeting nice, supportive and caring women (and men! - said in a Monty Python Life of Brian type of voice) from all round the world means that I have less time anyway for the RL people who treat me like crap!!!

And I agree with you Sandcastles, you sound like you have a fab relationship with your DD and I know whatever complaints my boys have they will be nothing along the lines of mine, and I will be able to listen because I will know I did my best for them, and I believe my best WILL be good enough, unlike my mums.

It's good to know when I switch on my computer in the morning that you guys on the other side of the world may have been posting while we all sleep... it's like 24 hour support isn't it!!!!

[Pages]

PS Ohhh I DO like saying she was a crap mother. Crap mother! Crap mother! Crap mother! Ahhhh...that's better.

[sandcastles]

Pages....That's mumsnet...there is always someone here to listen to your 'crap mother' outbursts!!

Your best IS good enough! Don't ever doubt that. I often tell dd that I love her hundreds of times a day...I tell her that no matter what happens I will always love her & put her over anyone else. I tell she can tell me anything & I will listen. She is 3! But I need her to know what I never did...need her to hear those words that I never did!

I told her the other day that if something is bothering her, she should tell me. Later on, when she was in bed for her nap, she called me & said something was bothering her. When I asked what, she said "I am bothered because I can't sleep" not quite what I meant, but glad that she remembered!

[sandcastles]

Am off to bed now (It's 1am) so will chat to you tomorrow.

Hope you have a good day & continue to repeat your mantra. Crap mother! Crap mother! Crap mother!

Take it easy on yourself!
Night.

[Pages]

Sandcastles, lol at your DD. Sleep well!

[foxinsocks]

Pages, saw this earlier but didn't have a chance to post properly.

I think it can be quite hard for other family members - especially if they aren't in your close family. Their memory of your childhood may be coloured by the fact that you 'appeared' ok at the time. Your mum is amazingly manipulative and I wouldn't put it past her to have got hold of your relatives.

I also think anger and guilt are pretty normal. I was very angry for most of my youth and really have only started feeling a little guilty about everything in the last few years.

But as you've said, you KNOW she was crap and you KNOW you're going to do a better job.

Hope things continue to improve bit by bit for you.

[Ally90]

This is a great thread...!

I've been desparate to speak to other people going through this! Esp early this year when I dumped the mother.

My mother too put her hurt above me, I wrote her a letter telling I could not be around her right now and as hard as it may be to put me first (in other words than that). Did she? Did she hell as like. Just 2 days after my daughter was born she turned up on the doorstep having hysterics. I was still woozy from the labour, pethadine, epidural, I felt completely out of it...and she turns up demanding to see my daughter. I got two cards from her, given to me by my dad, both addressed to my child. Not sure how good a 2 day old baby is at opening cards so left them unopened. Nothing for myself or my husband to say congratulations. Got presents despite me having spoken to her about only giving us money for a large item (it was to be the pram...hmm...lets add two and two together, mum buys pram, mum gets to push the pram as she 'owns' it). Oh and the minor matter of me contacting HER when I was ready. Which was not 2 days after giving birth.

Told you I could go on...long and short of my childhood experience of my mother is she was a bully. My sister (2 years older) would do usual 'your stupid fat and ugly' and other variations on that theme and my mother would laugh along...or big licks would be when she said 'oh stop it' in any irritated voice to my sister if I complained too much. If I ever looked like crying or upset i would get 'oh we were only teasing, I do love you'. Hmm I must have looked stupid.

They say if you want to know your place in the family script, think back to your last christmas day...thats when everyone gets together and assumes their old roles from childhood in the family. I used to get my mother and sister telling me to 'be nice its xmas day' then they would sit at the dinner table and rip me to pieces then when I finally exploded in anger 'oh isn't she nasty! On xmas day as well' and my dad would get angry at all of us and it would subside, apart from the looks I continued to get from my sister. Oh thank goodness I get a normal xmas day this year with people who appriciate me for who I am and don't want to change me into them!

Liked what you said Sandcastles, very level headed! We can and will do better than our mothers...because we acknowledge that we can make mistakes and the important thing is to own up to them! Or alternatively you can bury your head in the sand and never get to see your child/grandchild again. We all have choices!

Gosh, must get rid of the cynical attitude. Still alot of anger there!

Where are you guys based? I'm in North Yorkshire, UK

[Pages]

Thanks Foxinsocks. I am feeling great again today (had a good counselling session). It really is a bit like 5 steps forward, 1 step back - but I am definitely moving forwards. I think DH and older b are quite amazed - they both thought I was going to be more upset than I am but I guess I have been dealing with it for a few months now and the positives that have come out of it all so outweigh any residual bad feelings that get the better of me from time to time.

Did you guys feel like you are more alive and like some huge pressure had lifted from you when you finally accepted that your mum was never the mum you had kidded yourself she was/hoped she would be? It almost feels like a relief to actually admit to myself that her mothering just wasn't and still isn't good enough.

I was wondering why is it that a child has such a strong attachment to their mother? And it is because she is the one person that the child instinctively (and biologically) totally trusts to put him/her ahead of herself and to defend and protect him/her at all costs. The maternal instinct is just that - an instinct. Animals will kill to protect their young. And with our mothers that instinct was (and still is) at times sadly absent. We have every right to feel angry...

Apologies Fox, I can't remember quite what your situation with your mum was/is?

[Pages]

Ally, just read your last post - I missed it the first time. Can relate to so much of what you have said. Your mum and sister sound horrible. My role in the family was a similar one to yours, and for that reason I have hated family gatherings for years. Well done for being so strong. I take it you have a supportive DH?

Sorry for asking you all and then not saying where I am but I don't like to go too public on here, but feel free to CAT me any time. Glad you have found this thread helpful Ally, there was a much longer thread I started on the same subject earlier in the year which if you are interested I will try and provide a link (though am not very good at the link thing).

[Ally90]

Hi Pages!

No problems bout location! I understand.

I've known for years my mother and sister were not good enough and were abusive. Sending that letter to my mother was good and bad. Guilt and at the same time 'you reap what you sow'. It was a relief not to have to be around her any more, and telling my dad I couldn't be round him just made me feel better too...but there is so much guilt at times I can't feel it. But I can see where you are coming from!

My moment of realisation was when I was 16 (29 now). I got my GCSE results...I was convinced despite consistantly good results in tests I was stupid...any good results were flukes. I cannot tell you how utterley and totally I believed my sister and mother. So when I read my results I was in utter shock and stunned disbelief. Then about 3 minutes later I was in floods of tears 'I got a B I got a B I got a B'...it was a bit tragic! I actually got 3 B's and a C...still proud!! Then after that had sunk in the thought popped into my head 'I've been lied too'. That went on in my head for a couple of months...I then went to live residentially at college and that is when it hit me. I was so ANGRY...screamingly angry...every time I came home if my mother or sister said a word to me I would scream them down. I couldn't bear to hear one more hurtful thing.

Then of course it was blamed on being a teenager. Bit late at 16...but nevermind...couldn't be their behaviour towards me!

Eventually after 5 years I was back on almost normal speaking terms with my family. I just swallowed the anger. Didn't say anything because it would 'hurt' my mother.

But it took being pregnant and taking various angry or emotionally blackmailing phonecalls from my mother wanting to see me to make me realise I had to look after my baby (re my stress levels re blood pressure!!) then it dawned on me...I had to look after myself and put me before my mother. So I cut contact.

My regret? I should have done it at 16 and not wasted so many years putting her first.

I have a very supportive husband (is that DH??). He has a nutty family too so he gets it!!

Strong is not a word I use...I just survive.

Do you have much support apart from your brother?

Anyway better go, bedtime! Sorry its been about me...once I start...I'm like the duracell bunny!

Take care
xxx
PS (what is a CAT?)

[Sakura]

Keep at it Pages. Youve still got a long way to go, but I think youve past the hardest part i.e the realization moment, and then the confrontation. From now on it will be less dramatic, but JUST as difficult, and there will be moments where you will feel sorry for her and guilty (again showing you are a better person than her).But just keep reminding yourself that you would never treat your kids like that, and would go out of your way to stop anyone who tried to. In that sense, you can even see this confrontation as protecting your kids.

Ally, I am so sorry for what you had to go through. I cannot imagine your hurt. My mother was physically and emotionally abusive,but I never felt bullied by my siblings. That is a double wammy for you. You must be so strong to be getting through this. I mean, at least my BROTHERS (and Pages` brother) can accept what happened to us, and that kind of validates it. Is there ANYONE who knows about what happened, and is not trying cover it up?

[SantaGotStuckUpTheGreensleeve]

Wow, Ally, you have been through the mill

I like the Duracell bunny image, I had a little dry chuckle at that. I had exactly the same realisation, just a little later - it eventually came own to my children's welfare vs hers - and I chose theirs. I still feel guilty, who wouldn't? and Christmas is particularly loaded - but I would make the same decision again, no question.

I hope you're finding this thread supportive and I hop you're feeling better, Pages. You deserve to be happy. Remember that.xx

[MossletoeAndWine]

Hello pages & everyone,
Wow, this thread has made me realise I'm not alone, thank you all.

My mother, father and younger sister are members of what I can only describe as an ultra fundimentalist christian church.

After I escaped, I did some reading and realised it met all the criteria for a cult. For 22 years I lived at home, wasn't allowed to do so many things that normal people do (e.g. I wasn't allowed friends unless they were either in the cult, or unless I planned to get them to join). My mother was the worst. It was weird, looking back, because my Dad would try and bend the rules (e.g. even though we weren't meant to watch much TV we were allowed to watch Doctor Who?! wtf?! and dad managed to find some obscure scripture in the bible to back it up - everything we did had to be backed up by scripture) but my mother would follow them to the letter.

They also belived very strongly in "spare the rod, spoil the child" and would beat my sister and I quite badly with a belt for the tiniest offences from about aged four I remember. It was so frightening as well, more so because they didn't do it in anger. They'd wait until a day after and then make my sister or I get the belt and hit us on the naked skin.

My Mother kicked me out at twenty two because I'd done the ultimate wrong, had sex outside of marriage, and with a man who not only wasn't in the cult, but was actually an atheist.

I tried to stay in touch with my family for about four years after that and it messed me up more trying to stay in touch, especially with my mother, than it would have done otherwise.

The final straw came when I announced dp and I were getting married. My dad was okay about it but my mother realised it finally meant I wasn't going back. I too wrote a letter to her explaining my reasons why, and she never spoke to me again.

I email my dad about once every two months, just really superficial stuff, there's nothing else we can talk about. My sister wants nothing to do with me and made that clear even before my mother did.

I am now pg with our first ds, but it has brought it all back again, and it's very difficult. I am trying to look at the positives, I have a wonderful dh, my mil and sil fantastic and live locally, in fact mil lives within a 20 minute walk.

But it's hard to have such mixed emotions. For the past few years I've been so glad I haven't had my mother in my life. But now I'm pg I feel like I miss that family support, I know dh's family are great but it does feel like it isn't enough.

I haven't told her I am pg but may have to inform her when Bertie is born, not for her sake but I don't think it's right for Bertie not to know he has a gran and a grandad, and an auntie. But I don't have to decide that until March.

So I just wanted to come on here and say thank you, everyone, for sharing your stories, because it makes me feel like I'm not the only one. Everyone I know says things like, "yes, but after all, she is your mother", and they just don't understand.

Pages I am sorry for having taken over your thread with my long story, but maybe the more people who share this kind of thing the less alone it feels.

Hugs to everyone xxxx

[dizietsma]

Reading this has brought up a lot of feelings for me about my mum and dad. I've cut dad out of my life for over 5 years now and I have a very unhappy relationship with my mother for similar reasons to yours Pages. Honestly, I don't miss dad. I periodically cut mum out of my life and when I just don't feel the loss, it so sad.

This thread is very helpful, ((Hugs)) to all.

[RnBee]

Stay strong, Pages. I feel for you so much x

Mossletoeandwine, I was brought up in this same religion. Such a shame, your story is a very common one in this religion. I know exactly what you mean about all this rule-bending when it suits the person!

[Pages]

Hi, thanks for the support. It is really interesting reading your stories so don't ever apologise - for me too it is good to know I am not alone.

It is also good to know the guilt is a natural reaction but I too would make the same decsion again without hesitation - am just a bit sad for not having done it earlier as a lot of years have been wasted dancing to my mum's tune.

I don't know why I didn't, like some of you, confront it all and stick up for myself when I was in my teens or twenties but I suppose as I have said my mum has invited such conflicting emotions over the years because during the times when I have behaved exactly as she would like and been the model daughter her behaviour to me has been thoughtful, generous and kind. When I was a child the failure to protect us and the coldness was interspersed with some genuinely kind behaviour so it was not consistently bad, and in my adult years in some ways she has tried to make up for it I think by being generous and helpful in the ways that are easy for her to do. So the negative stuff has not been not as obvious as it has been with some of you and the fact that I have been undermined behind my back has only recently come to my attention so some of it I just didn't realise.

Maybe I just wasn't ready to stand my ground before - maybe I didn't realise the extent that I had compromised who I was and conformed to expected standards until now. Maybe I just believed the family myth that we were all close and loving and it took this recent incident to make me realise how far from the truth it was. But I truly admire those of you who had the "realization" when you were teenagers or quite young - I wish I had had the self-belief and courage you had then and wasn't so dependent on my mum's love.

[Pages]

DH said (before this all happened) that my mum had spend the first half of my life ignoring me and the second half trying to be my best friend and that sums it up in many ways. But my best friend also pointed out that she is like a child in the way she relates and has always tried to be "one of us" young people rather than behaving like a mother.

[Pages]

PS Ally CAT is "Contact another talker" via mumsnet so you can email without putting your email address on here.

And I do have support yes, from DH and a few very good RL friends, but I try not to lean on DH with it all and that's why I'm having counselling. Two of my RL friends have a similar problem with their parents and can relate but haven't actually done the confrontation thing so it really helps to talk to people who are in a similar position and have actually gone through it.

[sandcastles]

Hi Pages.

Perhaps one of the reasons you didn't 'confront it all and stick up for myself' is because you weren't ready to? I know that if my mother hadn't have stole the money from me or accepted her new dh's rejection of me from the family I would have taken much longer to 'realise' what she was like.

Also, quite frankly, because she is your mum. You don't want to believe that the one person who should love, protect & nuture you is capable of such toxicity towards you. I remember looking at Melissa, still do sometimes, thinking 'how could she not love me?'

I haven't felt guilt for what happened with us. She is the one who should feel guilty, it was her actions that bought us to this outcome. Her selfishness, her 'abandonment' of me, her lack of emotional love, her joy of telling me how I wasn't wanted.

We were burgled once, I was in my teens, still at home. Dsis was at a mates. Mum, dad, me all in bed. My mother...the f%^cking drama queen fell apart. Sobbed..yelled...couldn't ring my sister & ask her to come home I had to. I had to take over the phone call to the police. She blamed ME as I had to climb in thru the window they used when I had locked myself out (they found my shoe prints). Apparently I had given the burglers the idea how to gt in, as they MUST have been watching the house! My school bag was taken, her bag was too. She blabed on about how she had no purse, so I handed her one of my sisters. She went mental when she found out 'they' could have touched it. Threw it across the room like it had just given her a deadly virus. Screaching like a scolded cat! I was the one comforting HER! A week or so later she was over the worse. I however, couldn't sleep, eat, concentrate at school. She wouldn't send a letter to the school to say my school bag was stolen, so the teachers thought I was pulling a fast one. I was on sleeping tabs, booked in for councelling. I fought the sleeping tabs, eventually falling into a very restless sleep. She wouldn't come to the dr's (had to work) said she wouldn't be able to come to the councelling (had to work). She was only ever worried about herself. As long as she was alright, well hey, that's OK. The councelling didn't happen as I cancelled it. Dad took me away for 2 weeks. Some how it had an effect on me & after that I learnt to deal with the emotions that haunted me about it. I still have bad dreams, but they were worse until I realise that I hadn't cried, or shown any emotion about what happened. I couldn't my prescious mother needed to have all the attention!

It had such a profound effect on her that she STILL lives in the same house!

Sorry, have rambled, not quite sure where that came from, actually! Think I was trying to point out why I no longer feel any guilt. It's all hers. She deserves it more than I do!

[snowleopard]

Sandcastles - at your story, you're a hero to have survived all this and proof that it can be survived.

Pages - I remember your previous thread on this too and I think you're behaved admirably - and you can and will adjust. About the "false" thing - that is a typically manipulative dig to make at you, but if you think about it most of us are "false" with various people, aren't we? Particularly family members - that's one reason why christmas tends to be stressful, because we see family and have to bury past hurts and try to be polite. I am very "fasle" to my mother and sister because I am trying very hard not to hurt their feelings, which I would if I was honest. Eg I have many issues with my mum from the past (not as bad as yours, but along the lines of why didn't she protect us from my dad, the cruel comments she has made, the lack of support), plus I can't be doing with her boyfriend. My sister is needy and very hard work and I would like to tell her to get off my back, but I don't because I can't face the fallout. So I'm "false" - so what? Just trying to manage family angst like most people do - and yours has been even worse than most people's. You've tried to hold it together, but it's too much - and not because of any failing in you, but because your mum is being just too demanding, outrageous and as others have said "toxic". Try to forgive yourself for anything you're blaming yourself for.