My mother has cut me out of her life - long sorry

[Pages]

I posted on here a while back asking the question "Would you cut your mother out of your life" because of a really hurtful thing she did to me which she refuses to apologise for. I think my position has always been that it would be the last resort - I think my question should really have read "would you risk your mother cutting you out of HER life?". Well I risked it and she has...

Sorry to go over old ground but she told me over a year ago that my SIL found it hard to be around my son who has special needs. I didn't confront my brother and SIL until recently because they are really unapproachable and part of me felt that I had to just live with it. It came out a few months ago in a bit of heated discussion with my brother about something else. I immediately apologised to my mum for the way I had delivered it to my brother but said I felt it did need to be addressed (I have to protect my son, he will pick up on people's feelings about him). My mum denied having said anything of the sort and she, my SIL and brother all called me a liar (SIL said some really nasty things) and said I had invented the whole conversation, and my mum got the rest of the family to gang up on me.

My mum has said very little to my face but has badmouthed me and manipulated behind the scenes including trying to get the one (older)brother who has stood by me against me against me, accusing me of splitting up the family, etc.

Me and my older brother sent her an email telling her that we don't like the way the family operates, the scapegoating, backstabbing, and manipulating that goes on. We also told her that we wanted her to acknolwedge how bad our childhood was (my stepdad was physically and emotionally abusive to us both for several years, my mum left us home alone when we were really small, etc). We told my mum that this has really affected our lives (Neither me or b have much inner confidence and I still have nightmares about the past. I am having counselling now).

My mum said nothing to me and b but showed my younger brother and sister the letter (even though we asked her not to and to talk to us about it instead)and my sister had a go at me, said my mum was really upset and had told her what had "really happened" and that we had made it all up, it wasn't that bad. I sent an email asking to be treated with more respect or be left alone. I heard nothing from any of them till now.

My mum recently started texting and contacting my older b, we are both certain she was doing her usual "divide and rule" bit, trying to get him on side so I am the one left out. He emailed her back a few days ago and said she must apologise to me for calling me a liar and take on board our concerns if she wants a relationship with either of us. I have to say, I never wanted to issue ultimatums, but could not live with the alternatives which would be to just not be myself or true to myself.

My mum has emailed him back and said it is too late, we have both hurt her to much and it is beyond redemption and that we need to sort our own lives out and leave her to get on with hers. She called me false because I had a close relationship with her and never said anything like this before. I accept that I did used to just say "the past is the past" and because I have always been too petrified of losing her to ever cross her, so have accepted blame, guilt, comments behind my back about me and DH, and have carried on being loving and compliant towards her till now. We did have a "close" relationship but on the basis that I agreed with everything she said.

I feel okay, actually. I suppose I have been slowly accepting this may be the outcome for months. But I can't quite believe that rather than discuss things, debate things, get things out into the open and (what is hardest for her - apologise)so we can move on to a new and better level in our dealings with her she is willing instead to lose two of her children. Just feel sad about that really...

[sandcastlesforanaussiexmas]

sakura, exactly! The mere fact that we are discussing it..!!

That's why we are breaking the chain, and why our children will have different childhoods to us. I bet the last thing on our parents minds was to be protecting us!

[MusicLover]

Sorry to invade the thread (only found it today), but would like to add my thoughts to you all.
I havn't read the whole thread thoroughly but had a very good scan through. I couldnt drag myself away.
Firstly I am glad you are all finding support from each other.
You have all been through such traumatic times with your families.
Its reassuring to know that I am not alone either after reading all this. Although my case seems rather mild compared to some on here. But mild as it may seem, the long lasting damage is still rather raw. I could cry (not only for my own situation) for you all.

I have alot of resentment for my mother, but she really has no idea that I feel this way towards her. I just cant tell her how I feel as I dont want to hurt her (I Love her) But deep down I hold alot of hate towards her & I cant let go of the past.
I wouldnt no where to start on my situation as I feel I could write a book.
I, too have cut my mum out of my life, on numerous occasions. At the times of doing it, I feel really cold & stubborn & can honestly say I do not need her in my life. But the hatred overwhealms me & I feel like I am re-living the past...does that make sense? While, if I am on speaking terms with her the hatred doesnt seem so strong.

At this time in my life (since being with DH) I am alot stronger & assertive towards my mum & dont let her rule or dictate my life so therefore feel a pointless feeling of telling her how I feel.

But the deep down hurt, hatred, resentness is still there.

I went for couciling a few years ago regarding being sexually abused as a child, but spent the whole hour talking about my childhood,mum etc.
I think I just needed reassurance from a professional point of view that it was not a normal healthy childhood IYSWIM.
I never went back again as I suppose I didnt want to feel all the hurt again. My idea of burying it into the back of my mind seemed a better solution. But its not the way is it, as I have now realised.

Well I apologise once again for invading, I think you are all marvelous, coragous people.
Very at some of what I have read on here.

Well done for getting this far.
Pages, thanks for bringing your situation to light, you have made us all realise we are not alone in what we have experienced.

((((hugs too))))))

[sandcastlesforanaussiexmas]

Musiclover ((((hugs)))). Please don't apologise for posting. If it helps, then we are glad of that! I don't think any one here would think your reasons are mild. Myself, I don't see it as how extreme or mild our cases are, just that to the individual they are huge enough to cause that person pain & therefore as valid as the next!

I am so so sorry that you feel haunted by your past & don't seem to be able to break free. It must be hard resenting someone & loving them so much that you hold on to your pain, so not to cause them any! That, in my eyes makes you a special person. I hope you find a way of dealing. Can I be honest? IMO, I think the present way is not doing you any good, tbh. I understand that you don't let her rule your life, but by not wanting to share your pain & hurt her, I think in a way she IS ruling your life. That is just my opinion, and not something to hurt you. You should do what you think is best & I'm sure I speak for us all when I say we are here to listen and not judge, anytime you need.

I do understand what you are saying. You stay on speaking terms with your mum because not doing so brings it all to the fore. Like sustaining that relationship, no matter how destructive, helps you cope? Because it keeps it all locked away. When you cut the ties, you start to analyze why you are doing so & it throws all sorts in your lap! Poor you!

You will feel pain, however you deal with this. It is inevitable. I don't think we are able to lock these things away for ever.

Good Luck, post anytime you like & I hope I haven't overstepped & upset you xx

[MusicLover]

sandcastles
Thankyou, no no you havnt upset me in the slightest. I think your post was very hearty & honest.
I fully understand what you mean too. Im just 'chicken' to speakin my mind really. Its not just about saying anything to her, its where to start!
Funny enough its 14 yrs today since I left home & I tried to tell her then how I felt but she turned it round & put the blame on me really, so I gave in.

Here goes then.....well some of it anyway..!
My mum & dad split when I was 4. I have an older brother too (different dads). The only memory I have of dad at home was the sound of him abusing my mum! He never really bothered whether we had a pair of shoes to our feet. (but thats another story)
My mum suffered with depression & was very strict. As children we had to be very well behaved. I felt all she did was shout! We had to keep our clothes clean otherwise she went mental!
When I was about 9 she married again to a lovely man. But she was a very agumentative person who just couldnt keep her opinions to herself, so she made his life hell really. When they separated she went into hosptital with a breakdown. My bro & I were separated, he went to nans & I stayed with friends. At the same time mum decided to tell us we have different fathers, which sent my brother off the rales abit. So mum had to cope with her condition aswell as keeping him in tow. He abused the situation by gettin into trouble with the law, but constantly wanting things (bikes etc) to keep him out of trouble. I always felt that I didnt dare to get into trouble as I was so scared of my mum. Mum told other people that I wasnt affected by her split/condition as I never got into trouble etc. But I suffered in silence really, I kept my pain to myself.
Prior to mum splitting up with my step dad was when I was sexually abused (I was 10). But I couldnt even tell her as I blamed myself. The longer time went on the harder it was to tell her.
Looking back Id say her depression never went.
My bro was then diagnosed with epilepsy at 13, but at the time he was in & out of foster care & young people unit, so I spent alot of time alone at home with her. Id say at this time was when it started to get really bad for me. I fell mum treated me more like a partner than a daughter.IYKWIM.
Her constant gibes at me, telling me I was a selfish bitch & that I didnt care about my bro etc..I wasnt allowed a life either, I had to return straight from school, do all the cleaning, if I pulled my face I was hit & called a lazy cow...blah blah. I was only allowed out 2 nights a week, but if I ever wanted to go out more it would take me hours to pluck up the courage.
The strange thing is she let me smoke at 14, let me stay off school if I didnt feel like going, but went ballistic it I didnt open the curtains properly or clean how she wanted it to be clean.
So there was no structure really.
To tell you the truth I think its the mental abuse thats really affected me.
As I got to 16 I was having boyfriends, she would hit me infront of them if I was late in, then ground me.
As she was on the 'sick' with depression & a lone parent, when I left school I had to get a job rather than going college etc. She took the majority of my money for board, but my bro would not pay her anything (& get away with it)He would also steal off her & me. She even put m y board up when he wouldnt pay!!! I had to give up my bedroom for him too!!!
I had 2 jobs, one f/t & one p/t, tehn when I came home at night & fall asleep she would wake me up & say "some fucking company you are". She constantly got at me as I never asked her how she was, therefore I was selfish.
She was vrey opinionated too, on my friends/b/friends.
i just feel that she took it out on me by how my brother behaved. He is still an arsehole now!

I could just go on & on here so will try & keep in condensed as pos.

I think the final straw for me was when I ended up in a phisical abusive relationship (DS biological father) I already had DS then, but got caught p/g straight away again. I lost the baby 20wks into the pregnancy due to an amio (I had to give birth to her). My then partner was an arsehole, & wouldnt even stay with me on the night of loosing her, but the next day my brother turned up at my door with his son, telling me mum had kicked him out after an arguement. Because I took him in, mum fell out with me because I got my priorities wrong
I needed somebody with me so my bro was better than nothing. But for her to fall out with me when I needed her most is truely unforgivable & I dont think I will ever forgive her for that!

It was 9 yrs this saturday(2nd) since I lost my baby girl & I dont only feel sad about the loss but feel that hate towards her for not being there for me.

My god I can ramble..........thanks for listening.

[MusicLover]

oh dear just read through that, some of it doesnt make sense! but im sure you'll understand.

[Ally90]

Musiclover,

You think thats minor??? What would it have taken for you to have classed it as major abuse???

I'm shocked but understand why you don't think its that bad. That's half the problem with mental/emotional abuse you tend to think your feeling sorry for yourself but that's your parents point of view that you or we internalise. Try and read it as if it was about your closest mate then you may be shocked.

I too tried to not 'hurt mum' and held it in from the age of 16 to 29. The turning point was starting to stand up to her when i got pg. She started with her old behaviour she had kept a damper on since I had moved out, being emotionally blackmailing and then angry with me for not doing as she wanted ie playing happy families with her. Each time I brought things up from the past she would not remember (oh to have such a bad memory!!) or deny she meant it 'that way' or laugh it off. The classic line her and dad came up with was 'but we took you too see stately homes...'. That came up when i was 18 and when i confronted my mum by letter 10 years later...how amusing. Despite being taken to see stately homes it just meant my mother and sister could bully me in a different place. In the end at 8 mth pg I had taken a very verbally agressive phone call from her. I was shaking within seconds of picking up the phone to her. Still took notes tho. It was all about how she was paying for an improvement to the house (yet dad was doing the hard work!) how I had a mate over to stay for xmas and she only got invited round for 2 hours (yeah, my mates better company and not demanding!) it went on and on. In the end when I would not get angry back like usual (that pees them off when they press all the buttons and they don't get the expected response) she finally, finally asked if there was something that she had done...I told her yes, but did not want to talk about it. So she kept pressing me and pressing me to tell her, and I kept refusing. I did not have to tell her, I was sodding 8 mth pg and the last thing I needed was her denying how she had been in the past to raise my blood pressure further than it had already gone. So said goodbye put down phone and realised that I had to look after my baby. Then it finally clicked, to look after my baby I had to look after myself. It was like a light coming on in a very dark room!! All these years I had surpressed my anger and pain and humiliations and frustrations. To the point I thought it would kill me one day. All to protect her. ANd you know what, she didn't give a damn about me or my baby, the grandchild she professed to love. It was all about her. How she was embarressed to let the neighbours know how little she saw me. What other people would think. Something that bothered her my whole childhood, she'd pick on me and humiliate me for being 'dirty' and always say 'what will other people think?. Sod that, what about how I felt at being bullied by her?

Okay rant over, just when you think you've got your life story out of your system more pops out!!

So anyway, my long rambling point is...who do you want to not hurt. Your mother. Or you.

"But I suffered in silence really, I kept my pain to myself"

And you still do from what you say. Send a letter. Let her know. Put the ball back in her court. She can own what she has done instead of you owning it. Think of how you would act if you had a letter from your ds with those things in. Would you rant and rave and scream. Or would you love him enough to just sit and listen. Acknowledge his pain. And apologise. If your mother cannot do that she's the wrong mother for you. Try therpy again. I tried to bury mine so hard and it all came up when I least expected it. Please don't feel you have to carry this anger for the rest of your life just to save your mothers feelings, did she ever save your feelings?

You can be strong and you are strong to have survived all this. Especially surviving the loss of your daughter. I'm so sorry for you and what you would have endured to give birth to her. I cannot imagine the pain it caused you to do that alone. You should not have been alone.

Now I'll go before I start short my keyboard with tears. Sorry if i've been too forceful in my views but I get so angry when people stick with families who are so hurtful. Angry at the families, not you!

Take carexxxx and glad your on this thread, Pages seems to have started something rolling here.

[Sakura]

Lol Ally at the fact they are proud they took you to stately homes .
Hi Musiclover! I think you have been abused badly by your mum, and then have to cope with the added issue of the sexual abuse.
Its true what sancastles has said that you are maintaining the relationship with your mum at the expense of yourself. I must sound like I want everyone to split from their mums but its not that. I just think its so sad that people are not happy because they are still trying to appease the person who made their life a misery. In a sane world, she should be begging forgiveness and count herself lucky that shes still allowed to be involved in your life. Instead, you are still caring more about her feelings, than she did (does) about yours. <br /> <br /> I can totally relate to the way she allowed you to smoke, etc but was strict about trivial things like curtains. <br /> My mum didnt bat an eyelid when I was coming home too drunk to stand at the age of 14, had a tattoo at 15, and brought men back to my room at that age. all very self destructive behaviour. and yet she went ballistic at the tiniest things, depending on her mood that day. The reason is because she wasnt caring and couldnt face dealing with any real problems. she was what you could call an enabler, allowing me to destroy myself under her nose. I was sabotaging myself, perhaps to get back at her in a round about way, and she well and truly took a step back and watched.

[Pages]

Or try, Musiclover, to imagine all that happened to you happening to your DD if she had lived and then tell yourself it was minor. (So sorry btw for what you have been through )

So many interesting things said since I last posted and no time as have only just caught up and need to sleep...

But two things that immediately struck me - one is about the guilt that all of us have felt and I think Sakura is right it does go, but just remember the guilt you are feeling is because your mum has always held you responsible for her happiness. It is to some extent a reconditioning of your belief system that needs to go on. Greenie, and all of you, you are NOT responsible for your parents' happiness and if they are sad and lonely now it is THEIR doing, not yours. I really found "Toxic Parents" had a lot to say on this subject and it has really helped me lose the guilt, don't know if permanently but the guilt for me has lessened 100% just in the last week since I started re-reading the book.

The other thing is about grandparents. Don't forget that while your mothers may be or have been able to wield this huge power over you and turn you from a strong woman into a terrified child, they WON'T have the same effect on your DD's because your DDs are not growing up with them, dependent on them and subject to their controlling and manipulative ways as you were. Your DD's are going to grow up with self-worth, self-respect and the love of a caring and gentle mother. When and if they meet your mothers they will not be open to the same kind of denigration and mistreatment because they will have a strong enough self-esteem and the frame of reference we didn't have, ie that of having grown up in a loving family where their rights, opinions and feelings are respected. They will not put up with what we have because they will know better. I honestly don't think grandparents are that important. They may be relatives but I don't think the unconditional love is there the way it is with a mother. Neither me nor DH knew our grandparents and neither of us care or feel we have missed out. I do feel a bit sad that my mother is missing out on my DS's growing but sad for her (even though of her own making) not for my DS's.

[Sakura]

Greensleeves, I hope I havent offended you in that post I wrote telling you it will get better. I dont mean that you appear more hurt or angry than the rest of us. ITs just that I am shocked by what you have been through, and I really think that there are different stages of feeling okay. I think that in the future we will all feel more okay than we do now, because we are all managing to face up to the problem. Maybe some of the do-gooders who say we should forgive our mums, had worse experiences than us, but are not brave enough to face things head on. Because its f*cking scary to do so. Much easier to keep up the charade and pat yourself on the back for being a forgiving person. WHen in fact you are taking it out on yourself or your own children.
I think with hard work, we can all reach a stage where we can actually call ourselves happy people. I certainly havent reached this stage yet. I complain far too much about things in my daily life. I dont value my talents and achievements, and so have always found it difficult to enter the workforce at the level I should be at for my qualifications. I see confident women, much younger than me, with half the qualifications I have, who are thriving in their careers because they have the self belief to do so. Also, of course, there is the depression and anger. The depression is getting easier for me- there are less bad days. And I have absolutely got control over my anger now. If I get angry at my DH for something small, I just swallow it and let it pass. Ive been doing that long enough now that the feeling rarely rises. But Ive still got a long way to go.

[MusicLover]

OMG Just read your replies. I've just sat here & cried. I really dont like crying over it but in another way I feel it needs to come out.
Ally90
Sakura
Pages
Thankyou for your words of wisdom

Ally90 you are so spot on with how I feel its mild. I actually grew up thinking 'there are so many worse off than me' & thought I was feeling sorry for myself.
It hits home more when you become a parent yourself though doesnt it?
I must buy that book 'Pages'.

I would just like to add to you all, I went on to have another daughter, with my husband. She is 3 & its the best thing that happened to me.

Sakura: so you've suffered with depression too? I too have. I was very depressed in my teens.
It wasnt until the loss of my daughter that I actually went on AD's. I was on them for nearly 8 yrs. I weaned myself of them a year ago.

Im actually shaking here while Im typing, my stomach is doing somersaults.

You sound jsut like me Sakura, having no confidence in yourself, I never did, (have a little now)But how can you when youve had all the confidence knocked out of you, or was never allowed to gain any.

My own life has definitely reflected on my children though. As my DS was only 8 months old when I lost my baby, I feel that coping with the loss, my abusive relationship with partner, AND my mother, just made a big difference to how I brought him up. I was battered nearly everyday throughout my pregnancy with DS, then when he was born it was the same, so thats all he knew. Ds woke everynight until he was 2.5, which wore me out & made me aggitated & I would shout at him. As he was toddling, there never went a day that I didnt shout or smack him. yes I know (I really beat myself up about that) I was exactly the same as my mum. I grew into her.

Im getting really upset Sorry!
Going to have to come back after, when Ive controlled myself.

[MusicLover]

Im ok now, after that outburst.

Just been reading over some of your posts again.
My concentration is terrible, I have to keep flicking back to what you have all written so I can remember what to reply to. So Im not being ignorant to anyone, just a terrible memory!

I was getting to a point in my life (not so long ago) that i was willing to try & forgive/forget about the past. The main reason being is because I kinda relate to my mum with her depression etc & Im so much like my F**king Mother!
I shout, Im stressy, I swear! I have rather bad mood swings when PMT arrives. I have no patience with DS with his homework etc.!! Its awful in this household when Im like this!
I even remind myself of her.
I fecking hated her for the way she was with me & I do the same.
Why couldnt I learn by my childhood & prevent being that way?

[Pages]

Musiclover, hugs to you. Crying is good, anger is good and whatever mistakes you made that is ok too because you recognise them as such and have done what you needed to do to make things better for you and your family.

I honestly believe if I had had kids when I was younger I would have been a dreadful mother, I think I will be a better one now that I have faced up to the past but we all are still going to make mistakes. It's how you move on from that that matters. And it is okay to get thing wrong -kids are resilient and as long as your children have a secure foundation of love they can get past a lot of those mistakes. I think it is that secure foundation of love that was missing for many of us, so we were very sensitive to what happened on top.

Sakura is spot on (as usual!) that confrontation of your parents even though scary is what moves you on. It has really worked for me, it has transformed my feelings about myself and I have been feeling really joyful and happy, even if the guilt and fear is lurking still in the background. This hasn't happened overnight though, I have been in counselling for 6 months and have been through every emotion possible in that time. Like Sakura says, I am sure it is 5 steps forward and one back and i don't expect that this is it for me now, but it has definitely got better. Also, I think it is true that what you don't hand back you hand on.

I, like you Musiclover, found having kids of my own dragged up the past for me because I became acutely aware of the difference between the overwhelming feelings of love and protection that I have for my kids compared to how my mum must have felt about me to even let me suffer a tiny bit.

Must fly, back later, be gentle with yourself Musiclover. Hugs again. xxx

[foxinsocks]

aww musiclover, if only it was that simple!

I admire people who come on here (and WigWamBam is one, not sure if she's posted on this thread but has had a similar past to myself) and say 'I am determined not to repeat the past and I will provide a better future for my children'. I think it takes an awful lot of strength to get to that place, I really do.

I think if you have suffered systematic abuse throughout your childhood (and in addition, I see you have suffered with depression), it is really hard, as an adult, to put that past behind you and be a positive and caring person because the people who were supposed to love and care you never treated you like that!

Have you had any counselling for what you've been through?

And remember, you are not your mother. It may sometimes feel that you're becoming like her but that's just another negative cycle of thinking.

[Pages]

My post crossed with yours Musiclover, glad you are feeling better. I am sure others will have a lot of wise words in answer to the question you put but in brief, I think think the answer is.... your mum has handed you a legacy, history does have a tendency to repeat itself - unless you allow yourself to recognise it, grieve about it and hand it back. That sounds very simplistic and I do apologise but I really must fly. Glad you are ok.

[MusicLover]

What a great thread this is, its really making me see sense here. thankyou.

Pages: I was 24 when i had DS & 30 when I had DD & I really so believe I was definitely a better parent with DD than DS. Her start to life was so different to DS's though.
Im thinking positive now! I met my DH 7 yrs ago,& thats when I began to believe I wasnt a selfish person anymore. I was experiencing love for the first time, not only feeling love but receiving love too. It woke me up to alot of thoughts & feelings. But after being together for nearly a year, we went away for a holiday & he poured his feelings out to me. He said he was getting nothing in return (from me) I was cold! He said although he loved me so much, he would walk away, as he cannot be in relationship where he gets nothing back. It really woke me up! I had my barrier up & wasnt letting him in. I shed alot of tears & from then on we have remained very stable/happy/loving couple. I always lok back on that holiday as a "make or break us".

Back to the TOXIC MUM thing again.
When it was the 2nd anniversary of my baby's death, (was with my DH/then DP) I was still feeling the raw feeling of it. My mum never phoned or text me to offer her thoughts etc. When it got to around 11pm that night & she still hadnt been in touch, I decided to email her & tell her exactly how I felt & how let down I felt by her when she fell out with me after loosing the baby.
My mum has always harped on about how vulnerable she was & thats why she always had my arsehole of a brother keep coming to & fro & abusing her etc. So I asked her how vulnerable she thought i was when I lost the baby & thats why I had taken my brother in, but she fell out with me because I did what she normally does.
I never received a reply from her & she has never mentioned it either. But she did see my DH the next day & said to him that she never replied as she didnt want to argue.WTF! She obviously thought she was still in the right for doing what she did.
But there are so many other things she has done/said, like there are I suppose with you ladies (you said so Ally90) It pops up & grabs you!
When I was 20 I wrote my life story!
It read 1973-1993, but I never really finished it. But I wrote it because I had fell out with her & felt all this hatred & it just flowed along on the page.
As we are getting on at the moment I just feel that I dont know when the right time would be to do/say anything. Im not making exuses either, but we do really get on ok, you would have no idea that I have this resentment towards her if you were to see us together. I can talk to her about alot of things, she only lives 5 mins away from me too, plus I have a younger sister who is 12. A 21 year gap between us! I also have that horrible feeling of history repeating itself with her too, as I know she goes through what i did at times, as my mum is bringing her up single handed again.

Anyway must let someone else get a word in now, hope this thread carries on, its doing me good getting it out of my system.

Well done to all of you who have supported each other on here, you're all marvelous!

[MusicLover]

foxinsocks: in reply to your Qu..I have had a few sessions of counseling after loosing my baby, but found it hard at that time as I was on my own with DS (still a baby) & couldnt get anyone to look after him at that time. When I was there I genrally spoke about my childhood etc, rather than the loss of my baby!
I went again a few years later (after meeting DH), he encouraged me to go regarding the 'sexual abuse' I suffered. I only did 1 one hour session as I was paying for that, & couldnt really afford it at the time.

Do you think I still need to have counciling?
Does it really help? As I feel like Im only gettin off my chest here, what I would if I was to see anyone professional. IYSWIM

[sandcastlesforanaussiexmas]

Hi guys, wow this is growing isn't it!


Just want to let you know (incase you see I have been posting elsewhere but not here) that I had some bad news this am (my time)Here so I am feeling very low & am just trying to keep things light. I am not ignoring you. I will catch up with you all tomorrow (again, my time) so you should wake up to my post!

[MusicLover]

oh sandcastles, sandcastles ((((big big hug)))

I have left a post on that thread for you.

(((hugs for your niece too))))

I have been there, I sympathise with everyone involved, its truely aggonising.
The hard thing is though & she may experience it or not...when people avoid you! They just dont know what to say, or how to approach you.
I had to accept that a few of my friends/family avoided coming to see me for quite a long time-merely because they had recently had baby girls.
As much as it hurt I had to understand it from their point of view.

Hope you all get through this sandcastles

((more hugs)))

[Pages]

So sorry Sandcastles, I have lost 3 but not as late as 23 weeks, bloody awful. That feeling the first time you spot some blood... and then it is gone again for a few days and then there it is again, and then the cramps. I don't think it's something you ever forget. Your poor niece. If it was her first please reassure her that it has no bearing on her ability to have children.

Musiclover, so glad this thread is helping you and so glad you have a lovely DH after all you have been through and that DS1 has a lovely stepdad - you deserve lots of happiness and I bet your kids love you to bits and are "little smashers". (!! My DH refers to our two as "the little smashers")

[sandcastlesforanaussiexmas]

pages, thank you for sharing your experience. she did get the bleeds, but didn't tell her mum! But the hosp said it wouldn't have mad a diff, not considering the bleed she had while at the hosp. i

It was her first.

[Pages]

In my experience there is absolutely nothing you can do except wait it out and see if the bleeding gets worse, so I agree that it wouldn't have made any difference. I tried lying down and not moving, but it only seemed to temporarily delay the inevitable. Awfully sad but no reason why it should happen again.

[sandcastlesforanaussiexmas]

Pages, I know. Awful, but nothing could be done.

[XMASisFULLofFestiveMusicLovers]

Hi Pages,
How you feeling today?

Cant stop thinking about sandcastles neice really.

Hope you are staying strong in your thoughts though, have been thiking of you too, & all others who posted on here.

We will stick together & have our Toxix Mum thread bombarded with empathy.

[Pages]

I am really good thanks, Musiclover. I was thinking today we should make this thread into a book and call it "But we took you to Stately Homes!". Lol at that, Sandcastles. Suddenly started giggling to myself at work when I thought about it. I am sure my mum thinks because she did all that sort of stuff with me too that justifies everything...

I really feel like I have turned a corner in the last week or two. I do think about my mum every day but it is often half way through the morning now instead of the first thing that hits me when I wake up, and it is also with a much more detached feeling. The "pangs" seem to have stopped and I can now think about the whole thing in a calm way. I was trying to figure out the exact point this change happened, it really was quite a sudden realisation, and it was somwhere between my last counselling session which was nearly two weeks ago and when I started to re-read "Toxic Parents". I think the book has really really helped and I would strongly recommend it Musiclover, I think it was when I read the bit about how we - if we and our feelings and emotions are ignored as children - learn to define ourselves by how our mother/parents treat us and that made so much sense to me.

I think I am really on the road to self-definition at last and therefore my mum's thoughts about me have less importance for me. I really can see that it is her trying to project onto me so that she can control me, and I think that the moment I realised that on a feeling level, not just an intellectual level, she kind of "shrank" - like the Wicked Witch of the West in the Wizard of Oz "I'm melting, melting!!!!" Not that I really think she is wicked or want her to melt but you get the picture...

Btw, musiclover, there are some really good exercises in the book especially for victims of sexual abuse.

[XMASisFULLofFestiveMusicLovers]

Wow Pages, must get that book.

Will post again tomorrow as DS around & would rather reply to you in private IYSWIM

xxx