Friendship issues over children and infertility - how can I try to keep it ok?

[SallyStarbuck]

I'm just at a bit of a loss how to try and keep this friendship going, how to handle it on a day by day basis, and wondered if anyone had any good advice.

My oldest friend is sadly looking likely to not be able to have biological children. They are in the middle of several rounds of IVF. They are unsure if they want to foster or adopt.

I have one DC. We are aiming to try for another very soon, as there is already quite a large age gap and I'm in my mid-thirties.

This is already causing serious issues, which is no surprise at all. She has recently been hugely and bravely honest about how she feels, and how she feels around people with DC. I admire her immensely for sharing this with me, and I have told her that I wouldn't care if she didn't contact me for years because it was too hard - I'll still be her friend, and I'll still be here when she needs me.

It's been complicated by us both moving in recent years so we're a long way apart and can't see each other often at all. It's been six months now. Due to the my job, my DH's job and her job it's almost impossible to get everyone's diary agreeing so I have childcare and can go to hers (far enough away that one of us would need to stay overnight). She used to come and stay at mine, but that is understandably off the cards as my young DC is here and she finds the idea of that too difficult at the moment.

Our calls have dropped off, our texts and emails too. She has told me she feels too awkward - if I don't mention anything about DD she knows I am deliberately avoiding that topic, and that makes her feel terrible as if I am fudging and lying about my life, but equally she finds it too upsetting at the moment to hear about other people's children.

I want to support her, desperately, but I know simply by having a child and by fortunately not having had any fertility issues that there is little I can do. I try texting about random, normal things in life but then feel as though I am ignoring this enormous issue in her life and that must be hurtful - but then if I ask, I feel like I'm bringing it up all the time when she might want to forget it.

I know this sounds a bit "me, me, me" when this situation clearly is not, but I'm just at a loss how to carry on. Things are strained. She texted the other day with a very clear "tell me how things are with you, not with me" and so I did, and her reply was very short, so she is clearly uncomfortable.

My biggest fear is that our planned time TTC may very well coincide with her last round of IVF, and how can I tell her that I am expecting if I do fall pregnant?

I just wondered if anyone had any wise words? I want to be there for her and help her but I don't know what to do. I feel as though everything I do will be the wrong choice, as I know I can't even begin to understand how she is feeling and what she is going through.

Sorry this is rather waffly

Except she's not bucket she's asked the op about her life, knowing that would bring up he subject of family and been clipped in her reply. As I said, I wouldn't like someone in my life that wasn't happy for me when things were good.

I've never understood why others can be so shitty to others. I've suffered a shit load of mc, no idea why, it just happened. Perhaps it was for the best. I have 1 dc maybe that's how it's supposed to be be for me.

Not once have I ever begrudged anyone else having something that I can't have, I LIKE to see others happy, even if and when I'm not. It shows me that even if I'm having a crap time, that life is still worth living because others are happy. Not even when I was at my lowest when almost terminally depressed did I resent the happiness of others, even strangers, as it showed me that life wasn't all bad.

Maybe I'm weird, but seeing others happy, helps me feel happier somehow.

Does anyone have advice for OP how to tell her friend when she falls PG again? I'm such a coward I'd probably end up not telling her at all.

But Hissy you're projecting and extrapolating. You've no idea if the OPs friend "resents" the OP or that her clipped responses are something entirely different. But you've decided the OPs friend is resentful.

Sadly I know a very great deal about infertility. In the hundreds of women ive spoken to, I've never come across resentmemt for other people's children and happiness. Just a lot of sadness and misery and the feeling that ones' family and friends with children simply don't get it. It changes friendships but it really isn't anyone's fault.

Just a text. 'I wanted to let you know that I am pregnant. I do understand this might be hard to hear with what you're going through. Hope to hear from you soon x'

Something like that.

In fact anything goes really.

My friends know my situation; I get included on the round robin text/email announcement with scan pic like everyone else. Works for me. It means I can just send the expected 'congratulations' etc and process things in my own time.

Lljkk I think she should tell her herself, ideally by email or text so she has chance to react and compose herself. Then follow up with a breezy call, under no circumstances play it down or apologise - that's well meaning but insulting.

There is plenty of evidence to suggest the ops 'friend' resents the op for having ha d children, no overnights, clipped/short replies despite being asked specifically how life was, knowing that the elephant is going to be dragged out again.

I'm not projecting a thing, I think the op will have to accept that the issue is the 'friend's' and that she has done nothing "wrong", and to carry on with her life, her family and friends. She's offered to be there for her friend, if that's not acceptable, then there is nothing that the op can or should do. I don't understand people who get nasty, upset or resentful of the success/happiness/contentment of others to the point of actually making the other person feel guilty for living their life the way they do, but I recognise that there are individuals who behave this way. I wouldn't have them as friends of mine.

Blimey, this kicked off a lot

I do firmly believe that friendships are swings and roundabouts and sometimes one friend needs more support, and sometimes other friends need more support. When I say I don't 'need' my friend right now it's not because I don't want help from her, its because things are going fine at the moment and I don't need help or support from anyone.

I don't feel like she resents me. When she asked how I was she did ask how me, DH and DD were, so I replied with what I thought was quite a tactful text, nothing too detailed but said I was fine, DH was doing a new job, DD had started at a new nursery. However, yes, her reply text was a surprise as it was quite abrupt, which is what prompted me to start this thread. It made me wonder if I was doing something wrong, or if this is the start of the distancing that I am dreading but can sort of see on the horizon.

I know this isn't about me - which is why I feel so wary of asking her what she would like me to do, or explaining how I feel. But this is an old, good friend so it is sad on many levels. Sad that she is going through this, sad that she is hurting, but, yes, sad too that I feel like I am losing a friend.

Thank you for the advice about how to tell her if I do fall pg soon. I will tell her in an email or text and give her the space to reply to me when she wants to.

It's okay to be sad but you may have to accept that the friendship isn't going to recover.

I am unable to have children any time soon due to serious medical issues. I have withdrawn from some friendships because it is just too hard being confronted with the life I wish I was living and thought I would live. I didn't choose that and it isn't anyone's fault.

I agree with your sentiment patience, being treated normally should be the best way for op to proceed.

I don't know about you, but I'd hate to be excluded from the communication chain, would you rather be ignored and excluded from the round robins? And hear about it back handed?

Of course one would feel privately pensive and sensitive, and that is totally to be expected and is completely normal, but there is the space as you say to work things through and communicate congrats etc in time.

I think the op is being super considerate, but there comes a point where it's really too much and she shouldn't feel guilty for living

Bucketandshpade - you should get your eyes tested. I didnt call the OP's friend a "fucking bitch" as you put it.

Here's what I wrote:

"Again, you are NOT the cause of her infertility - if she has a problem with your life centering around your DCs, then you'd be better off without such a self righteous bitch. Because thats exactly what she fucking is."

My "vitriol" is no worse than yours and I am very happy thank you, contrary to your misguided "know-it-all-holier-than-thou" ignorance. Take up reading lessons before taking aim and overtly lying about what I didn't write.

Cheers.

So you've referred to her as a self-righteous bitch, and used "fucking" about her later in the paragraph. You're right. My mistake.

I can only wonder as to why a friend backing away from a situation she finds painful, riles you so much.

And why my pointing out the deeply unpleasant and aggressive tone of your posts indicating your discomfort at being told that you might be wrong, upsets you so much too.

What should the OP's friend do?

In fact I wonder if you personally DID treat somebody in real life like this, and she called you on it, hence this clearly pressing some buttons for you? Perhaps something you might reflect on.

In fact I've just read back carefully and your use of IVF-martyr makes me think that actually, you might be going through something similarly painful and your posts are a reaction to it. If that's the case I really do wish you well. It's a hard hard road.

And surely no one would use such a terrible terrible phrase if they weren't very upset. Surely no one is so hurtful and ignorant.

Hope you're ok

Bucketandshpade - classy entertainment for me based on your judgemental views about me. Sure, I pointed out your wrongs, but you're assertion that I am somehow "riled" is indeed jovial for me and of course, not for the first time either - wrong too :)

Encore!

As to the OP's pseudo-friend, seriously, who gives a hoot? Plenty of people out there that have worse to deal with than IVF. As I mentioned before, in cases - it could be the difference between life/death. IVF issues don't come anywhere close to that.

Pity the OP's pseudo-friend cant see beyond that and how others have to live. Pseudo-friend is all "look at me me me". But anyway....

And please, stop over-thinking about me Bucketandshpade - I'm not going through anything similar et al.

You seem to have an obsession at delving into what I wrote and extracting things that simply aren't there. I feel sorry for you. But hey, who am I to stop you. Your keyboard - do as you will. Enjoy your day. Cheers.

I've looked at your previous posts on other threads (the ones that haven't been deleted) and you are similarly aggressive and angry on them too. I hope you find peace.

Sally I'm not sure how this thread managed to kick off in such a big way
But I would agree with you re friendships are swings and roundabouts.

At the moment, it seems that you are not sure how to proceed and what to for the best.
You idea to write a letter and to ask her, looks to me to be the best one. But I also think that you might be lossing a close friend :( There isn't a lot you can do though. A bit like you slowly lose touch with very close friends when you move far away.

I hope you will find a way to keep the friendship going and a way to support her if/wheh she realises that she never be a mum.

I also think some of you have compassion the size of a peanut if that.

It's impossible to establish some sort of hierarchy in suffering. One person might never recover from losing a DH when another will be delighted by a newly found freedom.
Some women will never recover from not having children. They might spend 10~15 years desperately doing anything and everything to get pregnant. The pain they experience is HUGE.
Instead of telling them they aren't allowed to feel like this, maybe just acknowledging it would be nice. Because they are mourning a baby that was never to be the same way that others might mourn a partner.
Whether you think its something worth being sad/in pain about or not have no bearing as to how they feel.

As to the OP's pseudo-friend, seriously, who gives a hoot?

Umm, me, actually. I give a hoot.

Thank you to everyone who has given me some really good advice and to those that have shared their stories.

It's difficult knowing that my oldest friendship might not survive because of this. It feels like... I don't know, an extra loss? Not that I'm implying I'm the most amazing friend ever or anything like that, just that these difficulties might mean we both lose a friend of 25 years who has been there from primary school

I hope you don't lose your friend OP.

Hopefully your friend will get her family and things will get back on track. Or with time she will heal.

You're doing your best and she is lucky to have a caring friend. I do reiterate though, don't become her emotional punch bag (it doesn't sound like she is trying to use you as one, more that she is snippy and backing off).

Ignore Suck, she's a strange one...

OP - why do you give a hoot when she sends you abrupt texts to your honest replies?

Why do you walk on eggshells for someone who hasnt the heart to be happy for you? She's clearly jealous of what you have - but is NOT your fault she is having to go through IVF - so why is she guilt tripping on you?

Only advice I'll give you is to stay well away from her till she grows the fuck up or has no more toys to throw out her pram. She sounds like a delirious nightmare and one that you could do without.

You say things are going fine you etc - and Im pleased for that - but why sour it with a pseudo-friend whose friendship is not only more trouble than its worth and its you that has to be the one to "give" while she take-take-takes all the time?

If you cant discern between that, you have bigger problems than your two-faced whinging pseudo-friend...

SallyStarbuck - give it time.

I have just counted the friends I have who have been through infertility issues (and I'm one of those people who got pregnant first cycle each time we tried, so I seriously have No. Idea. what those friends have gone through).

One found it pretty difficult while the children were in the baby phase. As soon as the children were old enough to be interesting and responsive, she was right in there, being engaged with them and is now very close to them. It was the lack of baby that was hard for her, rather than the lack of child, if you see what I mean.

One found it agonising. We had been very close. She did not answer messages, christmas cards, emails. Luckily, I found her on facebook soon after joining it, and since I didn't post about my children on facebook when they were little, that became a safe space for us to interact, based on our shared interests. We still haven't met again, but are in close touch now. I reckon we were distant for about 5 years (and frankly, I have people who were close friends pre-children who I haven't seen for years and years because that's what happens when we scatter to the four winds and have families to juggle, so I don't take that as a signal of this childless friend being a bad friend).

One never mentioned how hard she found it, but was always delighted to meet the children, always asked after them. When she went through miscarriages and then fertility treatment, she reached out for support, and we were in very very close touch, right through that and the successful pregnancy that ensued. She had a really healthy attitude to the whole thing - she was hoping for a child of her own, but managed to retain a real sense of perspective throughout

Sally, thank you for your kind congrats. I'm over the moon! Becoming a mum to my darling baby son was magical... I'm sorry that the comments don't seem to have much to do with your original question anymore... personally, I think the idea of writing a letter to your friend telling her you're there for her "no matter what" would be absolutely lovely. IVF, given the powerful drugs administered, really does mess with your mind, not to mention your hormones. Everyone seems to be discounting the possibility that your friend could succeed, which would be great!!! You sound like a very dear friend to her and I'm willing to bet she appreciates knowing how much you care, even if she is in a tough spot emotionally right now.

You sound lovely, OP, and respect for staying measured in the face of the black and white thinkers on this thread.

In your position I wouldn't force the friendship, but stay in touch and see how it pans out. I reckon it will all work out in the end.