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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

I made a good/bad list. Help me decide

84 replies

WhatToDoNow001 · 12/06/2015 04:28

So I've name changed for this so I can be honest and even hide away from the truth if I need to ;)

Here is my list, what would you do?

Negative:

He has hit me
He has raped me
We rarely have sex
He spoilt our holiday
He can't contribute towards the house financially
He doesn't seem very interested in getting married and progressing the relationship
He says he wants kids, but doesn't speak about how we might get there
He is rough with me when we have sex
He misunderstands my sexual wants
Sex is rarely exciting
He is a terrible drunk

Positive:

He is usually kind (when sober)
He is usually caring (when sober)
He is really intelligent
He has a lovely face
He puts me first (when sober)
He is financially generous
He would be distraught if we spilt up
He loves me (when sober)
He leans on me
We have fun and a laugh (when sober)
He is my best friend

Should I just give up drinking and expect he does the same? FWIW I enjoy a drink and don't get lairy with anyone. If I make this relationship work I will need to be tee total so that he can be as well. What would you do?

OP posts:
038THETA · 12/06/2015 09:24

are you for real OPHmm

CharlotteCollins · 12/06/2015 09:35

If an abusive man gives up alcohol, you have a sober abuser. Maybe he won't be abusive in a way you recognise until further down the line (married with kids, say - much harder to walk away then), but he has shown you what he is capable of. Alcohol does not change personalities.

Abusers often use alcohol as permission to do something that on some level they feel uncomfortable about. The more it happens, though, the more they suppress the discomfort... And then they start doing it sober, too.

I so wish I'd had MN when I was about to get married... and my list would have had nothing so extreme as yours.

It is hard to leave when you're planning a wedding. It will take all your strength and you will need rl support if you can get it. Just imagine how much harder it would be if you were married, or had a baby.

The negative "he doesn't want to get married" is a definite positive. Rewrite the whole thing with a new title "Reasons this relationship is over" and start planning how to end it.

CharlotteCollins · 12/06/2015 09:44

The fact that day to day everything feels normal does make it hard for you to see this for what it is. If there are occasional black times though, they are going to get more frequent, not less, in the future.

The important thing to realise is that deep down he believes hitting and raping are justified. He believes he had a reason for then and if he feels at all bad about them, he blames you for it.

How much shit would you be prepared to accept in a cup of coffee? If it was 99% lovely coffee and only a tiny bit of shit... Would that be OK?

GoldfishCrackers · 12/06/2015 09:47

Oh Whattodo your op is really really shocking. I don't know what has brought you to accept such an awful awful relationship.

Imagine for a minute that this man committed those crimes against someone else. Imagine that you learned he was a rapist, who had raped and hit a woman. What would you think of him? What would you think of the woman?

This can't go on. You deserve so much better. Call Womens aid for starters.

PatriciaHolm · 12/06/2015 09:57

What would I do?

Run like the wind and never look back. He's an abuser, and the drink is just an excuse; he isn't magically going to be a great partner if you give up alcohol. He is an abuser, that's what he is, Get out before he does you some serious harm.

twistletonsmythe · 12/06/2015 09:57

there is not one positive behaviour that can cancel out 1 & 2.

Please report him to the police, get him out of your home now and then work on yourself as to why you think this 'relationship' is something you think is acceptable.

ravenmum · 12/06/2015 09:58

Let me change the headings.

Criminal activities which would lead to long-term incarceration:
He has hit me
He has raped me

Frightening:
He is rough with me when we have sex
He misunderstands my sexual wants
He is a terrible drunk

Incompatible wishes:
He doesn't seem very interested in getting married and progressing the relationship
He says he wants kids, but doesn't speak about how we might get there
Sex is rarely exciting

Annoying, possibly worrying:
He spoilt our holiday
He can't contribute towards the house financially
He leans on me

The least you should expect from a relationship:
He would be distraught if we spilt up
He is my best friend
He is usually kind (when sober)
He is usually caring (when sober)
He puts me first (when sober)
He loves me (when sober)
We have fun and a laugh (when sober)

A matter of taste:
He is financially generous
He is really intelligent
He has a lovely face

Positive, considering he is a rapist:
We rarely have sex

Custardmiteofglut · 12/06/2015 10:01

Morning what. I hope you've got some rest.

Like other posters I can't get past 1 & 2 on your negative list. Regardless of how nice he is when sober, he's already committed crimes against you and would (will?) do it again without a second thought.

You are worth much more than that. You are currently his victim, not his partner. You CAN be strong and brilliant on your own.

Speak to someone in RL - Women's Aid, Rape Crisis or just a trusted friend.

popalot · 12/06/2015 10:11

I'm sorry, but he doesn't love you. If you love someone, you do not rape or hit them. He is using you to fulfil his emotional needs. All the bullshit about being distraught if you split up; it would upset him that you are not fulfilling his needs.

Turn it around. Would you ever r someone? A stranger? No. Someone you know? No. Someone you love? No. No ,no, no.

So why does he? Because he doesn't love you, or care about you in the slightest. It's as simple as that. You are his carer.

I'm so sorry to be harsh, but this is the reality. It is by no means an indicator of your worth, you were picked by this man because you are probably kind and caring and would put up with a lot of it because you are sensitive and understanding. That would make you a great partner for a decent man. You are in no way unlovable in the normal way. It has been your bad luck to have met a man like this, not your fault that he has treated you this way.

iamadaftcoo · 12/06/2015 10:15

Criminal activities which would lead to long-term incarceration:
He has hit me
He has raped me

Yeah, right. Seen the conviction statistics for domestic violence and rape in this country? My stepdad is walking the streets as we speak with only a police caution.

what, you are worth more than this. Please get some help. Calling Women's Aid would be a good first step. PM me if you want to chat Flowers

038THETA · 12/06/2015 10:36

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Knittingnoodles · 12/06/2015 13:13

I didn't even bother to read the positives.

There is nothing positive which could compensate for those negatives.

His behavior is not acceptable and I don't think he will change.

He needs to go.

wallaby73 · 12/06/2015 13:20

You're seriously debating, umming /ahhing about continuing a "relationship" with your rapist? This is the worst thing i have ever read on here. Please lovely, come on xx

Laladeepsouth · 12/06/2015 13:30

Okay, let's just set the criminally violent part of his nature aside and pretend that he's not dangerous.

Even then: 1) He can't/won't contribute toward to household. 2) Your romantic physical relationship is basically non-existent.

You're not in a relationship; I don't know what you're in -- but it's not a relationship.

Laladeepsouth · 12/06/2015 13:32

"toward the household" not "toward to . . ." Too horrified at OP's situation to preview, I guess.

Whattonamemyselfnow · 12/06/2015 14:02

Leave. You are incredibly lucky you don't have children with him. You are incredibly lucky you aren't married. Please leave

KnitFastDieWarm · 12/06/2015 14:10

I want this thread to be a wind up Sad

OP, do you honestly believe that the best you deserve is a a man of whom you can say:

He has hit me
He has raped me

Where is your sense of self preservation? That is NOT ok and there is NOTHING positive about him that can justify staying with him if he is capable of that kind of criminal, violent behaviour.

It breaks my heart to read these kind of threads again and again.

KnitFastDieWarm · 12/06/2015 14:15

Oh and as for this:

FWIW he has only ever been abusive after drinking. Perhaps if we gave it up altogether we would be fine?

Someone who is horrible and violent when drunk is a horrible violent person who feels free to unleash their full nastiness after a drink. Nice people do not turn into monsters after a drink.

How do I know this? Because my mother is an alcoholic. She is also a kind, sweet, gentle person and I HATE seeing 'but the alcohol made them do it' wheeled out as an excuse for someone being a shit Sad

Original poster
WhatToDoNow001 · 13/06/2015 01:58

I'm still here. So is he so I can't say much. Thanks for everyone who cared so much about me to state their feelings. It's Friday and he just woke up and shouted 'Cunt' at Sam Smith singing and smashed a glass. I think I need to leave this guy but it won't be straight forward.

OP posts:
Original poster
WhatToDoNow001 · 13/06/2015 02:04

I didn't expect this thread to get so many messages considering I signed off so early and went to bed. Everyone's thoughts have been hard to read but have made me think a lot. I'm a fucking mug but I'm not ready to fall yet.

OP posts:
RandomFriend · 13/06/2015 02:16

I started to ready you list. Just for number 1, he has to go.

For tonight, try to get some sleep. In the morning get some real life support to work out how you can get him out of your house. There is nothing that could make up for either 1 or 2 on your list.

You get him out of your house and then he can get himself sober. If he wants to.

Original poster
WhatToDoNow001 · 13/06/2015 02:43

I just wrote a message and it was lost, don't know why. Thanks everyone. Don't have the energy to say everything again but I am getting strength from what people are posting. He just fell off his chair drunk so I will get in bed now and not have to feel false til the morning. Couldn't look at everyone's replies today as he was around me constantly. Hopefully will get a bit of time tomorrow to read and reply. Thanks all x

OP posts:
Butterflywings168 · 13/06/2015 04:26

Oh honey Thanks
Glad you have listened to everyone. I hope you get some sleep.
As pps have said, alcohol isn't an excuse for his abusive behaviour. IF he was to really commit to changing - get sober, and get counselling - then maybe, just maybe, it could work out between you. But he needs to go and do that by himself. Can you tell him you need a break for x (months, not weeks) and will reconsider IF he is then sober, a better person and VERY apologetic. And IF you wish. If he has the great qualities you say he does, he can do this...if not...you can find someone better.
If you think you also have an alcohol issue, and it's not unusual for both parties to, then you should definitely get help for it. But you haven't been violent towards him under the influence

GoatsDoRoam · 13/06/2015 06:52

Glad to hear that you have realised you should leave. That is a huge step - well done! Flowers

You're right that leaving him will not be straightforward. He won't want to leave - why would he? He's got it made, living in your house, with a wonderful woman to wipe his feet on.

I think you should speak to your local police. Tell them that you live with a violent man, and that you are going to leave him. They know that this means you are in a dangerous position for a while.

I did, when I was in a similar situation. What happened is that the police were present (patrol car waiting outside) at the time and place when I told him it was over. They also flagged my address and phone number so that they knew to react quickly if I called or if anything was reported at my address, and they gave me a number that went directly to the patrol car dispatching. I did have to use it once when he came to my house and wouldn't leave.

I also had a non-molestation order, which I think would help you too. Phone Women's Aid on 0808 2000 247 and ask them for step-by-step advice on how to involve the police and courts for protection.

Getting him out of your house is going to be the tricky one. Any chance that you could have a staged "emotional crisis" and tell him that you need some time apart while you get yourself together? Make it your fault, not his, iyswim. This type of man is all too willing to see you weak and "the problem". Again, in my case this is the ploy that got him out of the house: he was fully expecting it to last only a month, while I "fixed" myself in order to be a better Stepford wife to him. Once he was out of the house, i changed the locks and involved the police and courts. It was a difficult period, but it worked.

I wish you all sorts of strength.

JimmyChoosChimichanga · 13/06/2015 08:13

The fact that you put, 'he leans on me' as a positive shows that you are in a destructive frame of mind. You may benefit from some counselling in this respect. I would find someone leaning on me a distinct negative. As for all the rest. There in nothing that could outweigh your negative list, even 71m rollover on the lotto isn't going to blott that lot out. Why would you even consider staying with this bloke would be a mystery to me. Leave and let him enhance the life of some other poor sod for five minutes