Parent with undiagnosed AS (long)

[icecreamsandwich]

I'm a bit wary of posting this. I know there are lots of posters who have children with ASD or Aspergers, and I'd like to be clear that I'm not somehow attacking people who have these diagnoses, or lacking in understanding of them. There is almost nothing out there for NT children of AS parents, only a Wordpress blog that seems to have closed, and I don't have anyone else to talk to about this. I don't know anyone else in this situation.

My parents were abusive and as an adult I eventually went NC with them for the sake of my mental health. I do not think I am just clutching at straws trying to explain my childhood; I would bet my kidney that my father has undiagnosed AS or ASD. I always used to think: it's like he is autistic. I just never made the leap to thinking he actually was, because I suppose I assumed someone would have picked it up.

I'm absolutely not saying having an autism spectrum disorder means you are going to be abusive or treat other people badly; however I do think the way it manifested in my father has been very damaging for me.

The main symptoms/traits he seems to have are:

• Mind blindness / lack of theory of mind. He has never been able to grasp that anyone else has different thoughts or feelings to him. When I was a child he sometimes looked after me alone and would just give me toast instead of a proper dinner because he was happy with that. He couldn't comprehend that I might want something different.

• He thinks if something upsets or confuses him everyone else will feel the same. And that if not, ditto.

• Not understanding how I could know things he didn't. Often asking how I knew about things that are common knowledge.

• Repeating the same stories and jokes over and over. It's as if he'd learn a joke was funny and tell it over and over expecting it to have the same effect. Some of these stories reflect very badly on him but he doesn't see this.

• Speaking to people in an incredibly patronising way and not understanding why they take offence. He was in hospital for a while a few years ago and several nurses with non-UK accents thought he was being racist as he kept asking them to repeat what they said as they weren't speaking clearly; he is actually a bit hard of hearing (which should have been better flagged up to changing staff) but it sounded like he was saying they weren't speaking English properly. He understood why they thought he was racist, and he didn't mean to be, but he kept doing it, even though he was given suggestions of better ways to say it.

• He has also been known to ask people if they have ever heard the phrase "that's not rocket science", and be confused and annoyed when they think he's being patronising.

• Not understanding what is and isn't an appropriate topic of conversation, eg wanting to talk about finance at a child's birthday party.

• Not understanding sarcasm, hints or social cues. Not understanding why some things might be embarrassing. Behaving in absolutely socially excruciating ways.

• Not understanding teenagers. If ever I slammed a door he would ask, genuinely perplexed, why I was trying to damage the house.

• Over-attachment to objects. He was obsessed with safety and would unplug all electrical appliances at night. But they had a leaky kettle that leaked boiling water on my hand, resulting in hospital treatment, and he wouldn't get rid of the kettle and got angry when he was asked to. He also wouldn't get rid of a TV that was a fire risk.

• Meltdowns. I don't know how else to describe them. The worst one was when I took the video out of the video player without asking and the counter reset.

• Asking unknown callers "how did you get this number" and grilling them to a ridiculous degree. My uni housemate once phoned my parents' house by accident instead of my mobile; she was trying to get hold of me to say she was going to hospital with an injured back. My dad spent ages asking questions about how she got this number and expressed no concern about her injury.

• Worked in a field with a very high proportion of people with autism. Was made redundant and never got another job as he had no practical, social or interpersonal skills.

Before I went NC, I tried mentioning the possibility of AS to my mother and sibling. My mother was extremely resistant to the idea at first, then said it might be worth looking into. My sibling said: that's just OCD (no, he has OCD but it doesn't explain everything else) and wouldn't it have been picked up (not necessarily!) and what's the point in a diagnosis anyway, what difference would it make.

I didn't mention it to my dad, because I have long since given up trying to have a relationship with him; not because I am some heartless cow but because he is so unpleasant and angry and difficult that I had to withdraw.

My dad did some awful things to me in my childhood, which I'm not going into because it's possible there's enough detail here to out me; suffice to say there was abuse, and I went NC partly because of that. Maybe I'm just desperately searching for answers as to why my parents seemed to love me and think well of me yet treated me very badly without seeming to realise that they were.

I realise that's the case with a lot of abusive parents who don't have AS, but...

My mother, I'm not sure about. She seems to have some traits of narcissism, and also some autistic ones; I just don't know. I have had to bow out of the whole thing, not because I am horrible and selfish but because their behaviour was so toxic and damaging that I was on the verge of a breakdown.

My sibling is the golden child and is very invested in the whole family being good and perfect; I am pretty much NC with them too as they were very unsupportive and unhelpful about the issues I was having. They originally suggested I go NC but then freaked out when I did and turned flying monkey on me. They also did some other shitty things including telling other family members I was in therapy when I had made it clear this was confidential.

Anyway, as it stands I am NC. I think my father has AS; I think he would have had a much better life, as would his family, if this had been picked up. I don't know what can be done now though. I've thought about writing to him and suggesting he try to get diagnosed; I don't feel able to phone him because I'm terrified of the verbal abuse I'm likely to get. I don't know if it's something that could be dealt with in an anonymous safeguarding referral, as he has contact with my sibling's children. I'm not saying undiagnosed AS is automatically a safeguarding issue, but in this case it may be.

I suppose I have a fantasy in which he gets a diagnosis, has autism-informed counselling through the NAS and actually changes. I'm sure he would be happier and less frustrated. But that's not going to happen, is it? I feel like I am the only one who sees this. It is driving me a little mad.

I don't think I am jumping too quickly to AS. I have thought for years that he seems to be autistic. I don't think I am attributing traits of narcissism to AS; it's quite hard to discuss it with anyone as people sometimes say I'm just looking for excuses for him being an asshole, and I don't think that is what I'm doing.

Please don't tell me how unfair I'm being not speaking to him. He has done some fucking awful things in the past that I haven't detailed here and it's not a failure of understanding on my part. But I feel guilty knowing that he probably has this, and that nobody is doing anything to help him get diagnosed, and I don't know what I could do about it. I could write to his GP, but he has had the same GP for years who has failed to pick this up and has missed other very serious things in the past but my dad won't change GP as he can't handle change.

I am aware of the Stately Homes thread and post on there sometimes (under my usual name, have name changed for this) but am not sure people who know about AS would look on there.

Any advice would be welcome but please don't criticise me for going NC.

claire

So do other people's fathers send them and their DCs birthday cards?

My (undiagnosed) asd df has never sent me or DCs one, often not even giving any of us a gift when he is invited over for Xmas but I literally never thought anything more of that until you have brought it up on this thread!!

My DM is even more asd than him and I'm an only DC so now I'm thinking 'what other things do I not realise aren't 'normal' due to not being around many nt people in my childhood'.

Wow this has opened a huge can of worms for me.

Athena - he lives abroad and separate from my Mum. In the olden days she would cover for him by signing from both. I only realised the anomaly when I was feeling a bit cross with DH's dad (divorced and living separate from his mum) for only sending a 'moonpig' card and / or a cheque for the kids for their birthdays (i didn't want lots of money, I was thinking a bit of time and effort would be nice) and I suddenly realised that I had literally no expectation of my Dad doing the same, even though to all intents and purposes he could send an email or some such as he lives separately from my Mum. I read all these threads about people going no contact with parents and I think how I am practically no contact with my dad by accident really...I only see him when he visits Mum, no phone or email contact in between. Once to twice a year.

This thread has been such a salve to me. I am so grateful to everyone who has posted.

clairewitch I'm really struck by what you say about your son not initiating contact. My dad didn't either. I don't think my mum is emotionally intelligent, sadly; her own mother is a raving narcissist and she spent years excusing and minimising things. I don't think she has had a happy life with him.

I sometimes wonder if the 1950s male traits - having a study where they are not to be disturbed, or owning a shed to retreat into, or focusing on the newspaper in the morning when the house is in a frenzy of getting to school, or not bothering with social niceties like birthday cards, masked a lot of symptoms.

This is a very good point!

My dad also never sent me a birthday card or bought me a gift that wasn't something HE would want (except once when he bought me a toy Snoopy after I kidnapped my brother's and was then sick on it).

I don't know if my dad understands that I have gone NC; it is entirely possible that my mother has not told him the truth and he just thinks I am busy. It would be completely like her to just act like nothing is wrong.

I am actually seriously thinking about writing him a letter. I know I'm not responsible for him, but I do have a lot of guilt. (I can't email because he doesn't have an email address or a computer.) I think I am going to write it in a post here, now.

Hi icecream,

re your comment:-
"I am actually seriously thinking about writing him a letter. I know I'm not responsible for him, but I do have a lot of guilt".

No to writing him a letter!!!!. And sod feeling guilty about him as well even though that is one of many damaging legacies that such toxic people like your parents leave their now adult offspring. Do you think either parent here has shown an ounce of guilt here as to how you were treated, no not a bit of it.

They have also never apologised fulsomely nor have accepted any responsibility for their actions.

I would also read up on co-dependency within relationships particularly if you feel somewhat responsible for him.

Do not write him such a letter, there is a good chance it will be used by one or both parents against you. He is not going to take any notice of it or perhaps take it at all well. You are no contact for good reason and that needs to stay in place, sending him a letter will break your own NC and put you back to square one again. Its really a retrograde step.

If you do write such a thing for goodness sake do not post it and shred it afterwards. See it as a cathartic exercise.

If I wrote my dad a letter, I think this is what I would say:

Dear Dad,

I don't know if you are aware that I have decided to stop having any contact with you or mum. I don't know what you have been told, or how much you understand. I'm not happy about having to make this decision; it's very sad for me, in fact.

Have you heard of autism? I have thought for some time that you may have this. I don't know if this has ever occurred to you. It would explain a lot of things, like the way you get really angry and frustrated at times, and the way you sometimes want to have conversations about things and don't understand when other people tell you it's not the right time to discuss it.

I don't think you have had a very happy or easy life; I know your childhood was very difficult. I don't know if you realise that the way you felt during your childhood - scared, powerless, unsafe - is how you made me feel during my childhood. I felt frightened and unsafe. I didn't feel like you loved me.

I do believe that you love me, and that you have always wanted to do your best. I do appreciate the ways in which you supported me, like paying towards my masters degree and my wedding. There have been times when you have expressed concern and caring, like when you said you didn't want me to miss my bus, or slip on icy pavements.

But a lot of the time I didn't feel like you loved me or even liked me. You used to tell me I was ungrateful and disrespectful, but I wasn't. Children automatically love their parents and want to make them happy; I was "disrespectful" because I felt unloved and not listened to, because you frightened me, because you did things to me that made me feel hurt and confused.

Like when we used to go on car journeys and you pushed your seat right back and shouted at me for "kicking" you when your seat dug into my knees. Can you imagine if you were sitting in the back of the car, and someone did that to you? It wouldn't be your fault that your knees were digging into them. You wouldn't have done it on purpose.

I think you felt very scared when you were a child and you thought that, when you grew up, you would feel different. Respected. Powerful. Being the dad would feel like that. But actually you still felt like a scared child, you had all the same feelings, and you couldn't stand it. Your children seemed to have it better than you, and they didn't seem to appreciate it, and you didn't understand why.

You didn't understand that all children argue and push boundaries and don't listen, that this is completely normal and healthy as part of their development. You also didn't understand that children need to learn to think for themselves and survive out there in the world, not just to do whatever they are told without question.

I think it is a tragedy for everyone - you, mum, [sibling], me - that nobody properly questioned your behaviour. That nobody said: this isn't normal, this isn't healthy, you can't shout at your children like this for leaving a tap dripping, this shouldn't be happening. Things were accepted and ignored and swept under the carpet when they shouldn't have been. If they hadn't been, perhaps you would have got better help.

I think you were failed when you were diagnosed with depression, because nobody thought that it might be a secondary symptom of autism; that anyone living with autism would be angry and frustrated and depressed as their family didn't seem to understand them. It must have been difficult and lonely, but it was difficult and lonely for me, too. I was scared of you. I was scared in my own home. I never felt safe as a child.

I have stopped contacting you and mum because it is necessary for my own mental wellbeing. It got too hard pretending not to have any feelings about any of this. I have no idea how much you even know. I don't know if you are aware that I tried to kill myself when I was 16 and I thought nobody cared if I lived or died. I don't know if you are aware that I had a breakdown in 2012.

I never wanted a life in which I have no parents, no childhood home to go back to, no dad to call when I need my dad, no mum to call when I need my mum. I didn't make this decision lightly; I made it to protect myself, because it was too difficult spending time with you. When you glared at me when you felt angry, I felt like I was nothing. You did that right before I walked down the aisle on my wedding day. You're not supposed to do that to your daughter before she walks down the aisle.

I have the compassion and the empathy to be able to understand that you did not choose to hurt me, that all of this just happened, that you wanted to do the best for me, that you love me, that you didn't wake up one day and decide to bully me and frighten me; I don't know if you even understand that I spent my childhood feeling bullied and frightened. I didn't know that wasn't normal. I'm not sure you did either.

Mum pretends everything is okay, and ignores problems, because she doesn't know how to do anything else. I feel sad about that. I don't know if it would help you to get a diagnosis of autism, if perhaps that would help you understand yourself better and help other people understand you. I suspect it is probably too late. Some people would say that, if you had it, it would have been picked up, but it is very common for it to be missed. The diagnosis didn't even exist when you were young.

In an ideal world, what would I want? I have never felt able to tell you how I feel, or what I want. I wish you would write me a letter (but I am too afraid to talk to you because I am convinced you will just call me ungrateful and say hurtful things to me). I wish you would tell me that you love me, that you are proud of me, that you didn't mean to hurt me, that you are sorry.

To get a diagnosis you would need to see your GP and ask for a referral. You could also call the National Autistic Society's helpline on 0808 800 4104 between 10am-4pm on weekdays (not bank holidays) although it can be hard to actually get through. If you try to do this, call 0808 800 4104 and then select Option 2 when you are given options.

I would be willing to see you in the presence of a neutral third party, such as a therapist; the National Autistic Society has people who might be helpful for this. If you are willing to do this you could write me a letter saying so and I could arrange it. I would also be willing to see mum in the presence of a neutral third party, such as a therapist. I am not willing to see either of you without someone else there.

I do not want you to come to my house. You cannot call me because I have changed my phone numbers. It is entirely possible that you are really angry with me for stopping contacting you, and you don't want to hear from me. It is also possible that you don't actually understand what has happened. I wanted to at least give you a chance to understand.

When I was little you were really kind to spiders. You taught me to rescue them carefully in a cardboard tube and not hurt them. I never understood why you were so kind to them, but not to me. I keep hoping there is a reason, like maybe you have autism, and it's not just that you didn't love me. But perhaps I will never really know.

Your daughter

Am crying now. Not sure if I should send this, or just try to let it go. Sorry it's so blardy long.

Don't know what it says about me that I don't just hate him for ruining my childhood.

Attila I appreciate what you are saying. It's just I don't even know if he knows I've gone NC. My mum may just keep telling him I am busy for all I know.

Oh my. That letter is heartbreaking ice-cream. It encompasses everything I felt too about my own childhood.

You write so fluidly and well, it's so expressive and trying so desperately to be understanding and non-judgemental, but you can hear the little girl with her squashed legs crying out from underneath the measured words.

I wouldn't send it. Not to him, anyway. I don't' think it will have any effect, unfortunately. But perhaps you could meet with your mother and show it to her, or your sister, who may understand better why you know/feel your family is the way it is?

Its still no reason to write to him. What would such a letter from you to him really achieve?. You are NC with them for good reason. For all that you know your mother never mentions you to him anyway (a likely scenario). Their opinion is not important, what matters far more is you here.

Do not keep on jumping through hoops for them. You do not need them nor their approval, not that they would ever give it to you anyway.

I have read your letter and he will really tear you apart if you send that to him. I can well understand why you have written it, sincerely I do, but sending that will bring you nothing but more emotional pain. He is not going to take any notice. Do not do that to yourself..

He is the ways he is for reasons as yet not fully determined but I think his own childhood and upbringing have an awful lot to do with how he was then and is now. His parents did him an awful lot of damage and they were likely abusive themselves. I know you want reasons why he is the way he is but you will never determine it fully. Your dad for whatever reasons as well never sought the necessary help. He may well not have thought he needed help or indeed feels he has done anything wrong here with regards to your good self.

Oh my. I really wouldn't send that letter, as I think it's very very unlikely to lead to the response you want.

icecream (((hugs)))

I'm not sure what to advice because it's so hard to know from your posts if your dad is a typical AS man from the 1950s or if he is an abuser who also happens to have AS.

I do know that if your dad is AS and nothing else AND if you want to communicate with your dad on that sort of subject, writting is the best way to do it. Much easier for them as you remove so many issues linked with face reading etc... And they have time to think what they want to say.

I haven't got relevant experience but I can see why you want to write to your father. I don't think that you should though.

Everything you write suggests to me that your father is still in the same central, dominant position in your head that he occupied within the family as you grew up. I think it is probably time to remove him gently and put yourself centre-stage. Not just in terms of your needs and wishes but also in terms of your world-view and feelings. That is not meant in any way to be a criticism.

I've had a tricky relationship with a parent, albeit in a much milder form. I've recently come to the realisation that actually, answers are less important than I thought, and I can stop asking the questions now. It is time for the difficulties of that relationship to take a back seat and not take up so much of my emotional energy. The relationship is as good as it is going to get, I've accepted my parent will never arrive at any deeper insights about how they can be to deal with for me and my siblings and it is time just to be me with that person and stop worrying what they think about that.

I am sure Dinah will agree with me that if we sent that letter to DDad, he would never speak to us again - he is 'ignorant unknowing' if you see what I mean. He doesn't know that he is different, except from being 'clever' and 'scientific'. I can see it's heartfelt and very sad, but it won't achieve any change in him. Our dad is too old now to challenge in this way. Mind you if you wanted NC maybe this won't be a problem for you? I guess I am saying, it won't make him explore whether he is autistic, it will make him think you are horrible. That would be a shame. After DS was diagnosed, Dad and I had an email exchange - actually our only ever email exchange! - (after he threw us out when DS2 was screeching at 8am and woke him up) about autism. I dropped many a huge hint about extended phenotype, wider family, DMum has even told him that DS is just like him, he now accepts that DS has autism (but puts it all down to gluten intolerance...which DS doesn't have...sigh) but still the penny didn't drop...

Thank you all for reading the letter, it means a lot to me (been crying buckets since I wrote it). Showing it to my mother would not work; she is far too out to lunch. I have tried to explain things to her in the past but she is too invested and stuck in her coping mechanisms to be able to change.

I suppose I have this fantasy that he has no idea why I've stopped talking to him, that he is upset about it, and that if I send him a letter he will understand. But you are all right, of course, it won't change anything. I am trying to give myself a free pass to check out, to not blame myself for hurting him, to completely walk away and not be responsible for trying to explain it to him even if he doesn't understand.

He did have abusive parents; very much so. The frustrating thing is he did seek help. The first time he went to the GP about his meltdowns, the doctor said oh, everyone gets angry, I blow my top at times! My mum was so traumatised by this that she repressed the memory of that doctor's appointment for years (one of the few emotionally honest things she's told me). He was later diagnosed with depression, given sleeping pills, and saw some kind of therapist or psychiatrist which didn't seem to help much.

Monstrous, re this: Everything you write suggests to me that your father is still in the same central, dominant position in your head that he occupied within the family as you grew up. I think it is probably time to remove him gently and put yourself centre-stage. Not just in terms of your needs and wishes but also in terms of your world-view and feelings. That is not meant in any way to be a criticism.

Not taking it as one. It is absolutely excellent advice. I am trying to also ignore the voice that says: but what if you just explained, maybe he doesn't understand...

claire I'm interested in the idea of 'ignorant unknowing'. I don't know if my dad realises he is 'different'; if he would want to change or would rather carry on as he is without anyone stopping him from doing that.

it won't make him explore whether he is autistic, it will make him think you are horrible.

Because that is easier for him? Because I am expecting him to think like I would, when he can't? Is it completely implausible that he would be interested in finding out? Sometimes I am tempted to just order books about it from Amazon and post them anonymously; there are some in particular that he would actually find interesting. He is from a profession where there is a high prevalence of AS/ASD (think physicist, engineer or mathematician).

When I mentioned the idea to my mum she said she would get a book or something but I don't think she ever did. I also don't understand how I turned out to be relatively empathetic, good at reading people, able to function socially... sure as heck didn't learn that from my parents.

p.s. thank you all so much for taking the time to post on this thread, it has brought me a huge amount of comfort and peace of mind and I'm very grateful.

Icecream - in many ways, I am luckier than you (although the abuse from my SF may have been similar, if more than a bit creepier).

My Dm finally separated from him 5 years ago. Since then, we've been able to talk about our amateur diagnosis of his behaviour. She finally listen and was shocked again and again by the books we gave her on bipolar and borderline personalities and realised that so many of the characteristics fitted him. (e.g. he had/has great soaring schemes and then periods where his takes to his bed for weeks)
She realises now that she was co-dependant on him and facilitated the more extreme parts of his dysfunctional personality with her 'keep calm and carry on' demeanour.

There was something so satisfying in finally being able to go "SEE!!!! We did have a fucked up childhood and you were too busy trying to hold us all together to stop and ask yourself if this man's behaviour was not pathological."

I wish you were able to do that, because there is a bit of closure in that. I think that (hideous phrase, but kind of relevant) is what you are wanting.

"There was something so satisfying in finally being able to go "SEE!!!! We did have a fucked up childhood and you were too busy trying to hold us all together to stop and ask yourself if this man's behaviour was not pathological.

I wish you were able to do that, because there is a bit of closure in that. I think that (hideous phrase, but kind of relevant) is what you are wanting."

This. Exactly this. It is not possible to say this to my mother, however, as she is still in denial. I will have to just say it to myself...

Re a comment made by clarewitchproject,

"it won't make him explore whether he is autistic, it will make him think you are horrible".

I would certainly concur and then you will get his full force of rage if he did at all bother to respond to you (which he likely would not, he would perhaps get his wife to do that).

"Because that is easier for him?"
Possibly yes

"Because I am expecting him to think like I would, when he can't?"
Yes and also unlike him as well you are more emotionally healthy.

"Is it completely implausible that he would be interested in finding out?"
No, he does not want to find out.

"Sometimes I am tempted to just order books about it from Amazon and post them anonymously; there are some in particular that he would actually find interesting".

Would not post him books anonymously; what if you got no response from doing that?. Where would that leave you?. TBH I would spend your hard earned cash on you instead rather than this individual.

The "help" he got was anything but and it was certainly ineffective. Your father and mother would have needed years of therapy to at all change and it likely would not have worked because they would have been resistant to make changes. Narcissistic people generally do not do well in therapy sessions. Your mother is of a similar bent to him, she's just as toxic as her H. They think they know more than the therapist and also think there's nothing wrong with them.

My experience with undiagnosed adults (let alone someone who will be in his 60~70s) is that even thinking about AS as a possibility is extremely hard.
Accepting that possibility means that

1- you accept your behaviour might be different from the one of others and/or that you are different
2- you will accept that you might be autistic - Now think about how people of that time usually see autism. That's an insult. That's saying they are less than/stupid/weird etc...
3- A lot of the things they are doing are 'wrong' so they probably have created some copig mechanisms to be able to deal with the fact they are at odds with others. One of them is likely to be 'I'm right, it's the rest of the world that is wrong'

It took me YEARS for DH to accept to look at AS and to start considering it could be a possibility. I know some adults who will NOT consider it, even when the S&S are clearly there and it's clearly affecting the family life. Because accpeting you are different after spending so much time 'fitting in' IS hard.
Note: for some people, it's a relief to learn about AS. They finally have their explanation as to why everything is so hard. I doubt your dad is one of them.

:(:( about the answer he got from his GP at the time.
It clearly wasn't appropriate in our terms now.
having said that, it is also likely that AS would not have been picked up in an adult nowdays either.
And some GP are very relunctant to diagnosed adults. The answer is usually 'why on earth would you wnat to have such an awful label attached to you?'

icecream you need to realise that there is VERY little available as a support for adults either to be diagnosed or after diagnosis.
You have this dream that if your dad knows then he could change and get some help.
It's a dream. Adults diagnosed with AS do not get that help. At best, they get ADs to help with the ansxiety. Very little counselling is available and if the counsellor knows little about AS, it's a waste of time.

IME, that knowledge only helped DH because I was ready to help him and 'teach' guide him and he trusted me enough to listen (and even that took a long time to establish).
That's what a pp said earlier on. Knowing she has AS, she is relying on her DH a lot. But it doesn't change the fact she has AS and therefore some limitations. It IS a disability.
Hoping that if he knows about it, then he will change (as in being able to understand your pov, will not have meltdowns etc...) is a bit like hoping that someone knowing their legs aren't working because the nerves have been danaged will be enough for them to be able to walk again.

I do understand that there's little help but I have a friend with AS who had some terrific help and counselling through the NAS that saved his marriage.

I fear this is true though:

"They think they know more than the therapist and also think there's nothing wrong with them."

I think I just want someone to acknowledge what was missed and what I had to live with (who isn't me). Cassandra syndrome, basically.

In case anyone hasn't heard of the Cassandra phenomenon - I only recently discovered the term - here's an explanation:

"Cassandra, the Greek mythological character, suffered because her capacity to predict the future was accompanied by the curse that no one believed her. She could foresee disasters, but could not convince anyone to forestall them. By analogy, family members of adults with AS experience great moral distress because they can predict calamities caused by the individual with AS, but they are not believed or validated by the very individuals to whom they turn for professional help"

Icecream - that is 'amusing' and sad, because I used to call myself the Cassandra of the family . I would be trying to tell my mum, or anyone that the wheels were falling off very slowly, but very obviously (to me) but no-one would listen.

It was only after the wheels had fallen off quite spectacularly, that I was finally able to feel…vindicated (? that sounds too much like I derived satisfaction in knowing i was right all along).

No, it sounds like you were relieved and understandably so.

I think the Cassandra definition applies to all children of toxic parents, actually...

Hi ICS,

Actually writing that letter sounds like it could be carthetic for you, it's one of things that John Bradshaw recommends in his book 'Healing the inner child' - however he doesn't recommend sending it but read it out loud and pretend your reading it to your father.

This book really really helped me when I went NC with my abusive father, it was recommended by a counsellor and is worth a look John Bradshaw Reclaiming and Championing your Inner Child