When will he man up?

[choccybear]

We have been together 8 years, it's been 5 with children. He was a gardener/roofer when we met (ex-actor) and due to having two children in quick succession, our only option childcare wise was for his to retrain as a childminder. We could not afford nursery fees for two in London. He never had a spare penny, and my wage at the time would only have covered one child's nursery fees. His work was not regular, no sick days, weeks with no income etc. Whereas I have a steady job as a teacher.

Anyway, skip a few years, we have recently relocated abroad to an International school, I am a teacher and he is a TA. Our children have full time free schooling now. However he still earns a pittance. I pay for a maid/nanny and all bills including food. Which means I never have spare cash to spend on myself, well I say never, but maybe once a month a get my nails done/buy a dress etc (all on the cheap). Basically, I have had enough of having a husband who can't provide for me. He never pays for a restaurant/bar bill and never says 'thank you' when I do.

Am I being unreasonable to want him to man up, get a career, learn to drive (I do all the driving) and provide for his wife and two children? In addition to this, he drinks heavily, avoids tidying up, cleaning up, organising anything, the list goes on! I feel like he takes me for granted. He is now 43. Old enough to think like a grown up and now shirk his responsibilities, no? If we earned an equal wage, we could go on holidays and basically not be skint a week after payday.

Of course, when I try to discuss this he talks in vague terms of applying for PGCE, post-grad course of some sort etc. next year. But this has been going on for years too.

I want someone to treat me for a change. But also, long term, I really want him to provide for his children as they grow up (still in EYFS) and have a pension or savings for his old age (which let's face, it is only 20 or so years away)

Maybe I am harsh, but at the end of the day I need to think about my future and the kids future. He abandoned acting way before I came along.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I have developed some serious health problems in the last 12 months and I have no idea how these will develop. TBH they are likely to get worse and I am worried that he will not be able to provide for the children on a TA wage, and also not as a heavy drinker.

In addition this, our life would be so much easier if we were on two proper incomes. His current income is equal to 500 quid a month (we have free accommodation and medical insurance though). He always has money for beer though, but not for school shoes, meals out, food shops etc.

He is irresponsible and useless. That has nothing to do with his career, that's just who he is. I don't think it's worth continuing with this marriage unless he fundamentally changes his attitude.

I don't think he will ever become much of an earner, and I don't see the point in giving him ultimatums, as it will only waste another year of your life. Most people get fed up with people looking for a free ride in the end. You need to work out, in a calm and rational manner, whether you get more out of being with him than you would lose if you cut him loose. Basically, is he worth what he costs you financially? He seems quite an expensive partner, and for all the talk of SAHDs being treated the same as SAHMs, you never had the choice in the matter.

Don't waste another year of your life on this OP.

With your health issues you simply don't have time.

You need to get on and sort out the divorce now.

Stress can really affect your health, and you've been carrying him for so long. You may find you feel better once he's gone.

If he were a sober diligent SAHD you would be rightly flamed. Lazy pisshead cocklodger? Bin.

An ex actor....of course he is
The driving thing would have broken me by now.

By saying I don;t understand why you married an exnonactor/gardener and expected them to become hard working and ambitious doesn't mean I think you should stay with him if he hasn't changed with the advent of children.

I think you're (and others who say people change - not often in my experience) deluded if you thought he would but you are perfectly entitled to choose not to put up with it anymore. The drinking would be the biggest problem in my book rather than the money or being treated. I am a lone parent and I understand what you mean about wanting someone else to take up the slack sometimes. But I'm single - I don;t have the irritation of a drunken oaf on my sofa whilst I do everything and earn the money.

But I think you're wasting your time thinking he will change... unless he decides to himself. Otherwise you will get a small improvement - just enough to make you think twice about leaving then in 2 years time you'll be back when you started and you'll go through the same thing all over again. Repeatedly.

I know deeply unhappily married people who have done this and at 50 are now facing their children leaving home and leaving them with each other but not feeling brave enough or financially capable enough of separating.

In the meantime make sure your finances are separate. Tell him you want £250 per month to contribute to living costs and he can spend the rest. Get a standing order set up from his account. Of course if you separate them it will be toughter as he will have to pay for somewhere to live.

the problem here is the alcohol love.

You can't marry someone and expect them to be any different in terms of aspiration/drive etc than when you met them. People are who they are. They may evolve over time, but when you meet someone you have to accept them for who they are on the understanding that this is the person you have got. Sure some people DO get it all together and go up a gear when the chips are down, but he's never had to because you did it all. Even if you HAD have found yourself in a situation where you can't be the main provider, it may not have translated in any change at all in his behaviour, demeanor. In this love, YABU to expect any more of him than he already was. If you turned the tables on the genders here, you don't need to be a rocket scientist to know that any woman faced with that kind of ultimatum would be roundly advised to LTB.

That said, He has to also understand that you have health issues that will worsen and the time is now for him to grab hold of the situation and work with you to strengthen your household.

to the matter that IS the issue you have to get the H to sort out is the drinking. he can't spend all his money on beer, he has to contribute somehow, and develop again, or make a better business from the skills/experience/qualifications he has.

Would TEFL be an idea for him to supplement his income?

Ultimately the only way to get a drunk to take you seriously is to leave them. The marriage is for life nonsense will take you down with him if you adopt this attitude. You have kids and kids in an alcoholic setting are going to suffer, you need to put yourself and them first before a marriage vow.

A marriage is a partnership forever, but one that has to grow and adapt with the changing circumstances of children and aging.

^^

Absolutely.

Support, love, respect, affection make up the oil that enable the growth and change required.

The question is: does this marriage have enough of that? Or even any of that?

Mine had none. And was not able to adapt either. xh was left quite sure that he was simply unable to change. I had so much resentment. He had no ability to change. I left and I am infinitely happier.

Having kids is such a watershed in a marriage. Some me simply don't step up or grow up.

Thankyou Handywoman for your support.

It is hard to support, love, respect and be affectionate with someone who is more interested in beer and TV, than doing anything with his life or enjoying his time with me and the kids.

I have so much resentment that it is simply not healthy. I feel I have worked hard to get my career, bloody hard. And it simply supports him to continue to do nothing with his life. The worst part he does not accept any of my points at all - about drinking, about spongeing, about not driving. He has a (crap) argument for everything.

I need to be brave...

The financial crisis hit the building industry the hardest. Had he stayed, then chances are today he would've been earning a decent wage.

He failed at acting.
And he probably feels he failed in the building trade.
He probably feels he's not needed now there is a nanny etc.
He knows his wife resents him..
And he is in a new country

Are you sure he is not depressed?

On the other hand if you feel you can't salvage it anymore, then life might be easier on your own.

It is hard to support, love, respect and be affectionate with someone who is more interested in beer and TV, than doing anything with his life or enjoying his time with me and the kids.

Nobody could argue with this. Which is why it's bad enough to leave. It really is.

Hmm, tried to have a chat. But as always, he refuses to accept he has a drinking problem.

He threw it straight back to me and my drinking. I tried to explain that the difference is I don't need to drink everyday, I don't start drinking the minute I walk through the door from work and when I do drink, I might a have a few glasses of wine/beer and then stop. (Obviously at social gatherings I am less restrained, but these are maybe twice a month max - I admit I am not an angel).

His weekend drinking is very heavy on Friday, Saturday and Sunday. This sometimes starts on a Thursday.

When he has a hangover, he will continue to drink heavily the next day. I, along with most people (particularly with small children to look after) I believe would give drinking a rest the next day if I had a hangover. So I feel that is another warning sign.

He cannot see it at all!

The fact that you can't have proper communication with him over issues important to the relationship speaks volumes.

So he doesn't accept he has a drink problem and he doesn't accept your points about sponging and driving.

What can you do but accept that he doesn't accept this and get out of the marriage?

He will fight hard to keep you once he realises you're serious about ending it, because you're his cash cow. Please don't waste a couple more years on broken promises to change. This is fundamentally who he is.

You want different things, OP: a better life, an equal partner, someone who shoulders the burden of family life.

He wants an easy life, someone to bring up the kids and tidy the home and wash his pants. He doesn't see your happiness as important.

You need to go your separate ways, OP.

OP, I used to believe in this 'all in one pot, we're married etc' bt. I had this idea that together means I look after him, he looks after me, we look after each other, our child, our future. We're a team.
One day after many years of marriage, I woke up and realised, pretty much like you, that I am not the partner, I am the cash cow, the maid, the cook, the PA. he was doing his 'share' if I reminded him.
I tried talking. As in: look, I work full time, I commute, I do the cooking, shopping, washing, cleaning, homework, uniforms, social life, ironing, finances, MOTs, everything but the bins. Anything he'd do was begrudgingly. I was tired, ill and exhausted.
Like you, I was dreaming of being treated from time to time. As in: once in a very blue moon I wanted him to take a look at me and see how utterly spent I was and say: let's eat out tonight, save you the work. Or: don't worry about the big thursday night shop, order it online and I'll collect it when you get back with the car, saves you getting home at 8.30, 2 1/2 h after you finished work. That sort of thing. Nah!
So what I did was separate the finances, get a ballpark figure for all expenses and transfer exactly half into the joint account. Felt rubbish, I still had 3/4 of my salary in my account. But I had to start looking after myself somewhere, and make him realise it's not on.
Maybe if you separate the finances and refuse to put more than he does, he'll see the discrepancy and, more importantly, he'll see that his income barely covers the basics, leaving him with nothing to spare.
Might work.

Oh god, how utterly miserable.

Op, he's a DRUNK. Nothing else is relevant - or, well, the other issues are dwarfed by the BOOZE. A symptom, or not, of the ALCOHOLISM.

You'll never get anywhere - AT ALL - with him cosied up to his lover, his one true love, which he puts before anyone and anything. Honestly, you (and the kids, your life) are bit parts in his 'life'.

Stop trying to convince him - he is simply not interested to give up his cherished booze. Yy he doesn't drink during the day - 'see, I can stop when I want to' he says to himself. Dull, dull, dull: he is a drunk.

You are wasting your breath, he will never admit it - and it's pure agony being with someone like this, who is there in body but entirely absent. He already has his wife and he will defend her at all costs, to the death.

Ppl think alcoholics roll around in the gutter smelling of piss but the vast majority are high (ish in your H's case) functioning, adept at hiding the truth. Whatever his reason is to drink, you won't make the tiniest dent so please don't try (it will slaughter you). It's his job to face, or not, the truth - there is precisely zero you can do to influence it or him.

You need to protect yourself - you are not well and he, his addiction, is a serious drain emotionally, practically, financially. You can't afford that! Plus what are the kids learning from this

Get rid. Go to al-anon xx

Ychromosome put it much more succinctly at 11.37

Sure, make sure he earns a good wage and put up with his drinking and slobbiness.

It looks like you should LTB, but your problem is not really the wage he earns.

Stop wasting time trying to figure out if he is anxious, or depressed, or addicted.

Not your problem.

Your problem is extricating you and the children from this and taking the smallest possible financial hit. Get yourself a solicitor and start looking for jobs back in the UK.

I think you are being unfair about his work and wage.

But, I wouldn't want to live with a drunk.

Urgh- OP you are a saint. I couldn’t put up with this man. The ex-actor, driving thing and alcohol…call me a bitch but no, sorry.

You would be so much happier I’m sure on your own or finding a man that CAN muck in financially and pay for things now and again.

If you want to give him an ultimatum I would say either he stops drinking or cuts down the drinking to just the weekends and actually CONTRIBUES to the household and perhaps start to look for a better paying job so that as a FAMILY you are in a better position financially or that’s it.

Good luck.

The drink is the problem. Anyone who drinks too muck keeps family money for themselves and are basically selfish.. He doesn't treat you as he wants money for drink. That's his number one. His job is not the issue. If he didn't spend on drink ye would all be that much better off. Focus on the drink problem as it's no life. Explains his laziness too.