My wife - she just cannot handle any 'criticism'- big nor small- HELP

[Husband99]

Things are pretty rough. I just cannot raise anything with my wife without her just getting angry and now I'm stuck to know what to do. It seems I either just shut up- no matter it is- or it will kick off. The former just doesn't seem like a sustainable way to live.

Mostly things that come up are just petty. For example, I hate being late. She is always late when we have to leave for things. That puts me in a grump; I know it does- and need to get perspective- but I also do not think these things are the end of the world. What makes these situations far worse is how she reacts. Then it becomes her angry reaction (that always happens) that we argue about the reaction, and not the tiny thing that initially caused it that becomes long forgotten.

Basically she flips and loses her temper every time I raise even the tiniest issue and things immediately switch and she says that she is the one hard fine by having to deal with this. It just puts me in a position where I cannot raise any issue with her or else she will just flip. She never quietly considers a point, reflects, try's to appreciate where someone else (i.e. me) is coming from. Her instinct is always to just get angry and go on the 'attack'- every time.

I do my best to remain calm in these instances, but she quickly raises her voice and slips into personal insults like calling me a 'prick ' - I'll admit, I resort to saying things back at times. I am not perfect- my patience is not infinite and I know this is damaging to our relationship. To be honest, I do this as I feel bullied. I am forever in these instances saying 'but I am the one whose is upset with something you have done- why are you shouting at me?'. I just don't understand. We do discuss this, but nothing changes.

She doesn't seem to see that she makes things more significant than really need to be by her angry reactions. Because I don't react this way in reverse, she also feels that I raise a lot if things with her and just fails to see that I am not more pedantic, I just am able to listen when things that she raises are said to me. They get quickly forgotten and aren't even remembered because I don't get angry- I take heed and listen. It's just when I am upset or frustrated with something, her reaction is so predictably extreme and aggressive that I think it becomes memorable. There is always an excuse. How I raise things; the things I raise etc - what is consistent is the angry reaction not seeing that I have tried everything. My one option that I feel I have is to just not say anything.

Let me explain how crazy this can be. On occasion, just recently, we were travelling in the car and playing a game to pass the time- 20 questions. My wife got frustrated, thought I was being patronising as she was having difficulty guessing who it was (I know- I cannot believe I am writing this!) and she said 'God you are a wanker'. I was a little stunned and calmly said, 'ok- I don't want to play anymore'. Because we were on a car journey, I couldn’t take time out to get away and collect my thoughts, so I just plugged in my ipod- all calmly. She did say why did I want to listen to my ipod, and I said I didn't want to just sit here in a her moody silence (yes- she got moody with me despite it being her calling me a personal comment) and I just wanted to zone out and relax. No shouting - all very calm. I was upset.

This ended up being a blazing argument - I just don't understand why a moment of reflection doesn't arrive where she calmly, genuinely says sorry and feels sorry for what she did. Instead she gets angry about the fact that I am upset/ annoyed with what she did.

Ultimately I keep saying to her that I am allowed to feel a certain way if things (big or small) happen and I want to be able to share that. I am want to feel like I am allowed to raise things if I feel a certain way, but these see not an attack. There's no need to react like this. I am on her team. But her constant anger is so tiring. I don't respect it. I feel like I have to walk constantly on egg shells and that I am unable to share anything without it being a blazing argument- big or small.

Its horrible.

[Minus2seventy3]

"You have no insight into your role or what you are doing

That is the problem here"

I strongly suspect that never, in the history of Mumsnet, has a woman suffering in a verbally (and sometimes physically) abusive relationship, been advised to think about what she may be doing to push her abuser's buttons. Absolutely unthinkable.
A mantra I've often read on here, Mathanxiety: the only acceptable level of abuse in a relationship is zero, yet you tell the OP to be a "grown up", not a toddler, and "put on his big boy panties"?

[Husband99]

Right- inspired by my wife seein this as the opportune moment to declare her undieing love for John Cusack on Facebook (I know- why the hell did I even look!) I'm getting out of here. Be kind all :) x

[ChaiseLounger]

Goodness, this thread has taken a weird and unexpected path!

[Charley50]

I was just wondering where your wife is, as you mentioned she wanted to come home as she had a class? Is she still at her mums?

[duplodon]

Oh Husband, I'm so sorry for you.

Please, you may need to walk away from this. This happened me once on a thread on a very different topic (to do with counselling) and I nearly imploded. I actually locked myself into the bathroom and all I could see was the screen. It was a really weird experience. My husband was in the UK and I was on holiday in a different country and he couldn't contact me, so he looked me up online, saw what was happening and actually flew to be with me. It happened at a very vulnerable time in my life (I had a young baby and had a history of severe PND, which is why he knew my log in).

It was the most serious mental event of my life as I lost all sense of perspective and reality because of this kind of a thread, this kind of an attack on my self. It was bloody dangerous: it could easily have spiralled without intervention.

Mathanxiety, you need to STOP.
YOU are the abuser on this thread.

[pickledsiblings]

Just read this Husband99. I believe what you have posted to be the truth. My suspicions are that your wife has low self esteem.

For you or I, simply apologising when one has done something out of order (like the wanker comment) is an admission that we are not perfect, in the same way that no one is. But a similar apology from your wife (or anyone with low self esteem), would I think, be the equivalent of her admitting that she is a horrible person (which she most likely isn't). It's a lot more loaded than just a simple apology.

To build on that I think your wife may have a secret, something that she has done (or has been done to her?), not necessarily something hugely major, of which she is 'ashamed'. This I think may be the unspoken context to all her anger. She is conflicted with herself because she is not a horrible person but she has not truly taken ownership of something about herself/or she has not been completely honest about something in her past.

I think it may be worth trying to raise some of this before you call it a day as if I'm right, once the secret is out she'll probably be a whole lot nicer to be around.

About the phone call (or was it a text?) about when to talk and the power games, you are playing too whether you realise it or not. She suggested you speak in the evening, your next 'move' should have been to suggest a time as in "OK sure, let's speak at 7pm".

That's my amateur psychologists take on it based on my own experiences and reading around things to try and sort my own relationship out. I wish you the best of luck with whatever you decide OP.

[Offred]

I agree that that's what your next 'move' should have been but I also understand how difficult it can be to assert yourself like that about something you need when every time you have previously done something like that in the past you've been met with extreme anger. I recognise a lot of the posts you've made in myself - the unhelpful ways you contribute to the cycle of abuse when you have been trained to never have any reaction to anything that shows a sign of the anger starting up.

[shirleybasseyslovechild]

I agree, math you are an abuser on this thread.
Just back the fuck off, will you?


OP you are an articulate caring man.You love your wife but have identified aspects of her that are unacceptable. You are right, they are unacceptable.

If she cant see that and make an effort to change, I hope you have the courage to leave as you deserve better.
Best of luck

[Strokethefurrywall]

This thread makes for hard reading. Mumsnet at its most despicable. I've never read a thread where a poster in an emotionally abusive relationship has been interrogated to such a degree as to their part in why their other half acts the way they do. If this was a woman posting there would be fucking uproar at those goading and, frankly, cruel posters. Why don't you try this victim blaming on another thread and see how far it gets you.
The only thing this thread has done has to show some posters in their true light. Disgusting. Always the man to blame, right?

[Husband99]

Just do you know, I've been with my mates all day (and gloriously) not mentioned this once- us guys really are shit at this sort of thing!

For what it's worth pickledsiblings , I agree. She isn't a bad person. I don't think she is. But that is exactly her reaction when we go through this- she feels like I am assassinating her character which I obviously never want to do. The latest phase is the quick move to shouting and personal insults. I do think there are other matters at play. My guess is that it isn't cheating. For a beautiful, intelligent lady, she is very insecure and admits that.

Sharing this all here as given me faith that there are lovely, caring people out there who can take the time to help a stranger.

Best not to comment on some of the other contributions. All I'd say is guys struggle similar problems too. I'd never heard of mensnet before - maybe some would prefer I posted this kind of thing there and that has been part of the issue, but I'm surmising.

[Seriouslyffs]

Glad you've come back. You're right -I can't think of another site where you could post and I hope you've found it useful.

[FunnyHowThingsWorkOut]

If you are looking for another place to get opinions, try reddit/r/relationships

Users can vote on comments they feel are most helpful, so the most popular comments get voted to the top. Better way to judge what the balance of opinion is.

[IonaMumsnet]

Afternoon folks. Just dropping by with a reminder of our talk guidelines, particularly with reference to personal attacks. Thanks!

[Joysmum]

madwowanbackintheattic

Whatever 'provocation' there may be, there is no excuse for violence, or in this case repeated violence.

Hell there are people who have been raped or had members of their family killed by others who don't resort to violence.

It's inexcusable whatever and I'd never advise anyone in such a relationship to accept that or accept any partial blame, or accept that a situation manufactured to try to give the impression that THEY are in danger of violence is right either.

[CateCadiz]

Well, there you go Husband. You now have permission to "afford her the same luxuries". So, a belt in the gob.....no worries. Or maybe trap her legs in the door. Or even stage a scenario for others to overhear how you have your hand to her face in a threatening way. All whilst calling her every vile name you can get your tongue round. Sorted!

[Wideopenspace]

OP - going right back to your title, you asked for 'help' - what help did you want?

I ask because I think a number of posters have been shouted down for offering different viewpoints - having a different viewpoint is not the same as being complicit, or victim blaming. Personally, I have said nothing I would not have said to a woman in the same situation.


I think one of the most helpful things a forum like this can offer is some insight into what the other person might be feeling or thinking - but OP, maybe that is not what you want?

[laurierf]

To be honest I would have asked more questions about shutting the leg in doors (aware that would open up calls of man-hating, MNer at her worst for daring to question the OP on that) because I'm very close to a couple where I know this has happened and why and I do think there is partial blame, and that for example blocking doorways so someone cant leave or close themselves away from an argument is a form of 'getting physical' even though no punches would ever be thrown. The punch in the face makes everything else irrelevant, however, as does saying 'don't put your hand in my face' when he hadn't raised his hand; so, OP, I hope you have your conversation tomorrow and that it leads to a positive outcome for you but I personally do also hope that it's separation.

[SleeplessButNotInSeattle]

I just haven't quite worked out why there have been so few posters considering whether the wife is the victim in this equation.

Because women are taken at face value when they talk about abuse on this forum, so men should be too?

OP I'm guessing from your username that you are a man, otherwise I would absolutely love you to 'come out' as a woman in a same sex relationship on this thread. I think some posters would self-implode.

[Minus2seventy3]

Perhaps, Madwoman and Math, you need to read this? www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/698029-Right-listen-up-everybody

[Charley50]

Actually sometimes women post saying it's abuse and are told it isn't or they are incompatible or they are oversensitive; it's not that clear cut.
The OP does appear a little over critical at times of his wife, and his example of her washing her hair was weird. I think the advice suggesting they are incompatible and they split is best.

[laurierf]

Is it honestly true (I'm new to MN) that if a woman posted exactly the same 800-odd word OP, word for word, but as a wife talking about a husband, you would not have a few posters questioning what sort of things she was criticising him about and trying to see it from the other point of view? (I'm not talking about the one or two extreme and totally unfair posts obviously). I'ver certainly seen wives criticised for being PA to a husband who's sworn at them and sulked about it for example…

[Charley50]

LaurierF you're correct.

[Offred]

It's not unthinking. It is based on reading the op's posts. Also, I am yet to hear from either you madwoman or math why you feel justified in reading so many things into what he has said. I would like to believe it is not because he is a man because I've always defended this board as not manhating however there, to me, is nowhere near enough actual evidence to imply the wild accusation that he must be driving his wife to it into his story... I just don't see it but I guess that's where the 'unthinking' jibe comes in - a lack of reading between the lines and implying all kinds of things. If you can justify your viewpoint I think more people would have been inclined to agree with you and the fact that you haven't and neither has math means to me, reading between the lines, it isn't really founded on anything but your own belief and therefore I really don't think it is appropriate to take the stance you have.

[SabrinnaOfDystopia]

I don't give a flying fuck what sex you are, if you are start a thead wanting the green light to go on being critical of your partner, and for everyone to agree that the partner is being totally unreasonable when they snap, you're going to be sorely disappointed.

Yes, I think that's why I'm so uncomfortable with the OP - he's wanting the green light to be able to 'criticise' his wife and to then control her response to that criticism. We don't know the tone or manner of this 'criticism' of her, which he complains that she can't handle - but it could be far nastier and more damaging than he's willing to admit on this thread. I can totally see where Math is coming from here.

I don't care what anybody says, nobody likes to be criticised. If it's your boss, you take it on the chin, but when it's the one person in your life you have sworn to love above all others, it's far worse - for example - why the need to 'criticise' her washing her hair?! Newsflash: women do their hair when they know they're getting together with family/going to be photographed.