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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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child protection conference

98 replies

djrmrcbhyvf · 28/05/2015 00:19

Today the dcs and I have received invitations to a child protection conference. A social worker came once to see dh and the dcs, I was in hospital at the time so did not see him. He has not made any attempt to speak to me since. The conference is at the 6th form of the dcs school so they do not want to go. The leaflet says we need to let our views be known but views on what?
I know SS see me as the issue due to MH problems as they have checked with dh that he is home to look after them and not working away as he often does.
What input can the dcs have as none of us know what plan they want?
I suspect they want me out of the picture which would solve all their problems but I also know this is the last thing the dcs want. It would also leave them open to abuse from my mother as dh let's her take over and my issues stem from her narcissistic parenting.
Have also read some positive horror stories on here about heavy handed SW so very worried about what could happen

OP posts:
djrmrcbhyvf · 31/05/2015 08:48

I typed a long thread and then lost it Sad
I am sorry to have caused an argument.
It is very interesting to see the different viewpoints - those that can understand my actions and those who just say I am being an idiot. The fact that the latter type are mainly SW or MH workers speaks volumes to me about why this has happened and what will occur next week at the ICPC.
goddess thank you for your offer of help; I will contact you if things get desperate but I have to stand on my own 2 feet if I am to get thro this. Your last post was spot on in every way.
Maybe I am overreacting but what parent wouldn't when faced with a report damning her and her parenting with no hope for change?
The SW, having dropped off his bombshell on Friday eve for me to read alone, is conveniently not working over the weekend and the MH team are not bothered either - the police picked me up under a S136 last night and the psychiatrist discharged me immediately.

OP posts:
EhricLovesTheBhrothers · 31/05/2015 09:46

I didn't say you were an idiot Confused
I said your actions were not proportionate or reasonable and that you need to go home
As you were picked up under MH legislation I would suggest that I was right and your mental health state was clouding your judgment
Have you gone home?

EhricLovesTheBhrothers · 31/05/2015 09:48

OP please keep posting, if you find other posters distressing you can ask for them to be removed, this is your thread

No she can't. And removing all the voices of posters who 1- understand the system and 2- are not colluding with the OP's unwell mental state would not be in her interests.

Wideopenspace · 31/05/2015 10:31

OP, you have said that you have made suicide attempts, and that you left home and slept rough. That you have been hospitalised because of your mental health on more than one occasion? Apologies if I have misread/misinterpreted anything. I am a CP lead within a school - if this situation was reported to me, I would absolutely expect social care to be involved, and in all likelihood, for it to go to conference.

I have worked alongside many families where the children have been subjects of child protection plans, and it is extremely rare for children to be removed - the point is to work towards a multi agency plan to safeguard the children. This has implications for professionals working directly with parents - especially in cases where mental health services have been found to be lacking. The outcomes of CP conferences will have targets for everyone involved - this includes the professionals. The school, for example, may have to agree to provide 1:1 mentoring for the children, mental health professionals will have to agree targets, social workers will have to agree a support plan, parents have to agree targets, and to engaging with support.

I suppose what I'm saying is that the job of a CP plan is to hold everyone involved to account - if professionals have failed you (and therefore your children) in the past, then this is an extra set of eyes trying to make sure this does not happen again.

QuiteLikely5 · 31/05/2015 10:51

Op

The fact of the matter is, is that how our parents behave and act on a daily basis affect us as children.

That is at the heart of the matter. You may not be doing anything at all to your children but it is possible that through your own suffering they are somehow suffering.

Ss investigations are looking at this as a possibility.

The SW on the thread are giving you a glimpse into the process. They are quite right in saying somebody has described a situation to the SW department which has triggered this process. That much is true.

You do really need to attend the meeting, not doing so without a good reason is not in your families best interests. This is a meeting about YOUR family.

Do not think it is going to be bad. Outcomes of meetings usually suggest on what can be done to hold the family together. This might involve you attending all your MH appointments and such like.

At the meeting, acknowledge the concerns, and declare your determination to resolve your health issues with the help of your MH team.

No one is out to get you. I understand your annoyance at the fact the SW hasn't met you but created a report anyway. He has done this with information given to him about you.

He may well change his opinion once he has met you.

Good luck Flowers

Lndnmummy · 31/05/2015 11:04

Oh fgs EhricLovesTheBhrothers, do you seriously think that you are helping? I am not entering a debate with you, this thread is far too important for point scoring.

EhricLovesTheBhrothers · 31/05/2015 11:12

Do you think you are helping?

QuiteLikely5 · 31/05/2015 11:48

Of course Ehric is being helpful! Why is that hard to see?

She is a SW and she knows the system.

Why ignore that?

djrmrcbhyvf · 31/05/2015 12:53

No I have not gone home.
No one in RL seems to give a damn what I do. If the MH team agreed I was acting irrationally and putting myself at risk why did they discharge me?
The Crisis team say it is my choice and nothing they can do.
Saw my care coordinator last week and then not again until the end of June!
So no help or support - presumably just what I can expect from the CPC.

There is no way I can attend the confetence; I cannot walk into a room with loads of people I don't know and sit there listening to them talk about how just by existing I am causing my children significant harm. Even to try is too risky.

OP posts:
QuiteLikely5 · 31/05/2015 13:05

Op

It could be they think the children are AT RISK of significant harm not suffering significant harm. There is an important difference.

The point of the meeting is to see what risk is there and to look at how the risk can be managed.

You have an important role to play. Please don't be afraid.

sakura · 31/05/2015 13:11

I do think the SW are helpful in so far as they're giving you an insight into how you will be dealt with.

Obviously if the children are at risk then there is a need for this conference.

But from what the OP has written, and all of us can only go by that, she is being maligned because of her mental health issues in the sense that she is being stigmatized because of them. We do not know how supportive her husband is. Many women realize after leaving a spouse that he was the source of their misery. Social workers should know this.

If she is that desperate to escape the home then clearly it is not a supportive atmosphere for her. It very much reminds me of the women on here who are going through a bad divorce and "just need to get out of the house". Some go to stay with family, which is a good option. Some in fact wander the streets just to get away from their home life because the issues are that vast and deep that they don't even know where to begin to unpick it.

It sounds like she is being undermined by her mother in a big way, and that her husbands supports this undermining of her mothering. Let's be honest, that would drive most women round the bend.

This conference is not going to pick up on subtleties in her home life that are causing her distress. All it is going to do is look at her reaction to the things that are upsetting her i.e leaving the house for the night to sleep rough.

OP, my advice would be, if you are this unhappy at home that you are having mental health issues to this degree then you should definitely consider leaving your husband and living alone. I have no doubt that a certain amount of mental stability will return when you do so.

sakura · 31/05/2015 13:15

And I would definitely go to the conference.

It is so strange that they keep saying that simply by having mental health issues you are harming your children even though you're not actually harming them Confused There are so many abusers of children, sexual abusers, physical abusers who don't officially have mental health issues and fly completely under the radar of the professionals.

CountryMummy1 · 31/05/2015 13:26

I feel desperately sorry for the OP as I have been there- in the depths of despair due to post natal depression.

Please summon up all your strength to go to the meeting. Get some support to go with you. Phone your MH team and tell them you need someone to come with you. Phone the SW and tell them you need some MH support to attend the meeting. They should do their best to accommodate you.

I have attended many many CP meetings as a teacher. I saw SWs do their best to keep families together even when the circumstances are dire (husband had sex with a 12 year old girl is one unforgettable one but they still didn't lose the children). The only time I have seen children removed is when the parent or parents did not engage with the services offered. Please think about this carefully.

EhricLovesTheBhrothers · 31/05/2015 13:27

It is so strange that they keep saying that simply by having mental health issues you are harming your children even though you're not actually harming them

This is only the OP's account of the report. You have not read it and you have no idea what is really going on. A parent in the grip of psychosis or severe depression will not understand or acknowledge the harm they are causing.

djrmrcbhyvf · 31/05/2015 14:42

A parent in the grip of psychosis or severe depression will not understand or acknowledge the harm they are causing.

which is precisely why I have left

OP posts:
Wideopenspace · 31/05/2015 15:01

OP - that last post is exactly why you and your children need the support that can be provided by CP plans.

I wonder if there is an advocacy service in your area that might be able to represent you at the conference, or accompany you? I've seen that before - or a trusted friend/relative who could be your voice? I've also seen that.

Lavenderice · 31/05/2015 15:07

Hi, I was in two minds whether to post again as I am extremely concerned that I will upset you, however just one more thing. I know you've mentioned that you haven't seen the CP Plan, that's because it will be written at the conference, with everyone there able to contribute. It really is your chance to have your say.

goddessofsmallthings · 01/06/2015 12:16

I went to bed with a heavy heart in the early hours of yesterday morning, djrmrcbhyvf, in part because of the thought of you wandering the streets and sleeping rough at a time when you are so vulnerable and also because of my concern that the stridency of some of the responses you've received may have served to make you feel even more isolated from the 'mainstream' and even more fearful of the outcome of the forthcoming ICPC.

As those responses came after Chopin's account of what was undoubtedly a harrowing experience for her and which, in fact, embodied your worst fears realised, it wouldn't be at all surprising if any spark of hope you may have had that your experience would be any different has been completely extinguished by some what you've read here.

If that is the case, my love, you need to know that your reaction to the report you were given on Friday is not markedly different from how many mentally healthy mothers would react as it is an entirely natural response for a parent to seek to sacrifice themselves in order to ensure the survival of their dc.

This was not you getting it wrong because you are not as mentally together or on the ball as others; it was you doing what you believed was best for your dc and in other circumstances I have no doubt you would be praised for your selflessness.

However, I suspect that your decision to leave your home so peremptorily on Friday night may have also been prompted by feelings of being unsupported or misunderstood by your dh/other family members and your absence may have subsequently been the cause of some consternation among them, particularly if you failed to annouce it.

We are all capable of doing things we may subsequently come to regret, or which may make us feel that our cause is even more hopeless than it was, and the events of the last few days may have left you feeling that there is no point in fighting what, in your present state of mind, may seem inevitable.

If this should be the case, I suggest you divest yourself of a considerable amount of the pressure you are under by simply taking the path of least resistance and allowing whatever will be to happen because, at the present time, you are not in any condition to be able to argue your case in such a manner as to alter those decisions which you believe have already been made.

Let's be blunt and remove any doubt that your belief may be attributable to some paranoid delusion or other, as the fact is that this particular conference has only been convened because the alleged concerns of significant emotional harm to your dc caused by you/your illness have been substantiated insofar as your local authority's Childrens Services is concerned.

In order to substantiate those concerns, some or all of those present will have communicated with some or all of the others prior to the conference and a strategy meeting will have taken place to determine what is considered to be in the best interests of your dc.

Make no doubt about it; it would indeed be a most unusual, not to say unique, Initial CPC if decisions have not already been made regarding what provisions should be put in place to safeguard your dc.

(As an aside: you're only crazy as a fox, honey, as all of your gut feelings are spot on but, nevertheless, I doubt this will be sufficient to provide you with the reasurance and comfort you are so desperately in need of.)

To continue: the social worker responsible for compiling the report is under obligation to explain the purpose of the conference, who will be attending, the way in which it operates, and appraise you of the complaints procedure.

You should also be told in writing that you have the right to be accompanied by a friend or supporter/advocate to enable you to put your views to the conference or to speak for you if you feel unable to speak yourself, together with details of any local advice or advocacy services and the conference complaints procedure.

If you do not feel able to attend alternative means should be provided to enable you to communicate with the chair, or your advocate/supporter can express your views within the conference on the day .

NB If you appoint a solicitor to act for you, s/he can only attend in the role of supporter in compliance with Law Society guidance Attendance of solicitors at local authority Children Act meetings which, in essence, means that s/he cannot adopt an adversarial position or cross-examine participants. That said, it is often the case that the presence of a solicitor at meetings of this nature can serve to concentrate minds.

The voice of the child/ren is of crucial importance to CPCs but, nevertheless, their declared wish not to attend must be respected. It's understandable that your dc have said they do not wish to attend when the meeting will be held at their school and they will be pulled out of lessons/break time with all that implies in terms of raising the curiousity of their peers - some of whom may recognise the social worker(s) or other attendees as they make their way to and from the car park to the room which has been set aside for the conference.

While it may be convenient for the teaching staff who have been invited to attend and it can be argued that the child/ren will be away from their lessons for less time than if they were required to travel to another venue, it seems to me - and to many others - that holding CPCs at their schools is not the best way to gain the trust of children who may themselves be in crisis.

As this is an initial conference and as it is highly unlikely that, even if you were fighting fit, you will be able to ensure that your views/wishes/preferences prevail on the day, if you are not up to attending you are best advised to appoint a supporter/advocate to speak on your behalf, report the outcome back to you immediately or shortly thereafter, and give you feedback as to what each of the individual attendees contributed to the decisions that were made.

Please don't think that by not attending this first conference you will be in some way letting either your dc or yourself down. I am cognisant of the fact that the overwhelming consenus here is that you should attend, but it appears that few are able to comprehend that to do so may cause you significant emotional harm.

You are in an extremely fragile state of mind and my concern is that a word, a look, or some turn of phrase from one of those present (as in those who, albeit temporarily, have dominion over you and your dc) will send you spiralling back to the dark place you have so recently emerged from.

Those accustomed to attending such meetings may have no conception of how daunting it can be to enter a room full of strangers, some/all of whom have made provisional judgements relating to your capability as a parent and, effectively, explain yourself to them in the hope that you can prevail on them to change any unfavourable opinion(s) they hold.

Even for those who are mentally robust, these meetings can be the equivalent of a trial by ordeal and more especially when any hopes of speedy resolution are met with the inflexibility of the bureaucratic mindset.

I make no apology for the length of this post as its intent should be clear for all to see. I know you are determined to 'stand on your own two feet', OP, but you need a strong arm by your side to safeguard you.

Needless to say, my invitation stands and you can call me at ANY hour of the day and night.

djrmrcbhyvf · 01/06/2015 16:02

Thank you goddess you are spot on again. At least you can reassure yourself I had a bed last night as I was picked up under S136 again. Discharged today tho as the team have no way of keeping me safe.
Who knows what the rest of the week will bring Smile.

OP posts:
alwaysaskingquestionz · 01/06/2015 18:46

Look love. I mean this with real care. You're not well. If you're repeatedly being picked up under section then there is a reason for that. Get yourself well, let SS help you, be honest with yourself that you need care.
If I was you, I'd ring SS to say that you love your children and will be a competent well mum, but you need to take some time to get better first. Then present as a voluntary patient at hospital. If you can't keep yourself safe then you can't keep your children safe.
SS can make a temporary arrangement. It's a pain in the arse to place children so they will not take yours away unless they absolutely have to and it doesn't found like they're at that level of risk.
I truly hope you can engage with the professionals involved because if you don't, they wot go away and things will just get harder.
Could a mental health charity like rethink provide an advocate for the CP conference to speak on your behalf if it's too much?

goddessofsmallthings · 01/06/2015 23:46

If only it were that simple always, but, for the last 2 nights at least, it would appear that the OP has been picked up by the police at night and discharged each morning to roam the streets/sit in parks, cafes etc, as she is not considered to be sufficiently unwell to be detained on S136 (up to 72 hours).

This cycle could continue indefinitely as, unless her condition deteriorates, no hospital will admit her as a voluntary patient when demand for beds far exceeds their availability.

As a vulnerable adult the OP's local authority have a statutory obligation to house her, but as she has left the marital home of her own volition she may be deemed to have made herself homeless which negates their responsibility to accomodate her.

As far as can be ascertained, there is no reason whatsoever to suppose that her dc will be taken into care or become subject to a care order and it's more probable, but by no means certain, that the ICPC may require her to live away from the family home for a period in which case the LA will be required to make accomodation available to her.

Taking into account all of the information the OP has made available here, together with the content of some of the responses she has received, it is entirely understandable that her current state of mind is such that she would ill-advised to make contact with SS herself nor should she be put under any pressure to do so.

If you read this OP, please make contact with MIND's legal helpline and ask for an advocate -preferably one who is a solicitor - to represent you at the conference or to make contact with the chair:

0300 466 6463
[email protected]

lines are open 9am to 6pm, Monday to Friday (except for bank holidays).

Alternatively or as well as, please call or pm me.

Lavenderice · 02/06/2015 00:10

Goddess I am still reading this thread because like you I am extremely concerned about the OP, and some of the advice you have offered on here has been really good, but I am growing tired of the insinuations that some of the responses on here have made the OP's situation worse. Yes, some of them have been upsetting to the OP but they were written in very good faith and from what I see nobody has set out to cause more misery to the OP. They have merely set out the processes involved as asked in her original post.

I don't think anyone, either professionals or otherwise have set out to be vindictive and it is wrong of you to suggest they have.

djrmrcbhyvf · 02/06/2015 09:01

I have found all posts on here helpful for a variety of reasons. The SW related posts do give me am insight not only into the process but also the mindset of the professionals. It is understandable because generally unless you have been mentally ill it is impossible to understand how it is.
Again understandably the SW are principally focusing on the needs of the dc whereas others have seen the effect it is having on me.
To be fair to the MH team who discharge me I think they would have considered hospital this last time but in the past it has been counter productive and we are all reluctant to go down that route again. They say there is nothing they can do short term to keep me safe and, in my limited knowledge of what support is available, I cannot think of anything either. All the treatments etc seem to be long term and not suited to dealing with an immediate crisis.
I have asked the SW for a list of advocates and believe the dcs mean to write down their response. It is better that I am not at home as I cannot then be accused of telling them what to say.
One more question - is a decision made and communicated at the conference or is it finalised after and details sent to us? Thanks

OP posts:
EhricLovesTheBhrothers · 02/06/2015 09:26

The decision is made at the conference, you will get a letter afterwards but the SW should phone you if he is any good. The DC should have been offered the service of an advocate too.

QuiteLikely5 · 02/06/2015 09:41

This is why it is good if you attend the conference so you can put your side across.

If they haven't met you then they can only hear about you - seeing you face to face is going to build a better picture of the whole situation. Which is what they are trying to achieve in order to reach a decision.