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Original poster

Sexist or just banter? I need to suss out if my boundaries are wonky

100 replies

LibrarianLilly · 27/05/2015 19:57

I really need opinions please! I have been seeing someone for two months. I'll start off with the positives...he is very funny, affectionate, passionate, full of personality and most of the time we absolutely click and get on fantastically. My concerns are around his view of women. He has made quite a lot of comments towards women which I feel are pretty derogatory but I will admit that I'm touchy about gender issues and he says I'm pushing a 'gender agenda' into the conversation unnecessarily all the time. I want to know if I'm being hyper-sensitive or if people think I should steer clear. I know it's really hard to judge but some examples are - we were talking about people having cosmetic surgery and he said 'mind you some women do age badly'. I argued that you could say that about men and he felt it was more obvious in women. He said he prefers to play a sport with men because 'women scream if they get hit with the ball'; he said women tend to get neurotic as they get older and men tend to get lazy. Last night he said he enjoyed his friend joking with me (friend was bit pissed) about women being wimps and that he thought it was great because I was too polite to take issue with the friend (friend was just being jokey and I didn't take offense).

I told him last night that I think he can be quite sexist and he said I'm being ridiculous and that he's like that about all people - that it's not just a gender-based thing. He has got a piss-take sense of humour and of course it doesn't sound like it here, but he's very intelligent and does make observations about people a lot so it's not like he's only commenting about women. He does have quite a few female friends and gets on really well with women. I think I've made him sound worse than he is here - in all other ways we get on great and genuinely 'click' and it could be that these are my insecurities but I'm very interested to know if people feel like I need to lighten up or if this is a red flag.

OP posts:

Vivacia · 28/05/2015 06:13

I agree with Offred. Having to explain to my boyfriend the stupidity and offensiveness of his beliefs would be boring and tiresome. Not sure why I'd want to go out with someone who felt that I was subhuman to him in the first place.

He treated me like a princess and made me feel amazing every day, but in public he'd be a 'bit of a lad' shall we say.

FFS. Do you not just want to be treated as an equal?

Offred · 28/05/2015 07:45

I'm not aware of that! I'm not sure what you are suggesting tbh and you haven't really explained what precisely you do mean if it isn't that.

Myrightfoot - that's exactly what I wouldn't do and what I mean about parenting.

ravenmum · 28/05/2015 08:12

He's the one with a gender agenda, if he keeps bringing up how shit women are all the time. Sounds quite an obsession.

If he thinks your opinions are ridiculous, and you think he's sexist, maybe it's simply not a match made in heaven? He doesn't have to change his ways to please you, and you don't have to alter your opinions to suit him. You can both simply find someone else more compatible...

Elefant1 · 28/05/2015 08:16

Ok I guess I am going to get jumped on here but these comments wouldn't bother me at all, I would just come back at him with my own comments about men. There's no need to take it so seriously!

Vivacia · 28/05/2015 08:31

My concerns are around his view of black people. He has made quite a lot of comments about black people which I feel are pretty derogatory but I will admit that I'm touchy about race issues and he says I'm pushing an "anti-white agenda" into the conversation unnecessarily all the time. I want to know if I'm being hyper-sensitive or if people think I should steer clear. I know it's really hard to judge but some examples are - we were talking about people having cosmetic surgery and he said 'mind you some black people do age badly'. I argued that you could say that about white people and he felt it was more obvious in black people. He said he prefers to play a sport with white people because 'black people scream if they get hit with the ball'; he said black people tend to get neurotic as they get older and white people tend to get lazy. Last night he said he enjoyed his friend joking with me (friend was bit pissed) about black people being wimps and that he thought it was great because I was too polite to take issue with the friend (friend was just being jokey and I didn't take offense).

SanityClause · 28/05/2015 08:32

That's just as sexist, though, isn't it, Elefant1? So, really, you're telling him it's okay to be sexist?

I'm inclined to agree with MyRightFoot. There is so much internalised misogyny in our society, that often, people can't see it. Pointing it out is really important.

I suspect one of two things will happen. He will either start to question his attitudes, and change them, or one or other of the couple will realise they can't continue in a relationship with someone with such different views, and will end it. They've only been together 2 months.

Vivacia · 28/05/2015 08:34

There is so much internalised misogyny in our society, that often, people can't see it. Pointing it out is really important.

I agree sanity I just wouldn't extend this public service in to inviting the misogynist in to my bedroom.

Offred · 28/05/2015 08:40

Oh yeah, all for pointing it out! Not for re-educating, buying books, talking him into a different view.

When an adult hears the word sexist directed towards them after they are making prejudiced comments about people based on their gender they are more than capable of understanding why that word has been used in relation to their comments (and often already aware anyway).

If you do this making them watch/read things they often don't learn anyway because a. They already know and don't care, b. They see it as a school in how to give you what you want and/or c. Feel patronised and demeaned and won't engage.

Offred · 28/05/2015 08:45

There's the third option too - he carries on being sexist, learns how not to piss the op off too much, pushes her boundaries and headfucks because he feels he is entitled to his male superiority and then it all goes horribly wrong in some way because either the op sees him unmasked or she gets worn down with the headfuckery and loses her own perspective/boundaries.

He's already doing headfuckery - 'just a joke' and being 'genuinely' shocked that anyone would view 'women scream when hit with the ball' as sexist and then taking pleasure in his icky sexist mates' comments not being challenged by the op.

Offred · 28/05/2015 08:48

I mean come on he is described as intelligent. Presumably he understands what 'sexist' means. I seriously doubt he really is shocked because he doesn't understand, more likely he is shocked because he believes he is entitled to be sexist and doesn't feel it is acceptable to challenge him on it.

pocketsaviour · 28/05/2015 08:48

How old is he? If he's in his late teens then he might be educable (if you feel so inclined to take that on, which of course you shouldn't feel you have to.) However his comments about a "gender agenda" make him sound older and not amenable to changing his views.

Offred · 28/05/2015 08:50

He knows the comments are sexist because he was able to identify that his mates' comments were going to provoke the op.

Anniegetyourgun · 28/05/2015 09:00

Here's the one that jumped out at me: he said women tend to get neurotic as they get older and men tend to get lazy

What does that say about how he sees a lifelong relationship panning out? Is he setting up a scenario where he sits on the sofa watching footie while the little woman faffs around doing all that household stuff? Never mind if she has a bit of a moan that she's doing everything, it's just neurosis, stuff probably doesn't really need doing anyway. Oh and just get me another can from the fridge while you're on your feet, yeah? I can so see that being the long-term plan. The gender agenda, if you like.

Spanglecrab · 28/05/2015 09:02

Highly intelligent people can be sexist. I'm a man (not particularly intelligent) and have had my eyes opened since discovering this site site and more specifically the feminism boards. I have also read stories of women having their eyes opened and then becoming angry. I would suggest the fact that he is intelligent means that he would be more open to realising his behaviour is unacceptable and needs to change. If can happen.

Spanglecrab · 28/05/2015 09:03

it can happen as I said not that intelligent!!

AnyFucker · 28/05/2015 09:20

like Annie said, this bloke is telling you what your future is if you stay with him

think very carefully about that

Koalafications · 28/05/2015 09:27

I'm still at him watching a documentary on the suffragettes and finding it interesting.

I would be willing to bet money that this is part of his game plan to convince the OP that he is a 'feminist' so that his jokes are seen as just 'jokes' and not his real opinions. Because he couldn't possibly be sexist, could he? Because sexist people don't watch documentaries on the suffragettes and find them interesting

Original poster

LibrarianLilly · 28/05/2015 10:30

Aargh - he's 43 years old!!!

OP posts:

pompodd · 28/05/2015 10:53

OP, happy to add another male perspective.

To be honest, he just sounds like a bit of an arsehole. I'm a similar age to him and wouldn't say the things you've mentioned him saying on this thread (and most of my mates wouldn't either).

I guess the question you need to ask yourself is: does this part of his personality bother you enough now (or might it later) to end the relationship? I wouldn't really waste any time trying to come to a conclusion on whether he is sexist or not. From what you've said on here, I think he definitely is. But surely it's what you think that matters. I don't think you need to be "sure" that he's sexist to justify ending the relationship with him. If you're not happy, you're entitled to end it for whatever reason you like.

At 2 months in I'd be questioning why I'm questioning (if you see what I mean!).

Original poster

LibrarianLilly · 28/05/2015 10:58

Yes, thanks, pompodd I do. It's a pain in the bum that I like him so much in every other way. Thanks, I appreciate the male perspective too.

OP posts:

MyRightFoot · 28/05/2015 11:07

im truly shocked at his age. i dont think you two are compatible and i can see more nasty views will be revealed before you finally show him the door.

AnyFucker · 28/05/2015 17:11

I don't think it is even that "these two" are incompatible

I reckon this bloke is incompatible with a grown up relationship

TurnipCake · 28/05/2015 17:23

Forty fucking three? Whatever his problem is, walk away. He doesn't like women and isn't afraid to show it

BeeBawBabbity · 28/05/2015 17:30

I couldn't cope with him either, sorry. I guess some women are happy to be pigeonholed and stereotyped. He's probably thinking (hoping?) you're one of them, but you seem smarter than that.

AgainstTheWind · 28/05/2015 18:36

My boyfriend seems a bit similar to yours and he's in his 50s!

Funny, good company, passionate, interesting and intelligent. Lovely bloke and we get on great. But he does say things now and again which seem a bit off.

I'm not too bothered by it and assume it's a bit of an age thing and he's not likely to change now.

I'm fairly laid back about such things and have a piss take sense of humour myself. I think the issue is it does bother you and it may be you are not compatible with each other. I think it's unlikely he will change now.

So I think you need to weigh up whether the rest of your relationship is good enough for you to want to overlook his views. He might moderate his behaviour in front of you and even say he's changed but I would suspect he will still hold the same views but not voice them to you.

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