"But we took you to Stately Homes!" Survivors of Dystfunctional Families

[Meerka]

It's May 2015, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
March 2015

Dec 14- March 15

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

More helpful links:

Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Homecoming
Will I ever be good enough?
If you had controlling parents
When you and your mother can't be friends
Children of the self-absorbed
Recovery of your inner child

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Hello, I'm new to mums net but just found this thread through google. My Mom is an engulfing type narcissist and my MIL is an ignoring narcissist. I honestly don't know where to start with talking about all this. I apologise because I think this might be a long first post!
I only realised a couple of months ago that hubby and I had both been raised in emotionally/psychologically abusive families. I have sought professional help and am on depression/anxiety meds and awaiting nhs counselling and cbt. I am unable to go NC with my family at present. We live on the same street and moving isn't an option we can afford. I have gone limited contact, from 7 phone calls a day to 1 a fortnight!! I sent a letter telling them (without blaming or giving any ammunition) that I needed space and to back off. I no longer allow my mom to control me, she expected me to consult her on every decision! I have 2 older brothers who have been physically violent and sexually abusive to me in the past and I think I may have complex PTSD. I am a complete broken mess and I have no real idea who the true 'me' is because I had to be a carbon copy of my mom or I was rejected.
Hubby has had enough of his family manipulating and controlling him too. His mom blames him for everything. He is in the process of writing them a long letter explaining how he feels and requesting no contact. I don't think telling them details will help, or make them change, but he feels he needs to because he has never told them how their behaviour hurts him. It's so hard because I know nobody in our circle of friends will understand why we are cutting off our parents. I'm hoping for some support by posting here and maybe I can help someone else too.
Thanks for listening.

As another poster has said I too find it a bit difficult to follow and post individually if I have I left it too long. But I have read everything.

MadGeek Not sure what others think but I have no doubt that your mother (as will your husband's when his letter is sent) will make you out to be totally unreasonable and will use the 'woe is me me' card. Be strong.

I am not very good on the advice side - some of the mumsnetters here are brilliant. I offer support in that I understand what you are going through and I will not be judge (and no one else on here will either).

Toxic I am not very good at advising but will try or at hand hold. It has been very quiet on here s0 can only presume people are on holiday.

What are you being accused of? And who by - dad or sister?

I am at work but will sign in every so often to check on you.

A big comforting hug to you and DD

I've pm'd you toxic.

I'd like to join the thread if that's okay? Sorry to barge in in the middle of a conversation. Toxic I hope you are okay, it sounds like you're going through something stressful.

I don't think my DM is actually a narcissist but she possibly has some traits in that direction, although I don't know if I'm making a big fuss out of nothing. She desperately wanted a daughter - I have two older brothers and from what I can gather she wanted to have a third child in the hope that I would be a girl, rather than just wanting a third child full stop. (Goodness knows what things would have been like if I had turned out to be a boy.)

I was a bit of a tomboy and wanted to live in trousers and climb trees. At nursery school my two best friends were boys and one of my earliest memories is of her asking why I didn't want to play with the other girls and seeming a bit annoyed about it. She made me do ballet and I hated it as I was a bit graceless with quite big feet and felt very self-conscious. I just wasn't cut out for things like dancing. I remember her commenting that she had hoped it would make me less awkward and seeming quite annoyed about it. I suspect I might have enjoyed it if I had been encouraged and had my self-esteem boosted a bit. I wanted to give up but she wouldn't let me for ages. I used to cry and protest before going and she would just tell me off and threaten to smack me.

Once, after the class, the teacher made a comment about how I wasn't even trying any more and didn't seem to be enjoying it, in a friendly, concerned way I think, but my mum was really annoyed and she marched me out of there and smacked me in the car park. I think she specifically wanted a girly girl who would love ballet and be good at it. I wanted to do judo with my brothers but I wasn't allowed.

When I got into secondary school I had the usual issues with friends and fallings-out etc, and at one point was quite badly bullied. My mum was hugely unsympathetic and made comments that implied that it was my fault. I was fast becoming an indie/grunge kid and she thought that I should try harder to look 'nice' and fit in, and would make little comments about how I did my hair and make-up ("do you not want to even try to look pretty").

I remember wanting to dye my hair red and/or cut it short but not being allowed to. A couple of friends tried to encourage me to just do it without asking her but I was quite scared of her and didn't want the hassle. However, I did then throw caution to the wind and get my nose pierced without asking when I was about 16. She was furious and tried to slap me round the face. (She then admitted that it actually looked nice and didn't actually make me take it out.)

She was also not great with boundaries and would do things like walking into my room, rearranging my things and 'tidying out' my school bag. We did have a lot of nice times together, but I remember being quite frightened of her and not feeling able to go to her if I was upset as she was more likely to criticise or blame me than to comfort me.

My dad is more passive and quite henpecked really. I've always been closer to him but DM used to tell people I was closest to her as we were the girls of the family and I know that sounds trivial but it really annoyed me because it wasn't true! She would get upset and jealous about the fact that I talked to my dad about my problems (because he listened instead of seemingly relishing the opportunity to berate me).

I feel like she spent a long time trying to make me into the daughter she wanted to have rather than loving me for the daughter I actually was. We have an okay relationship now but I don't think I actually like her very much. I have heard her say quite proudly that she was very strict with her children but its more the case that she was overbearing.

I've never told anyone about this but when I was about seven another child coerced me into something sexual on a few occasions. He was about nine so there wasn't much of an age gap but it definitely wasn't normal experimentation as I didn't actually want to do it. My mum actually caught us together and her reaction was to take me up to my room, pull my pants down and smack me with my hairbrush. It has taken me years to admit that what happened wasn't my fault and that she was wrong to do that.

God, this all sounds much worse written down than it did inside my head... Sorry I have written SO much, I'll stop now.

Hello zo and to other new people who have joined since I was last here.

Zo - how much contact do you have with your parents now?

I feel like she spent a long time trying to make me into the daughter she wanted to have rather than loving me for the daughter I actually was.

Yes. Been there! You might find some of the exercises in John Bradshaw's Homecoming book very useful. About visualising yourself as a young child/teen and giving yourself the validation to be who you actually are, that you didn't get from your parents.

I'm sorry you were abused and then punished for being abused. It really is appalling treatment.

Some contact. Get on better with DF than DM, whose company I tolerate more than anything.

Thanks for the kind words and the book suggestion, will check it out.

How's it going Toxic?

ZoRay Concentrate on what is good in your life not on what she finds so disappointing. To my mother I was a great disappointment as I didn't go to uni so she couldn't boast about it. Haven't got a professional job so can't boast about me. I have a steady job which pays more than a lot round here and I have a nice house (although if you listen to her I may as well be living in some squat) and most importantly have brought up (with the help of my DH!) 2 wonderful DC who although I moan they don't do enough to help are well mannered.

Best to keep at it some contact as you don't want to increase it and keep feeling like shit. I used to think my dad was ok when I was younger. Then realized it was because he worked away. Once he changed jobs and was home all the time I soon clicked he was just as bad.

Hello everyone, I think I've posted on here once or twice. My parents have always been massively controlling, eg mother criticising my looks and behaviour from a small child, father never satisfied with the academic side of things. They're the same with my sisters.

I've cut & pasted this from a thread I started horrible parents : A couple of years ago they cut one of my sisters out their lives, and out of their will. They've decided they like her again, and have cut my other sister off. My father rang me up to tell me about this. I told him, in a measured way, that I think that's out of order, and to think about what he's doing. He responded like a petulant child, and put the phone down. I always used to be the one who nodded and smiled to keep them off my back.

Both of my siblings were cut off at different times. this was after they'd travelled abroad to see the parents, due to worry about father's ill health. My father has said at different times they're after his money.

After a couple of horrible phone calls from them (all they wanted to do was slag off my sister), I emailed them to say that for now, I'd like to keep contact to email only. They've ignored this, and they've been ringing at least 3 times a week. I don't pick up, but send them an email reminding them they can contact me via email. And this was after I'd had an email from my mother chronologically listing my failings in life.

A few days ago I got an email from my father stating he would be writing me out of his will. I couldn't give a flying fuck about his stupid money, it hasn't brought him or my mother happiness. All they've done is save, save, save and tell us how many sacrifices they'd made for us. I encouraged them to use it themselves, enjoy it, I have everything I need. But they wouldn't know joy if it bit them on the arse. They don't even like each other. Their marriage is joyless. DH has a theory that folk like to spread their own misery around to others.

So, this just confirms I did the right thing to go limited contact, right? I mean to have cut all of your 3 children out of your will, not normal?

Sorry this is so long. i keep formulating replies to that email in my head, so better to get it out here I guess. And I'm sorry this is all me, me, me.

Your DH is a wise man. Perhaps that's why my parents are the way they are and want to pass the misery on to only one of their children (me)

Their behaviour is most certainly not normal.

As I said to ZoRay concentrate on the good things in your life.

Thanks makemefeelstressed So you get ALL the misery siphoned off to you.

I keep getting the fucking rage every time I think about it all. But I keep repeating, just because they say it didn't happen, doesn't make it so.

My family was dysfunctional too, but it wasn't really their fault. My Dad's brother was killed in Singapore during WW2 (1942) and my Dad came back badly damaged both physically and mentally after serving in Burma. He died in 1958 so I don't remember him as I was only 3 when this happened. Then my Mum got so ill with assorted eating disorders that she was sent into a mental hospital and I was put in foster care until I was 16.

I've been trying to write a Mumsnet blog about those days before I forget too much of it!

Fostered in the 1960s and 1970s

Hello Rubbish

I've been cut out of the will too

We can start a club!

When I discovered this I was told that I shouldn't have seen it -
Because it was my fault for seeing it - clearly. Not theirs for being vindictive

Bizarrely it still took me several years to realise this - and the rest of it -wasn't normal behaviour and go NC

No advice I'm afraid

Just wanted to let you know you're not alone!

Feel like crying at the moment (not helped by the amount of wine I have drunk!). Sent an email last weekend in which amongst other things I said that my DS had got 2 x Distinction * for his first year at college. Not a word from my parents.

My DS came down this evening and said 'did you tell them about my grades' so they obviously haven't text him direct with a 'well done'. I lied and said I hadn't but would tell them this weekend. I am going to mention it again by making a bit of a joke about bu saying his Certificate has come through so I know he isn't lying. Amazingly enough they managed to e-mail within 24 hours about something else that was quite unimportant

Hi

tell your parents what they deserve to know which is absolutely nothing. if they cannot be bothered then do the same. I would not write to them again and tell them yet again about your sons achievements (well done to him btw) because they are not interested. they know and they cannot be bothered.

tell your son the truth, do not lie to him about your parents lack of interest. It is neither his fault or yours that they are like this.

If you ever wonder if your wisdom and experience have an effect, may I tell you that it does. Not only have you given me the courage to speak up, but also the words.

At almost 70 years old I have finally spoken up for myself. So many times I have read threads and wished that Mumsnet had been around when I was raising my family. The thread that has affected me most is this one. It would have given me the courage to stand up to my mother. She is 94 now in a care home and I am still running around after her.

I am also the sole carer for her husband, a pig headed stubborn man who is always right.

This week he has had me and my husband doing things for him again. We spent all day yesterday with him and felt we and finally persuaded him, regarding his electrical item. Last night he rang me and told me to call the electric company and I said,

"I am not engaging with this. We have told you what we think and if you still disagree that is fine".

Normally I would have promised to visit again, find myself embarrassed by speaking to someone on his behalf, and not heard the last of it for weeks.

Thank you all for not making me feel guilty.

Attila I will tell him this week. What's made it worse is that they were telling a family member about it and how well he's done.

florentina Well done! It gives me hope.

florentina what a lovely, strong post. You've given me hope too.

Hi, this is a repost. Glad I found this thread:

It was my birthday two weeks ago and my mother called me. We live in different countries and I maintain very little contact because I find her toxic. She's actually one of the major reasons behind my decision to live abroad - I wanted to be as far away from her as possible.

I don't know why she is that way. She's probably not the worst mother in the world, after all, I turned out fine. But growing up she always undermined me, downplayed my achievements, even once called me a "pig" because I was fat. I had it good though - she basically f'd up my older brother's life. Physically and emotionally abused him from childhood to adolescence, no wonder he grew up with anger management issues. I know I shouldn't blame her because my brother is an adult but I really feel like she's partly to blame for how messed up my brother's life turned out. When my brother was having a difficult time with his marriage, all she did was add fuel to the fire. Now that my brother seems to have found a new woman (and she gave birth on my bday, too) my mother turns up her nose at the woman because she doesn't think she's fit for my older brother. Of course it's not like my brother is a saint but I really think all the physical (she used to beat him up growing up!) and emotional abuse greatly contributed to how he turned up!

She's very superficial.She also always brags about how people say she looks so young - she does, actually. But then she follows it up by saying horrible things like, this person or that person is ugly.

She has never encouraged me. Fortunately I developed some sort of thick skin over the years that's why I don't need her approval much. When I passed my licensure exam, she was happy because, hey, now she has a daughter who's a doctor, but told me I should just look for an old dress to wear to the oath-taking ceremony. It might sound shallow, but it hurt me a bit. I was broke though (right out of med school) so I couldn't afford to buy my own dress. My friend found it weird, especially since she and everyone we know got treated to new dresses, celebrations, trips abroad, etc. and my mother wouldn't even buy me a new dress. When my younger brother was getting married, she said it was going to be a low-key thing, we're just going to the judge and just wear anything I have, so I came home (I lived far away then) and then found out it's a big catered event, and she had two gowns made for the occasion. And everyone was dressed up and I wore an old yellow dress and looked, well, very out of place especially since the motiff was pink! Which of course she didn't tell me.

Anyway so I showed her our pictures here (I'm 40 pounds less now than when she last saw me) and she commented, "ok now you look like me." It's probably a harmless comment, but with the incidents in the past, it was like she's telling me now you look alright, you were horrible before.

Then we talk about my life here, and I told her I am planning to retrain and study again and she said, you're so old, you'd be 40 when you finish. You're going to waste your education. Then I explained, but it's not as if I have a choice. I explained my situation, and told her my classmate is going to do the same thing because our qualifications don't transfer readily. She asked, what's the job of my classmate's husband. I told her. She said, how much does he earn? I said, "probably as much as my husband". And she was like, "is that all?" with a tone of disappointment and a bit of disgust.

I'm just really annoyed at how toxic my mother is! I mean, who is she to talk about my husband that way? It's not as if she's supporting us! If anything she even "stole" money from me because when my dad passed away, she gave everything my dad left to her favourite, my younger brother. My dad left a lucrative business, insurance claims, money in the bank, assets etc and I (and my older brother) got nothing. And I didn't complain, didn't say a word and just thought well, I'm educated, I can fend for myself.

I know I'm babbling, I'm sorry. Just blowing off steam. I know it's not nice to call my mother names but she's really selfish and narcissistic.

Hi all, just had a visit from my mother, haven't seen her in a few weeks ( LC since christmas) when I peeped out the window and realised it was her knocking on door I was going to pretend I wasn't there and hide, but then felt guilty (more fool me) so opened door and pretended I was in bed, made her cup of coffee she thankfully only stayed 15 min but feeling very down since just wish so much for a normal mother daughter relationship.

She never once asked how I was ( im 21 weeks pregnant) she still has never asked me why I have limited contact and why I don't call to see them any more!! I have stopped going to family functions and I don't regret any of this!! It sure beats pretending im part of a normal family and listening to all their sniping and bitchiness and the favouritism but just feel sad that it came to this

I'm doing a lot of reading on toxic families and i think stirring up all the memories isn't helping me, I finally confided in a friend about a lot of the things that happened me as a child ( the being ignored by my father etc) and she couldn't believe it and she couldn't believe my mother did nothing to stop it.
I also found out that my friends mother had guessed things weren't great in my family as had my other friends mother's and they all made a huge effort with me ( I remember them giving me lifts for exams and bringing me to the bus for college) they just knew I was treated as a outsider in my family, I'm actually embarrassed by all this and I am remembering little things my friends parents did for me,
I know I have to move on from all this and concentrate on my own family but I'm just wondering did any one else find it hard to forget and move on? I'm feeling so angry that my parents treated me like this my brothers ( the goldenchildren) never had to wait for a bus to go to college my parents actually used to drive them ( a 3 hour drive for one sibling) where I had to rely on lifts from my friends parents!! I know that sounds petty but I remembering little things

golden rose, it does not sound petty. The great thing about this thread is that you can say that sort of thing and people understand.

I can remember so many evil, wicked things that were said to me, but if ever I told them to others they two would think it nothing. It is the constant chip, chip, chip that demoralises you.

When I went to get my wedding dress, aged 19 , I took mother, furture Mil and SiL with me. At the time I had very bad acne on my back. We all went into the changing room together to try on the dress. On the way home on the train she said to my future MiL. Did you see the look of revolsion on that woman's face when Florentina got undressed. Then turning to me said I would be too ashamed to get married if I thought my husband was going to see that. Another day totally ruined.