"But we took you to Stately Homes!" Survivors of Dystfunctional Families

[Meerka]

It's May 2015, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
March 2015

Dec 14- March 15

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

More helpful links:

Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Homecoming
Will I ever be good enough?
If you had controlling parents
When you and your mother can't be friends
Children of the self-absorbed
Recovery of your inner child

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Springy Hugs from me.

Sadwidow has some good advice. I hope it will help you

Guess she just figured out we blocked her on FB.

Feeling so fucked up right now

I'm far from perfect but my beautiful dd has never done anything to deserve such a horrible text. Thankfully, it was only sent to me so dd will never see it.

So sorry I haven't commented on the other posts. I will have a read of the related threads and come back when I feel up to it. I feel deflated and just utterly lost.

This is my first posting on this thread but I've suspected for a long time that my mother has NPD. My family have this idea that I'm unreasonable, unloveable and try to control me. When I was a teenager, if I ever did something that she didn't want me to do, like dye my hair, she would manipulate other family members to get me to back down. I feel now that I've never been in control of my own life. Is it normal to feel this way? I feel so screwed up atm.

Forty that came from your mother? Wowser. Put it in a safe place and look at if if you are ever having doubts about your decision to go nc.

Watcha it can be a revelation (painful but also something of a relief) to find out that it may not be 'you' that has the problem after all.

I think the main thing to remember is that you cannot change other people's behaviour, only your own.

Have you sought any help, eg counselling?

Hi forty - just a a quick post but the thing that stands out to me about the text (apart from that it's horrible, and crazy how quickly she'll go NC with you) but she's holding your dd accountable for her own actions. She's not said anything about you keeping your dd from her or how could you poison her against her which are both pretty common responses to NC where grandchildren are involved. Instead, your dd who is a child is also a bitch who was an active part of this and is cut off. Use that for strength going forwards. That text was addressed to both of you so she intended your dd to see it. You've protected your dd from someone who would abuse and cut off a child for doing nothing.

Forty If your mother can send a text like that you are best rid of her. As is your DD.

Watcha It is hard when you finally realize how your family are. It doesn't stop when you leave home/have children either. It wasn't your fault although it will still be emotional.

I knew it was coming to be honest, I just didn't think it would hurt so much. Not only because it was nasty and directed at us both but also because I feel so bad that I've hurt her
LH that's what I don't understand. Dd has always been the apple of her eye. She didn't go straight to assuming I had blocked contact but that dd made the decision herself. It surprised me how quickly she could go from 'loving, proud GM' to calling dd a bitch and saying to go fuck herself.
I think I'm grieving but not sure. I'm going to block it out today anyway because I know I don't have the headspace to deal with it all.

Yes, I think grieving is about right. The loss of a person you thought you had in your life. The prospect of life ahead of you without them. Its ok to be sad about that.

Hi this is my first post on MN although I'm a longterm lurker, asking for advice on this thread is my reason for joining.

Sorry this will be long...

Today I phoned and reported what I believe to be the emotional abuse of a child in my extended family, briefly the mother of the child has suffered depression for a while and therapy and ADs don't seem to be helping, she constantly shouts and swears at her 3 year old and has progressed to threatening to call SS to have them take the child away and says to the child she doesn't want it any more. Child is suffering anxiety and displaying behavioural issues and wetting themselves as well as worrying about why mummy is sad and saying sorry for making mummy so unhappy. The dad is working a lot to pay the bills and takes over as soon as hes home but is at the end of his rope trying to cope with the mum and is worried about losing the child if she does call SS.

On the phone I was told they would consider this to require SS involvement so I am anticipating this to happen, and while I feel I have done the right thing putting the emotional well-being of the child first I'm absolutely dreading the idea of the rest of the family realising it was me who's reported it.

I haven't given my name etc and its discussed throughout the family so technically several people could be responsible but there's a good chance they'll think it is me could well end up me being made even more of a black sheep than I already am

Hi all, just a flying visit.

Forty I'm so sorry you had to read that text.

Understanding I think you did absolutely the right thing by reporting. Absolutely and utterly. It feels very sad that this could be discussed throughout the family and yet nobody else has done anything, but also typical of toxic families where anything abusive gets swept under the rug.

The father is equally at fault. He is enabling the behaviour. He needs to remove the mother from the home until she is capable of parenting in a non-abusive fashion. Unlikely, but it's what should happen.

Is the mother behaving like this in front of other people? I'm glad it's come out, because with 3-year-olds it's fairly unusual for anyone to find out about this sort of thing unless it's overheard, but also horrified that she thinks it's okay.

The mum puts up posts on fb occasionally saying how her child would be better off without her and she's struggling so much but no one will help and offer to take the child for the weekend to give her a break, but then there's also the posts of them out as a family having a good time which I know are just snapshots in time before another outburst...and then there's also the posts where any time she does get someone to babysit by lunch she's having wine...

When we see them she has what can only be described as a tantrum if the attention isn't on her and will stomp about, start sniffing loudly and is cross towards the child and gives snappy one word grunts, all while the partner runs around after the child and asking the mum what he can do to make her cheer up. Everyone sort of rolls eyes and Tut's afterwards about her behaviour but its almost accepted she's always behaved like a brat and stropped if she doesn't have everything her own way so no one wants to say anything.

It was while on the phone she yelled at the child she didn't even want her anymore, when challenged and told she cant say things like that she hung up.

To be honest throughout the family there's been all sorts of abuse that gets brushed under the rug, so I don't think people want to start labeling it as they would be admitting things they did themselves was wrong....its all a bloody huge mess and having grown up trying to come to terms with half the things that happened to me I'm determined not to allow another child grow up in such a toxic environment, hence why I'll be blamed and made an outcast for daring to cause a problem or draw attention to anything within the family.

I've been working through the toxic parents book and its all there and I'm trying to learn how to respond and protect myself but reading it and doing it are huge leaps apart I know once I say a word I'll be made out to be a liar\trouble maker\it was my fault\i was just a naughty child etc

Understanding Well done for contacting ss.

she has always behaved like a brat Everyone has allowed this and you don't automatically grow up because you have children.

I'm determined not to allow another child grow up in such a toxic environment This is why we are so different with our own children as we don't want history to repeat itself.

Filling heck Springy I am so sorry for what you are going through! As if being severely ill is not enough for you, you have to go through it without your children. I feel like I coulde cry for you. You must be an immensely strong person to carry on the way you are doing. I think your top priority should be concentrating on yourself and getting better. Rest as much as you need to.

loveheartoh Absolutely well done on sending that text message, that must have taken a lot of courage.

Forty holy crap. That is an absolutely horrendous message! I'm genuinely gobsmacked that she could involve your DD in your decision to go L/NC. It is absolutely heartbreaking when they turn on your kids, isn't it? So much more painful than anything they could say to you. Hugs and take care of yourself.

Watcha I agree with PP that counselling is a good idea for you. I've had three rounds since I was 17 and know for sure that I will have more in the future. It helps you to make sense of not only your past but the people in your life and how best to deal with them.

Understanding you did exactly the right thing. I reported a relative of mine to SS a while back and got a huge backlash. But I know I did the right thing for those kids, when everyone else was just gossiping.

So after being hideous and passive aggressive to me since our argument last Sunday, she rang me this weekend and asked me to pick her up from the supermarket. Then asked me to lend her some money! Knowing I'm moving in a couple of weeks. Things are still strained but she is being nicer to me. So now I'm back to thinking maybe NC is not a good idea? Aghrr, why do I get sucked back in so easily?!

Apologies for the ridiculous typos.

Thanks everybody, I'm looking to have counselling in the next month. I had an incident on Sunday when I did Race for Life, I seemed to be the only person who was greeted at the finish line by grumpy faces and everyone else had people hugging them etc. It's almost as if I have to be happy for them when they achieve stuff but they can't be happy for me. .

Just popping in for some support. I've posted here before and lurked for many years. My narc mum and enabler dad are coming over tomorrow for a 'meeting'. Basically to tell me everything I do wrong. There have been over 40 years worth of misdemeanours - I'm sure my first ever boyfriend that I split up with 20 years ago will get a mention in terms of my crimes against them.
I have been trying to go LC for a few months but am now about to be hauled up for being 'distant'. They have arranged to take me out to lunch tomorrow so I will be on my own and no support from DP. My intention is to remain cool calm and civil however I know my mum will be pushing all my buttons, being confrontational and antagonistic and I'm already feeling sick and anxious. Her behaviour over the years has been staggering and I can't believe how normal I am to the point when I sometimes wonder if I was adopted.
Any coping strategies for not reacting and appearing detatched and happy etc? Dodging the grenades is going to be tough and I'm determined not to have a glass of wine with lunch either. Thank you all in advance!

innerturmoil why have you agreed to meet them?

I have fallen out with my mother several times over the past couple of months. She likes to send nasty little emails, or nice emails with a "poor me" comment at the end. Generally I ignore, but the last couple have arrived at a bad time and I've responded in kind. Typically altho it's fine for her to make snide comments she doesn't like receiving them.

This time I thanked her for her non-existent support over a pointless row with another family member. She has sent another really nasty message - which I'm ignoring - which ends with why do I hate her so much. I was so tempted to go back with "do you want a list?"

I don't actually hate her; I would just like it if just once she could give me a bit of support. She likes to tell her friends how much help she gives me, but it's all show. I'm getting a lot of "I did my best but obviously I wasn't a very good mother" - damn right she wasn't. Everything is always about her. I'd actually just like her to stop contacting me and leave me alone. The 6 weeks of no contact following the last row were very calm.

Ober

I am worn down really - my Dad tried to reach out with an e-mail saying they didn't want to lose touch with me or the kids. Our last conversation I basically said that I couldn't cope with always being told how disappointing I was too them. They counteracted that by saying I was just too sensitive. There have been years of rows recriminations, walking on egg shells, pointed silences etc. Common denominator is her - she has had issues with other family members. I get it worst - only daughter and youngest child? I dunno.

I agree Ober - it will always be about your mum, not you, so don't ever think you can change that. I can't bear the little snide comments. If I pick up on them - there is either 'I'm joking!' or total denial it was said. Or I'm attacking her by picking her up on her vile comments. Oh fun. Have already burst into tears in front of the kids today - not my finest hour. My eldest has twigged why I'm weird even though we've never spoken about it in so many words. She's also been at the receiving end of some pretty appalling behaviour from my mum.

Roll on tomorrow evening when it will all be over. Then I might just have a glass of wine.

I am not good at supporting on multi-OP threads because I can't keep all the scenarios in my head when I work tirelessly elsewhere.

However, I wanted to respond to Understandingthepast

I too have used NSPCC to report a neighbour who put a 4 year old into the back garden because she wouldn't eat her tea. The father kept opening the back door and yelling, "and you will NOT have a home or a bed until you eat that tea". I asked if I could take the 4year old child over night to give them some space - the mother asked for permission, and the dad said NO.

At 10.50pm my heart was broken with the child's sobbing- and the Father told me to stop looking over the fence and to 'get a life'!

I phoned the NSPCC... but the neighbours figured out it was me from the SS letter. The mother still speaks to me, but the controlling Dad has made my life hell for 5 years

Has that stopped me reporting? NO!

I have reported a high-profile case recently. I will never, ever, ever turn my back on children who MAY need support and rescue. It is not my job to work out whether they meet the criteria for removal from the home - it is my job as a caring adult to report concerns when children are not given a safe, caring, loving, nourishing enviromnent.

SW x