"But we took you to Stately Homes!" Survivors of Dystfunctional Families

[Meerka]

It's May 2015, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
March 2015

Dec 14- March 15

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

More helpful links:

Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Homecoming
Will I ever be good enough?
If you had controlling parents
When you and your mother can't be friends
Children of the self-absorbed
Recovery of your inner child

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Fiona & florentina Their comments are always so negative. No well done for retraining. No what fun is was to go wedding dress shopping. My parents can find something to say about anything

golden I think it is lovely that your friends parents tried to help although I do get what you mean about embarrassing.

Golden rose

I think the current low contact will ultimately lead to no contact.

Congratulations on your pregnancy???? . I would seriously consider limiting all her access to your child when he/she is born, your mother was not a good parent to you and will likely become a toxic grandparent to your child given any opportunity. You will need to protect your most precious resource from such a malign influence. I would not give her any access to your child.

Rubbish icons on IPad, that should have been a smile so here is the proper smile :).

Am back from sunnier climes in a week so am not at my usual computer, this IPad takes some getting used to.

I know I will have to keep my son/daughter away from my mother but i just feel so bad and guilty. I know that sounds so stupid after all I have said about her and my father! Part of me just hopes they will change but I know they won't.

sorry I'm just having a bad day and feeling all hormonal ill be stronger tomorrow!!
I have to keep telling myself no matter what I do they won't change, nothing is ever good enough and I'm always going to be the blacksheep. The favourtism has already started with the the grandchildren and I know my children won't be their favourites so I need to protect my children.

As I have said before mine aren't the favourite and mine worked it our at quite an early age. My mum would blame it on me living away but as far as I am concerned that is no excuse. Knowing more about routines etc is ok but treating them differently is not

I am going to post my story but just feel too sad today,but need to get it out
Thanks all

Hello everyone!

I used to post quite a lot 2-3 years ago about my toxic narcissistic parents who I estranged myself from (mostly).

An update - a few months ago my father started declining (chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, alcoholism, morphine abuse) & went into a hospice a few weeks ago. Guilt took hold so I went to visit him twice. Once with my brother (my dad's son he abandoned as a baby who found us last year) so my Dad was on his best behaviour. I went again 2 weeks later with my 5yo DD & when I went in his room he said "have you brought me a bottle of vodka?" I replied that I hadn't so he said " go & get me one!" I refused to he snarled "Miss maiden name or whatever name you're going by these days, your bottom is absolutely enormous, you need to lose weight!" I walked over to his bed, looked him in the eye & said "it's very unkind to criticise other people's appearance" so he said, " you may as well get lost then!". I left & never returned.

He died last week, leaving my mother in a housing association bungalow with £20k of credit card & bank account debts, a motability car with bottles of vodka rolling around the floor, & no means to pay for his funeral. He inherited over £150k from my grandmothers a few years ago & had spent it on booze & left my brother & I to arrange their funerals & didn't bother to attend himself.

He is to be cremated at the expense of the local authority early one morning this week without a coffin or a funeral or family present because my brothers & I are unwilling or able to pay for a funeral & all his "wonderful" boozing buddies & women he had affairs with are nowhere to be seen funnily enough.

What goes around comes around.

When you are ready Meanandlow we will be here to hold your hand and remember we do not judge

themidwife I am a firm believer of what goes around comes around. Know it is early days since his death but hope soon things will get easier.

Thank you

Hi new to this thread. I've read a few short posts. I started a thread about my "DM" as I think she's void of emotion towards me, except hatred. She lies about/ too me & puts on an act like she's a saint. That couldn't be further from the truth.

Should I just read the posts to gain perspective/help?

I am considering going NC with her but it's very complicated. She blackmails me a lot.

Hi yoga.

I found it helped to read at least the current thread (it is an ongoing thread which once full starts as a new one) as there was advice but it also helped to understand that I wasn't the only one and it isn't normal for parents to behave in this way.

When she say blackmail do you mean the sort 'I won't be around for much longer'

You need to do what you feel comfortable with. How near to her do you? I live a few hours away so can be LC without any difficulty. The DC have helped as they have more clubs etc as they got older which took up time

Hi all, I am so sorry to just jump in, I have got to get this out.

I did start a thread last week about a situation between DH and I and the ILs.
I have also posted on this thread last year whilst I was pregnant about my ILs too and how difficult it is as we rent a house from them and live next door.

To cut a long story short I have played straight into MILs hands. We had an argument and because no one else was there to witness what was said she has gone to town and lied saying I have been shouting and screaming at her, called her a fucking bitch etc.

Straight after our argument DH had a message left on his mobile from FIL saying that I'd been shouting, f-ing and blinding, calling MIL names etc and summoning him to 'talk' about it.

DH did not let himself be summoned and just ignored the message. A few days later he had another message from FIL saying that DH was playing games as he has left messages for him and DH hasn't got back to him. FIL then said that I have got a problem and I have to go for counselling and apologise for my behaviour. If I don't then I can't live here anymore. He said he felt sorry for our DCs and for DH.

DH was furious at this message and went and had it out with his parents, his mother kept shouting at him to fuck off and low and behold he got nowhere with them.

Since then we have not spoken to them.

Since the argument between MIL and I which was just over 2 weeks ago the IL's have been playing silly buggers. Silly things like putting things in places so it makes it awkward for me to reverse my car out of the drive, blocking the pathway so we can't access our chicken house, dumping the kids bikes in our garden when they have always previously been kept in their barn and every time I go to work or drop DD1 at work (when DH isn't here) I come back to find that the gate to our garden has been closed and bolted so I have to get out the car and open it to be able to get the car in...........stuff like that.
FIL also owns some of the equipment that DH needs for work and DH has to now leave a note in ILs porch the day before he wants to use something.

On the thread I started, pretty much everyone said they thought we needed to move and find somewhere else. Both DH and I were reluctant at first as we have put so much time, effort and money into this house plus we didn't think we could afford to move but now we have both realised that yes we do definitely need to get away from these people and we can afford to move, although we do need to save as hard as we can for a deposit on a new rental.

Also on the thread I started last week I got a lot of flaming from a few people who said that I was defeatist and that I just wanted to have my cake and eat it.
This really isn't the case. We trusted these people. We stupidly gave them a second chance after they were so awful to us before. DH had previously gone NC with his parents for 3 years (during which time he had a breakdown) until 5 years ago when we had our 1st DC together (I have 2 DC from previous marriage).

These people prayed on our vulnerabilities and we were so stupid and naïve we went along with it.

I just don't know what to do or who to turn to. We need help but I have no idea from who. I am NC with my own toxic mother and NC with my step father. Is this me? I seem to be the common factor here don't I?

I have been thinking about getting back in contact with my stepdad as he and my mother have been separated for nearly 3 years, he has tried to get in contact with me after the birth of our 8mo but I said no at the time as I felt I had enough on my plate. He is the only person I can think of that could offer us some sound advice. What do I do?

This is such a mess.

I think we are now being shown who's house it is that we live in by the ILs coming into our garden whenever they feel like it. God knows if they let themselves into our home when we are out.

They are basically showing us they can do what they like and when they like, which is what they have always done I suppose but they have stepped it up a gear and there is an incident at least everyday now.

We have a tenancy agreement so surely they know they can't just help themselves whenever they feel like it???................but then again who the hell enforces it?

We are trying to ignore it and not let them know we are bothered by it. I feel trapped in my own home.

Are they trying to bully us into submission? Do they think that this is the way to get back their sons respect and trust?

Mampam, I have had a couple of experiences with bad landlords like that. You could try going to the CAB and asking for advice, writing letters complaining, (I would stick with written communication myself since they're being verbally abusive). Make your point, request they respect your privacy as tenants , stick to the formal rights of tenants and don't let it get personal.

I wouldn't get back in touch with your nc stepdad purely with a panic cry for help - why are you nc with him? Use the formal rights of tenants under the law, use the formal advice from the CAB, try not to get personal matters and the problem of having a roof crossed again.

But ultimately most of the power in a landlord/ tenant relationship is on the side of the landlord imo. "Do they think this is the way to get back their sons respect and trust?" I don't know, but make sure they don't get it again. Depending on these toxic people for living space is a sure recipe for problems imo.

The bit that got misses off, is, I would put all efforts into leaving. Having a personal relationship, and a toxic one at that, complicates things enormously. The problem of having invested in the house, yes, unfortunately that is just a loss when you're a tenant.

Hi They the blackmail is more with my kids really. I've depended on her to much in the past for Childcare & she knows I can't work if I don't have Childcare. So she knows I'll need to come running back to her. However in the last few years I haven't needed her as much so she's been nicer to me (realing me in, it's always the same patterns, horrible, I back away, she gets nice again, I start seeing her again, she's not as bad, I think she's trying to change then she gets shitty again)

This pattern usually lasts about 18 months then it's gets to the stage where I have to get away from her.

We live very close to her, we bought a house on a new development 20 miles away from her & three months later she moved into a house (rented) on the same development!! She didn't even tell us until she landed with the movers and needed a hand unpacking

So at the min we are considering selling our house and moving back to DHs home town.

Thanks for the advice NoTech. I had to go NC with my stepdad as he was married to my mother. They have been separated for nearly 3 years now.

Todays incident was FIL in our garden painting our gate.

mampam I saw your thread last week but wasn't sure if it was you. I remember your situation from previous SH threads.

I agree with NTB about getting advice from CAB. Realistically, how soon do you think you could save enough to get somewhere else? Have you checked to see if you'd be entitled to housing benefit?

yoga hello, another case which sounds like a house move is in order! Do you think you would feel strong enough to go NC completely this time?

It's amazing how many of us end up moving to get away from toxic parents, but sometimes it takes a few goes. I moved from south to north in my late twenties, then made the mistake of moving back last year. Having my mum on my doorstep again really made me realize how bad our relationship was, and how many compromises I was making in order to retain her love. I've now gone NC and haven't seen her since Xmas. Also planning to move back north in the next couple of years, although I'll really miss my sister.

yoga I would be beside myself if my mum moved to the same county never mind the same development. I am safe as she will never move away from the favourite one. A move sound a very good idea

mampam You need to get the hell out of there. I have had a re-read but can't see (have been drinking whether you have a tenancy agreement in place with them. If so, then get it out read it and take it to CAB or shelter for advice.

I know you have said that they have bought equipment that your DH needs for work so you need advice on that side as well. Would you be able to claim benefits if you left and couldn't use the equipment or can he have some claim on the equipment

Hi Pocket I think I have to go NC this time because I've really had enough of her behaviour & my DF enables her. Usually I brush it off & stop myself from thinking about it but I can't do that this time. I am a strong person and never breakdown but with this recent episode I've had panick attacks and feel really down & exhausted & hurt (crying) which I've never felt before. So I think it's for the best for so many reasons. I haven't spoken to her now in a few days but she's constantly going past my house glaring in & I know she's waiting on me to come crawling back & apologising to her because she's the queen & she never says sorry. This will be my 8th!!! Move away from her you can probably tell I've been sucked in a lot.

hi Mampam just read back on you story. Sounds familiar, it's really tiring isn't it? My DM has that type of control over me & DH as she gave us some money towards the deposit of our first house & never let's me or anyone else forget it. Now that she's living a few doors down from us, she also uses that as a way of controlling/blackmailing us. For example my cooker broke & I used hers once a day to cook a casserole until the new one came. When I disagreed with something she did & told her about it I was banned from using her cooker "Don't be coming into this house using my cooker, your a useless cunt, get your own cooker, I'll lock the door so you can't get in again". In our last house she ordered new carpets for the bedrooms because she didn't like the colour of the ones I'd out down 6mths earlier. Then fell out with me when the fitters came & I wouldn't let them in! How these people think they are normal is beyond me.

Hi Mampam I read your other thread, and good for you and your DH for deciding to move. Even if it takes a while to get the funding organised at least you have a plan now, and it's great that you agree on this and that he is supportive of you and not taking their side.
I think it would be unwise to contact other toxic relatives at this time. Can you continue posting here for advice instead? You will get so much support from MN.

Thank you so much for your support and advice.

The decision has been taken out of our hands now anyway as we have been asked to leave.
DH was handed 2 letters today from each of his parents. FIL said it was best if we 'went our seperate ways'. The tone of both letters was that it is all my fault, I twist things and take everything the wrong way, they love DH, he can carry on using the work stuff and he should stop using DC 3 & 4 as weapons.
MIL had written something along the lines of "I know you'll leave and won't say goodbye".

They have tried to f@ck with DH's head and it's worked. He feels guilty and is in turmoil. He was nearly in tears earlier on when he read the letters.

The way the letters were written anyone would think that they were saints and I was the spawn of satan himself.

What on earth has all this intimidating stuff been about for the last 2.5 weeks? Do they think DH hasn't noticed? Do they think it's normal? Why have they been like that about work stuff yet in the letter state that he can carry on using it?

Are they so deluded that they think that once we move out of here they will have got rid of me, DH will come back here everyday to fetch stuff for work and they can see GC whenever they want?

Forgot to say:

Yoga no wonder you want to sell up and move away.

Been trying to catch up on the thread as not been on here for a while. Things had been going smoothly - nc with my mum for sometime (except for her sending me a text on my birthday) and feeling good about it at last.

However last week or so I've felt really shit beacuse I think she has finally managed to turn my younger db against me. He is the golden child (wasn't in his younger years but is now) and is 14 yrs younger than me. We've still maintained a relationship, met up with our partners and kids etc at times and he spoke of not wanting to get involved in mine and dm's 'feud'. I think he thinks I'll just 'get over it'. Anyway dm recently brought them a new car, is buying a house for them to rent off her cheaply and basically she has led db and his wife into position whereby they are trapped by her I suppose, need her financially. I've messaged/texted him in last week or so asking how he is and also asking him a question about something regarding band he plays in - i know he's recieved the messages but he hasn't replied. I think my mum has been slowly drip feeding him to turn against me and my dsis (shes also not heard from him). I feel really hurt but at same time feel sorry for my db that my dm is so involved in his life (she's round there spending time with my s-i-l a few times a week - whom I think she has also given money to to invest in her new business venture).

I feel reluctant to ring him - but perhaps I should (although he's unlikely to answer my call) so see if my concerns are true. I feel so sad and bloody angry.

mampam You might want to ring CAB or Shelter and get advice on the letter as I'm not sure it'll count as a notice letter. Do you think you'll be able to scrape enough cash together to move? Have they even given a date of termination of tenancy? The problem is that in most council areas in the south (which I think I remember is where you are), you will not get local authority housing until the point where you've been evicted.

I imagine their behaviour over the last 2 weeks was designed to intimidate DH into toeing the line and getting rid of troublesome old you, or to intimidate you to the point where you'd leave him. It hasn't worked, so now they're hauling out the big guns. The "you can use the work equipment" is designed to give a semblance of reasonableness, which will undoubtedly be gone back on at the first opportunity.

worry sorry to hear this. I think your guess is probably correct - and it sounds like she's really thrown everything at DB to try to get him on side - and under her control. You might reach out to both him and his SIL and say "Hey, no taking sides needed, but if you want to talk then you know where I am."